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Old 11-08-2019, 06:52 AM   #11
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Default Emotional validation or manipulation

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Originally Posted by theoretical View Post
Oh, that's easy. Emotional manipulation in particular is just blatantly obvious. I don't know how people don't see it.

This would be a good discussion. I often notice that most people fall for some type of manipulation and I wonder why.

I donít trust very easily anymore. I just watch people because insincerity and manipulation will definitely reveal itself in time.

Regardless of the level of affection and emotional validation a person needs in a relationship, I think sincerity is what most people need for a healthy relationship.
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Old 11-08-2019, 06:59 AM   #12
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Default Re: Emotional validation or manipulation

Sometimes people are in denial about being manipulated because they are so starving for love and validation that they are willing to close their eyes to reality. Sometimes they feel that fake support is better than no support. Same way some people believe itís better be in a bad relationship than alone. Itís not like they donít see manipulation, they subconsciously ignore it same way people ignore red flags. Reality isnít always an easy pill to swallow. For many people it is not easy
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Old 11-08-2019, 07:05 AM   #13
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Default Re: Emotional validation or manipulation

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Sometimes people are in denial about being manipulated because they are so starving for love and validation that they are willing to close their eyes to reality. Sometimes they feel that fake support is better than no support. Same way some people believe itís better be in a bad relationship than alone. Itís not like they donít see manipulation, they subconsciously ignore it same way people ignore red flags. Reality isnít always an easy pill to swallow. For many people it is not easy


Excellent point. Yes. This is sadly very true.
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Old 11-08-2019, 07:49 AM   #14
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Default Re: Emotional validation or manipulation

I think there is a normal range of show of affection that is required/expected in relationships. It depends on your culture. What do most people do?

When someone needs much more than what most people do, they are considered too needy. When someone shows much less than what is the norm, they are considered aloof.

If you feel like someone is needing from you more than you can or want to give, then itís just not going to work. You can up your game a little in the show of affection of someone you truly feel affection for. But you canít totally fake something.

Is upping your game considered manipulation? Maybe. Youíre learning to give more of yourself to make someone else feel good. Is that bit of manipulation a bad thing? Not if it keeps you in a relationship you want. Then itís a win-win. If it feels good for them, then if it feels good for you, itís good.

As for manipulationó I usually recognize it. But some people are so darn good at it, that you never know you got played.

All these things like show of affection that is the norm and manipulation red flags are so hard to teach. I wouldnít know how to explain it to someone. You just learn by what you see and experience.
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Old 11-08-2019, 07:53 AM   #15
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Smile Re: Emotional validation or manipulation

I really appreciate everyone's candor here! It helps me to learn, and it shows me how diverse we all really are!

Some of the responses here are really wise, and some are really stoic. All of those forms of logic are great teaching tools (at least for me)!

Thank you!
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Old 11-08-2019, 03:30 PM   #16
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Default Re: Emotional validation or manipulation

Everyone has motives for their behaviors and some of them are completely on the side of the other person. If the so called support is at all to get something out of it, it is manipulative. Support, whether emotional or otherwise is only truly support if it's about you. In other words if you're crying they come to you to make you feel better because they want you to feel better or know you're there. Any other reason for giving anything in a relationship is a kind of manipulation.

Granted not all manipulation is bad, we all do it to an extent to get what we want in life and with people we know and care about. it really needs to be taken into context of the situation. If I only will "cuddle, hug" or otherwise be physically supportive of my SO so that [insert reason here] happens then it's not support it's feigned support and a manipulation.

I'd be wary of anyone that upfront says that they expect support for anything. because that to me says it's someone that thinks in terms of conditions also and what can I give to them. Idk about the rest of you but for me going into a relationship early on I don't think about such things. I never go into a relationship at all wondering what she can give me in terms of emotional support at all. I wonder if she'll like the same things as I, music, entertainment and what values she has and if they match. I just dont' think a relationship based on the amount of "support" given or expected is a strong basis.
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Old 11-08-2019, 03:37 PM   #17
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Talking Re: Emotional validation or manipulation

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Old 11-08-2019, 09:05 PM   #18
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Default Re: Emotional validation or manipulation

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Originally Posted by divine1966 View Post
But maybe they just think they donít.
Shots fired.

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Originally Posted by LilyMop View Post
I think sincerity is what most people need for a healthy relationship.
I think sincerity is a nice sentiment, but if I were to be totally sincere with a romantic partner, it would almost inevitably be emotionally damaging and extremely one-sided.

Suppose the expression of love we were talking about was physical intimacy, anywhere from cuddling to sex, and one partner in the relationship was asexual. The asexual partner can choose to not have sex because that's simply who they are, and they can try to express their affection in other ways. But usually this leaves the other partner feeling unloved because physical intimacy is something most people need.

Likewise, most people need a sense of connection and emotional validation, and that's something I can't give sincerely in the same way that an asexual person can't bond over or enjoy sex with their partner sincerely.

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Sometimes people are in denial about being manipulated because they are so starving for love and validation that they are willing to close their eyes to reality.
Yeah, I think this is a major factor for a lot of people, and sort of what I was getting at when I said people need a certain degree of love and validation to be emotionally healthy. Without it, they get all insecure, clingy, depressed, or anxious.

The most common manipulation tactics are emotional - guilt tripping, negging, flattery, love bombing, threats, outbursts, etc. You can't be guilt tripped if you don't feel guilt, nor can you be love bombed if you don't feel love. Naturally, it's very easy for me to see through these tactics because I'm unaffected by them. I still wonder if people realize they're being guilt tripped, but the guilt is too strong for them to ignore it, or if their guilt prevents them from seeing the other person's intentions.

There are manipulation tactics that have gotten me in the past, but I'm not going to tell you which ones.

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Originally Posted by TishaBuv View Post
Is upping your game considered manipulation? Maybe. Youíre learning to give more of yourself to make someone else feel good. Is that bit of manipulation a bad thing? Not if it keeps you in a relationship you want. Then itís a win-win. If it feels good for them, then if it feels good for you, itís good.
I'm taking that as a green light.

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Manipulation red flags are so hard to teach. I wouldnít know how to explain it to someone. You just learn by what you see and experience.
I'll agree to that. As soon as I typed, "but it's so obvious!" I realized that I had no idea how to actually explain it. Not to mention that there are a ton of different manipulation tactics, and each needs to be observed and handled differently.

It's kinda like chess, though. When you first start to play the game, your opponent's tactics might seem simple, random or meaningless. But after learning some basic strategy, it's now obvious to you that your opponent's seemingly innocuous movement of a pawn actually served to unblock, and thereby strengthen, his bishop.

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Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006 View Post
I'd be wary of anyone that upfront says that they expect support for anything. because that to me says it's someone that thinks in terms of conditions also and what can I give to them. Idk about the rest of you but for me going into a relationship early on I don't think about such things. I never go into a relationship at all wondering what she can give me in terms of emotional support at all.
Few people go into the relationship thinking about how much support they'll get because it's one of those things that's generally expected without needing to negotiate it. Kinda like air. You don't pay much attention to it until it's gone, and by then you're already suffocating and so desperate for something to fill your lungs that you'll take anything, even if it's toxic.

People who are overly concerned about such things usually have had insecure relationships in the past. They know what it's like to suffocate. Consequently, they're always thinking about whether they'll have enough air to breath.
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Old 11-09-2019, 10:23 AM   #19
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Default Re: Emotional validation or manipulation

ďIt's kinda like chess, though. When you first start to play the game, your opponent's tactics might seem simple, random or meaningless.Ē

^Exactly! Except there are infinitely more variables to humans! Some folks seem so innocent when they move their pawn, but they have the kingís capture in their sights!

Iím not sure specifically what you are dealing with as far as emotional validation in your relationship. In my relationships, I ask ďHow was your day?Ē Or ďHow are you?Ē And I listen. Thatís emotional validation, right?
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Old 11-09-2019, 10:40 AM   #20
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Default Re: Emotional validation or manipulation

I donít think all people necessarily get all anxious depressed or clingy when they donít have emotional connection with people around them.. Many just donít stuck around people who provide zero emotional validation or find other ways to fulfill themselves. I think your views of other people are a bit oversimplified. For example if I had a romantic partner who provided zero affection, Iíd simply not stick around him. Why would i? Clingy with people who are not into me? No thanks. Life is too short. Many people operate this way.

What I find rather curious is that why you, a person who has no interest in affection or emotional connection neither giving nor receiving, seek romantic relationship? Iíd say it defeats the purpose of romantic relationship. Even those of us who donít need whole ton of affection, need to give and receive some. If you need none of that, wouldnít it better to just enjoy activity partners and maybe casual sex?

Why are you seeking something you donít want and donít need? Seems a waste of energy. There are ton of things I donít want and donít need. Iíd not seek it. What for? Why not just be authentic? Do you want it because you observe others having it? But they naturally desire to give and receive that. Itís euther there or itís not. Are you trying to be someone you arenít?
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