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Default Oct 15, 2019 at 12:33 PM
  #1
Tell me I'm wrong here.

My circle of friends has a rather ****ed up dynamic that, at times, is flat-out emotionally abusive, particularly between the parties who are romantically involved. I've since been distancing myself from the circle, in part from advice I've received here and in therapy after explaining some of the shenanigans that go down, but also because I'm trying to grow as a person and not be such an abrasive and controlling asshole. On the occasions I did hang out, I tried for a more hands-off approach. I'd stand up for myself, obviously, but I otherwise refrained from fighting with anyone (as much as it pained me). But I don't feel like I'm "becoming a better person." In fact, I kinda feel like I'm becoming insecure and beginning to doubt myself in ways I never did before. I was fine with this journey of self-improvement and didn't really care much about anyone else's opinion on the matter because it would be worth it once I finally figured something out.

Until another person joined our group. Natalie was a longtime friend of the group's "Regina George," but new to the rest of us. In the few short hours she spent with our group, she immediately secured a position I normally enjoy. She not only stood up for herself, but swiftly cut down every mean-spirited "joke" and called out every instance of the normal ******** that goes on, whether it was directed at her or not. I almost gave her a round of applause.

So here's about where the narcissism flared up. As everyone was gushing about Natalie and the ease with which she handled "Regina George," I was cast into the role of "lackey." One of Regina's lackeys, no less. The *******ed horror. Not that I care what any of them think. I define myself on my own terms. And I know that it's petty and immature to be so irrationally angry over a stupid, throwaway comment. It's fine. Everything's fine. Just ****ing fine.

I don't want to be a good person anymore.
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Default Oct 15, 2019 at 01:37 PM
  #2
Do you want to keep this circle of friends? It seems like they are rude. It sounds like you do a good job of speaking up when necessary. That’s a good thing. Do you think being a “good person” means you have to ignore rude comments?
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Default Oct 15, 2019 at 02:28 PM
  #3
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Originally Posted by LilyMop View Post
Do you want to keep this circle of friends?
Most of them, yes. There are only a couple who are shamelessly rude, Regina being one, but she's also at the center of the circle. If I want to go to a social outing with any of them, she will almost certainly be there.

Quote:
Do you think being a “good person” means you have to ignore rude comments?
No, and I don't ignore rude comments, especially not those directed at me. But I have a tendency to take it way too far, stir pots and push buttons. Lately, I've just been trying to be less mean with the retorts and more diplomatic in arguments. I still think it's a good tool to have, but maybe it isn't the best one for this situation. Or maybe I'm just not any good at it.
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Default Oct 15, 2019 at 02:41 PM
  #4
Real friends laugh with you. They make fun of themselves and each other in a good natured way sometimes.

When you feel like your ‘friend’ just took a jab at you, they are not a real friend.

You can jab them right back, but that only makes the level of mean rise and leaves you feeling bad about yourself. You can stay clear of that ‘friend’. You can react by saying, ‘that’s not funny, it’s mean, and I don’t appreciate it’ and shut them down.

The rest of the group may start to see them for what they are and also shut them down, leave them out.

I had a lifelong friend.. long story. When I wouldn’t play her jabbing game and shut her down, she said she ‘refused to walk on eggshells with me’ and slandered me to everyone who knew us both saying that I have BPD, which I told her psychiatrists have told me I don’t several times... (this was a life long friend over 50 y o!). We haven’t spoken in over a year now. We had a couple mutual friends, they don’t speak to her anymore either.

My point of telling you this is that when you do shut down this frenemy, I warn you about the smear campaign. But, saving your self esteem is worth it. And the others in the group who are real friends will follow suit.

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Default Oct 15, 2019 at 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by theoretical View Post
No, and I don't ignore rude comments, especially not those directed at me. But I have a tendency to take it way too far, stir pots and push buttons. Lately, I've just been trying to be less mean with the retorts and more diplomatic in arguments. I still think it's a good tool to have, but maybe it isn't the best one for this situation. Or maybe I'm just not any good at it.

I can relate to this. When I was working really hard to stop letting people walk on me I started blasting them instead. I went from one extreme to the other. It took a lot of practice to find a better balance. I still have a tendency to speak up more than I should because I never want to be a doormat again. Maybe you’ll be opposite of me and you’ll have to fight the tendency to be too quiet for fear of going back to your old more outspoken ways. Well I commend you for working on this. It’s hard to take an honest look at ourselves and make a change in our behavior. I encourage you to just keep practicing. It will become more natural to politely make your point versus making the cutting remarks, etc. that you are skilled at doing. I think you can do this but I think you’ll have to put up with something uncomfortable situations for yourself until you find a level of communication you want. Let us know how it goes.
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Default Oct 17, 2019 at 04:01 PM
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You can react by saying, ‘that’s not funny, it’s mean, and I don’t appreciate it’ and shut them down.
I do. And for the most part, she tends to avoid me. When we do interact, she's far more polite with me than she is with the others. But...

Quote:
The rest of the group may start to see them for what they are and also shut them down, leave them out.
This doesn't happen. When Natalie was with the group, the dynamic changed almost immediately, and the whole group began calling out Regina's ********. I could've done that from the start, but no, I'm trying to be less controlling for some stupid reason.

I'm only saying that maybe there are situations which make it necessary for one to be controlling, and maybe I shouldn't have held back.

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My point of telling you this is that when you do shut down this frenemy, I warn you about the smear campaign. But, saving your self esteem is worth it. And the others in the group who are real friends will follow suit.
What a twat. It's good you told her off.

I have a feeling Regina has already started a smear campaign on me. And everyone else. She's the type of person who will constantly make snide comments about people behind their back, usually about little things that no one else would've noticed otherwise, and oftentimes aren't even true.

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When I was working really hard to stop letting people walk on me I started blasting them instead. I went from one extreme to the other.
Yeah, I think I've gone too far in the opposite direction.

I have no problem politely making my point and then leaving it be - when it's only between me and Regina. When other people are involved, however, I'm inclined toward manipulation and controlling behavior in order to get the pawns on my side. And there's no winning in this game. If I succeed, Regina will vie for control by demeaning the others into submission, and then her and I will get into a screaming match. If I fail, then I'll either get into a screaming match with Regina or refer to the others as morons for listening to her. It can get ugly really quickly. Moreover, I'm hesitant to argue on behalf of the others, even if she's being flat-out emotionally abusive towards them, because then it feels like I'm trying to control them just as much as she is. Which I kinda am.
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Default Oct 17, 2019 at 05:37 PM
  #7
My new personal policy for IRL is when the issue of control enters into anything, I’m out! I can’t handle feeling controlled and have had no good results with controlling people.

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Default Oct 17, 2019 at 06:23 PM
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I do. And for the most part, she tends to avoid me. When we do interact, she's far more polite with me than she is with the others. But...





This doesn't happen. When Natalie was with the group, the dynamic changed almost immediately, and the whole group began calling out Regina's ********. I could've done that from the start, but no, I'm trying to be less controlling for some stupid reason.


I'm only saying that maybe there are situations which make it necessary for one to be controlling, and maybe I shouldn't have held back.





What a twat. It's good you told her off.


I have a feeling Regina has already started a smear campaign on me. And everyone else. She's the type of person who will constantly make snide comments about people behind their back, usually about little things that no one else would've noticed otherwise, and oftentimes aren't even true.





Yeah, I think I've gone too far in the opposite direction.


I have no problem politely making my point and then leaving it be - when it's only between me and Regina. When other people are involved, however, I'm inclined toward manipulation and controlling behavior in order to get the pawns on my side. And there's no winning in this game. If I succeed, Regina will vie for control by demeaning the others into submission, and then her and I will get into a screaming match. If I fail, then I'll either get into a screaming match with Regina or refer to the others as morons for listening to her. It can get ugly really quickly. Moreover, I'm hesitant to argue on behalf of the others, even if she's being flat-out emotionally abusive towards them, because then it feels like I'm trying to control them just as much as she is. Which I kinda am.


Well I’ll say this. You’re honest and I appreciate that. I really do. It’s refreshing to see someone say the truth, with no excuses. I think you will make improvements with the behaviors that you want to change but I suspect at times people will irritate you so much you won’t want to bother trying. That’s the hard part. People....
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Default Oct 18, 2019 at 01:30 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by LilyMop View Post
Well I’ll say this. You’re honest and I appreciate that. I really do. It’s refreshing to see someone say the truth, with no excuses. I think you will make improvements with the behaviors that you want to change but I suspect at times people will irritate you so much you won’t want to bother trying. That’s the hard part. People....
Thanks. And yeah, I think this is one of those cases.
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