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Default Jul 16, 2019 at 02:53 AM
  #21
I would like to apologize to @resurgam and @Divine. Resurgam: I think what happened was I missed your point. I thought you were chastizing the OP about not doing something as if it was her fault and I missed the point about her wanting suggestions. In fact I think I glossed over the part about her wanting suggestions and went right to my gut and shot from the hip so I am truly sorry. Divine: I am really sorry I made you feel this way and I certainly do not want you to think I would go off on you for posting whatever you want. I think somehow I was triggered and I will have to self examine about why that happened. @resurgam: You are right. I would say something. In fact I would be the dummy who would say something and get involved before getting the authorities so I do not know why I acted the way I did. I have gotten involved before and had someone threaten me and maybe thats why I reacted that way. @Divine, I hope you accept my apology.

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Default Jul 16, 2019 at 10:11 AM
  #22
Grrrrrrrrrrrr I’m sending hugs

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Default Jul 16, 2019 at 10:13 AM
  #23
no harm, no foul, no problem! thank you for the apology!

theoretical, I am sorry you have had a bad experience with law enforcement. you are right not all cops are bad ones, most in fact are honest , hard working officers who want the most safest, positive response to their calls. not all would respond the way those officers did..

police officers take an oath to protect and serve. it's a shame you don't have faith in them, someday you might need to call for help and I would like to think in doing so the response team you get will be on top of their game.

I wonder when that incident happened...if it was recently or years back. I find it hard to believe that given the rape laws now any department would respond in that manner...a college police force years ago, maybe. (there are plenty of "urban myths" like that..NOT saying your friends incident was).

no one should ever feel they can not report an assault . no one. ever. it should be professionally handled and investigated to the fullest.
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Default Jul 16, 2019 at 10:56 AM
  #24
Not saying that the person who said that police encouraged her not to press charges was lying, but if no one was there who really knows what was said. Sounds fishy to me. But I wasn’t there so I don’t know. I had some strange things said to me by the police but that wasn’t in
North America. I never had a single issue with US law enforcement.

There are lots of people who hate teachers, doctors, nurses, police officers etc Usually helping professions. Government/state/county professions. Most of the time not because they had bad experience themselves but because of made up or exaggerated stories they heard or incorrect assumptions. Not saying anyone on here does that, but irl people do.

It’s a shame if people don’t report crime because they distrust authorities.
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Default Jul 16, 2019 at 11:04 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by resurgam View Post
I wonder when that incident happened...if it was recently or years back. I find it hard to believe that given the rape laws now any department would respond in that manner...a college police force years ago, maybe. (there are plenty of "urban myths" like that..NOT saying your friends incident was).
It was five years back. I'm not sure how quickly police departments change their policies, nor how quickly police officers change their perspectives on rape victims, but memories don't fade that easily. But hey, maybe *counts fingers* ... sixth time will be the charm?

To be clear, that's five different times I've had dealings with the cops of my own volition for various different reasons, one of which involved a rape, and two of which were the DV calls on my neighbors that I mentioned previously. I don't necessarily blame the cops in the DV case because there's nothing they really could've done short of making sure he didn't kill her that night. It isn't their job to play therapist to some belligerent loser. Nonetheless, the husband still
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shortly after getting out of jail, and nothing really changed. Eventually, people stopped calling, knowing it would only make it worse in the long run.

I think, like with divine's case, the cops are a useful tool to stop the worst case scenario (or punish the perp after the fact). But I think subtlety is preferred when it hasn't quite reached that level. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, one could provide information on DV shelters or CPS to the wife while the husband isn't looking. That puts the power in her hands and allows her the chance to exit with the kids safely and quietly.

Last edited by Anonymous43089; Jul 16, 2019 at 11:51 AM.. Reason: theo forgot how numbers work
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Default Jul 16, 2019 at 11:26 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by theoretical View Post
It was five years back. I'm not sure how quickly police departments change their policies, nor how quickly police officers change their perspectives on rape victims, but memories don't fade that easily. But hey, maybe *counts fingers* ... fifth time will be the charm?

To be clear, that's five different times I've had dealings with the cops of my own volition for various different reasons, one of which involved a rape, and two of which were the DV calls on my neighbors that I mentioned previously. I don't necessarily blame the cops in the DV case because there's nothing they really could've done short of making sure he didn't kill her that night. It isn't their job to play therapist to some belligerent loser. Nonetheless, the husband still
Possible trigger:
shortly after getting out of jail, and nothing really changed. Eventually, people stopped calling, knowing it would only make it worse in the long run.

I think, like with divine's case, the cops are a useful tool to stop the worst case scenario (or punish the perp after the fact). But I think subtlety is preferred when it hasn't quite reached that level. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, one could provide information on DV shelters or CPS to the wife while the husband isn't looking. That puts the power in her hands and allows her the chance to exit with the kids safely and quietly.
Good points.

But in my story nothing really got to any level above level that OP observed in the camp. The guy was just yelling, just like a guy in the camp. . No violence. It didn’t sit well with me though. What I was trying to say is you never know what’s going on
so it’s better to call.

Also police will work with CPS and DV. It’s not completely separate. Regardless which organization you call, there will be follow ups from other organization. You call CPS, they’ll inform police, you call police, they will inform CPS etc etc

I don’t see a point in giving a woman info on CPS. If you see children being abused, you call CPS yourself. I’d not rely on her protecting her children if she allows abuse. It’s not like she never heard of CPS. She likely knows if she allows abuse, kids could be removed from her home
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Default Jul 16, 2019 at 11:45 AM
  #27
it's not really an issue of her "allowing" the abuse. domestic abuse, sexual abuse, actually any type of abuse is not about blaming the victims. many times people who are caught in an abusive relationship feel trapped and hopeless and just don't "know" a way out. it is so hard to break the cycle and get free. abuse is complicated, and usually more times then not it is cyclic. as in generational.

to take that first step in addressing abuse is one of the hardest things women, men, have ever done. it is scary as hell. because as bad as abuse is , it is what you know...and the unknown is worse. she may think her kids will be removed if she calls, but what she may not know is that every state, every county has safe homes where she will be protected.

in the midst of an incident offer any help you can in a safe manner. call pd, let the professionals handle it. if it is a long term situation where children are in danger, then notify protective services. do what is best..not for your opinion, but for the children.

no one "allows" abuse....that is akin to saying a woman "allowed" herself to be raped because of her clothing, drinks etc. I think I understand what you are trying to say, but we (everyone) need to be aware of the verbiage used. that is like saying that as a child abuse victim I "allowed" myself to be raped repeatedly....did I really have that much control over the situation? no. control. pl;ays into the situation.
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Default Jul 16, 2019 at 12:22 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by divine1966 View Post
But in my story nothing really got to any level above level that OP observed in the camp. The guy was just yelling, just like a guy in the camp. . No violence. It didn’t sit well with me though. What I was trying to say is you never know what’s going on
so it’s better to call.
True, there aren't always going to be obvious signs before a murder. It sounds like you went on a gut instinct, and you're right that we shouldn't ignore our instincts when we feel something is truly off. I still don't think calling the cops should be the first resort, though.

I've got a situation now where I'm witnessing an abusive relationship develop between two of my friends. I've only got a hunch, not any hard evidence, and I doubt there's any to find (yet). Nonetheless, it has the hallmarks of what will become an abusive relationship. He's got a temper, and she tries to tip-toe around it. I'm thinking there's a way to address the underlying problems before it even becomes an issue worthy of calling the cops.

Quote:
Originally Posted by divine
I don’t see a point in giving a woman info on CPS. If you see children being abused, you call CPS yourself. I’d not rely on her protecting her children if she allows abuse. It’s not like she never heard of CPS. She likely knows if she allows abuse, kids could be removed from her home
Sure, I would definitely call CPS if kids are being abused, and probably would've called in OP's case. Well, I would probably dig into it a little more beforehand to understand what was going on, but that's likely because I'm not getting enough detail from the original post.

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Originally Posted by resurgam View Post
it's not really an issue of her "allowing" the abuse.
Have I implied this? If I did so, it was unintended.
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Default Jul 16, 2019 at 01:12 PM
  #29
Yeah my wording re “allowed” is a bit off. Sometimes it’s the language. I was mainly trying to say that this lady already knows/is aware that her kids are being mistreated so giving her info about CPS might not be as beneficial as actually calling CPS yourself. They will investigate and they are usually fast.
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Default Jul 16, 2019 at 05:34 PM
  #30
In some US states if the police come out to a domestic violence call they will arrest the one who seems to be the violent one even when NO charges are pressed.

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Default Jul 16, 2019 at 05:39 PM
  #31
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Yeah my wording re “allowed” is a bit off. Sometimes it’s the language. I was mainly trying to say that this lady already knows/is aware that her kids are being mistreated so giving her info about CPS might not be as beneficial as actually calling CPS yourself. They will investigate and they are usually fast.
Sorry if this is off topic.

Devine, the mother may not recognize that the father yelling, cursing, etc at the kids is abusive. In her world it might be "normal" (I hate that word).

To her dying day my mother never saw my father's abuse as abuse.
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Default Jul 16, 2019 at 06:26 PM
  #32
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Sorry if this is off topic.

Devine, the mother may not recognize that the father yelling, cursing, etc at the kids is abusive. In her world it might be "normal" (I hate that word).

To her dying day my mother never saw my father's abuse as abuse.
That’s entirely possible especially if she was also raised in abusive home.
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Default Jul 16, 2019 at 08:41 PM
  #33
I also found out in my case that the police do nothing about yelling/mental abuse cases. There has to be physical before they got involved....but that has been years ago. Yelling is more handled as a disturbance than something they arrest/remove for. That was just my own personal experience.

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Default Jul 17, 2019 at 10:05 AM
  #34
First off thanks for all the responses. Whether critical or not, everyone has wished to be supportive.

When you are faced with such a situation it is self-preservation that takes a hold.

I have PTSD from such abuse I faced myself both in and out of the military. I have on more than one occasion dealt with threats and physical blow-back for confronting and ratting on such predators. My thought at the time was that if I did call for someone to take action that this guy was going to be left alone while packing up his camp. I was terrified of what might ensue. Terrified. Given such panic my defense mechanism is to freeze, not take flight (which could not be done) and not fight.

I mean no offense to the good military people out there but my experience was not positive. There were the predators. Those that were not were predators by proxy - they just stood by. I learned there were ramifications for rocking the boat. This man fit the type and triggered fear as a result.

Yes, I should have done something and I am deeply upset with myself. There is no excuse I know. We all react differently in the face of such fear. My reaction is to cower. I am sorry to her and all those I have disappointed.
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Default Jul 17, 2019 at 04:54 PM
  #35
at this point we have come full circle. with posts from the original poster. maybe it's time to put an end too this discussion...we have rehashed everything and addressed some great talking points.
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Default Jul 17, 2019 at 05:42 PM
  #36
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When you are faced with such a situation it is self-preservation that takes a hold.

I have PTSD from such abuse I faced myself both in and out of the military. I have on more than one occasion dealt with threats and physical blow-back for confronting and ratting on such predators. My thought at the time was that if I did call for someone to take action that this guy was going to be left alone while packing up his camp. I was terrified of what might ensue. Terrified. Given such panic my defense mechanism is to freeze, not take flight (which could not be done) and not fight.

I mean no offense to the good military people out there but my experience was not positive. There were the predators. Those that were not were predators by proxy - they just stood by. I learned there were ramifications for rocking the boat. This man fit the type and triggered fear as a result.

Yes, I should have done something and I am deeply upset with myself. There is no excuse I know. We all react differently in the face of such fear. My reaction is to cower. I am sorry to her and all those I have disappointed.
WishfulThinker, please be kind to yourself. Beating yourself up because you froze is not fair to you. It's hard enough dealing with old shute without beating yourself over the head about it. You did what you were able AT THE TIME. Hopefully the situation never comes up again, but now you have ideas you can draw on.
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