We are all at different places in our learning journeys

We are all at different places in our learning and healing journeys and some people will not see things our way or we their way either because they are not ready or because their beliefs are different than ours. Saying the same things over and over won't change their mind. Sometimes it will if they feel respected, understood, cared for, etc. but not if they're forced. Yes, it's hard to strike a balance sometimes. We don't want to enable unhealthy behaviors but if they aren't buying what you are selling--detach if their behavior is hurtful but if they aren't hurting you then maybe insisting is violating their boundaries. I have been guilty of not understanding the correct balance but I am learning. What do you think?

I need to work on speaking gently when I’m having a confrontation. Better yet, avoid the confrontation altogether.

I had even recently tried to be really soft, and telling the person they were perfect just the way they are, but there was a smatter of sarcasm in my tone and they got mad. Lol, I was really trying but just couldn’t pull off the gentility when it came to something that causes me enormous levels of frustration.

I was raised in an atmosphere where there was no mincing words and holding back, so this is really hard for me to learn... but I am trying.

I recently had a conflict where I was totally able to see their point of view and understand them. I just found it very hurtful, because it was. But they could not/would not see my POV. All others I told, instantly understood my POV. It was very confusing and frustrating that the other person did not. But I realized that they did not because they did not want to. Because if they had, they would have had to admit they were being extremely hurtful, and they wanted to continue being hurtful... so they simply wouldn’t see it.

You are not going to convince anyone of something they do not want to even consider as a possibility because it does not meet their goals. Knowing when to back off, walk away, run away is very wise!

Excellent posts, both of them!


I agree; we are all in different places and somethings may never click in our brains or might years from now. We all move at our own paces and all of us have different lessons.

@TunedOut

Astonishing, isn't it? How alike and how different we all are. Sometimes, stepping back to allow someone to find their own way is hard to do but if we don't, we could be hurting them and interfering with their progress. It's a hard place to be.

@TishaBuv

My sisters have always stood up to defend and protect our psychopath mother and I realized that if they could acknowledge how much of a monster she was, they would have to face their own monstrosities. Do they possess what they need to do that? I have no idea.

But, that is their bed; that is their side of the street and it's not for me to do their cleanup. Does that make sense? I can only keep my side of the street clean.

Both of you have taught me so much in regards to this matter--you both are inspiring to me. Hugs.

Right. You could lay out a case for them with proof like it’s forensic science, and they’d still deny. The simple truth is they just don’t want to admit it. They probably know you are right, but still just won’t defy her... maybe because then they will suffer her wrath?

The definition of learning covers so many situations.

"Don't you ever learn!" could be attributed to a parent criticising their child's poor life choices. "I welcome the opportunity to learn from you" indicates someone recognising another's input. "I'm learning to drive" shows a person is willing to try something new that will benefit them.

Learning has different paces and levels. For example, I'm in my early-sixties and feel I've learned more since my mid-forties than in earlier years. Some things still can't do, no matter how I try. Swimming is a block for me; will paddle in sea or laze in the pool, but run away at first sight of an instructor!

On a more serious note, earlier today I was tactfully trying to show my mother how unacceptable my brother and sister-in-law's behaviour is (see post My sister-in-law lashed out at me). Complete waste of time as she can't see anything wrong. A closed mind about their favourite child.

Every moment in life brings in an opportunity to learn.

I thought I had good initial feelings about who is good and bad but now all the trauma in my family has made me sometimes afraid to trust my feelings. Perhaps it is just that everyone has a motive and we have to figure out how balanced they are about others needs as well. I feel so indecisive about people's motives sometimes and don't know if my mental illness is the cause. I have always been able to be swayed through exposure and argument but when I was younger my initial feelings about people seemed to work out well when I followed them. Some people have blind spots or weaknesses and people can get sucked in when manipulative people find them. The best way to manipulate someone is to figure out what they want the most in life and promise it to them. As long as they believe you mean to do it/want to help them achieve it then you might be able to keep some control. Another way to control people is to play their fears. The "I am the only one who can help you achieve your dreams" coupled with a fear of some kind can be powerful and sometimes subliminal. Our families understand us better than anyone else. I am sorry about your family dysfunction and will search for your post when I read posts tomorrow morning.

@poshgirl

I am going on 50 and I was wondering why does it seem like I’m learning more now than at any other time in my life. I thought I was just a late bloomer but maybe this is normal then.
@TunedOut

Yes we are all muddling through at our own pace. I’m learning to quietly muddle through along my own path and talk with others who happen to be on my same path. I learn from friends who have gone through what I’m going through. My family members are not on the same path with me and I’m working hard every single day to just accept that and keep moving along.

Words of wisdom from you dear Tuned out.I MO almost every MI can be traced back to some kind of trauma.Then flashbacks or ruminations or invalidations and triggers of unresolved trauma make MI more complicated and progressive.By the time it can be clinically given a label,in most cases too late.

There is a saying, alternately attributed to Buddha Siddhartha Guatama Shakyamuni and the Theosophists, that goes: When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.

When I was in grade school, I was not a great student. I didn’t like the dynamics of the classroom...yes, classroom politics in grade school!

I’m in my 50’s now, too. I am learning things I am really interested in and approaching it my own way. I am learning from all the wise people here. I take classes from a spiritual teacher, and tease her how unlucky she is to get me for a student, but I am so open to learning now!

Most all of us here have had struggles with relationships. We’ve been trying to get someone else to understand and cooperate. Our logic and needs are perfectly sound, but that other person just won’t or can’t see it. Well, I’ve learned they were gaslighting! They are acting in a way that doesn’t get along, because they don’t want to get along. Now that I understand this, I can have a sense of humor about it and just walk away from them. Learning this was a tough lesson for me, though. It was mind blowing to me, “Why would someone supposedly caring act just the opposite?” My best answer is that it was just their nature, I posed a threat to their thirst for power, or they truly were not caring under a false facade.

I find people and their motives to be fairly obvious for the most part. When meeting strangers, they want a business connection, friendship, just simply companionship. Of course, always be on your toes with strangers and don’t give out your password or stuff like that. Yes, be wary of someone who comes on too fast, too deeply. It usually burns out just as quickly and they may have ulterior motives. But mostly, I find people good and not manipulative.

Yes, I know what you mean about your mind being blown. I used to operate on intuition knowing that's a good person or I need to stay away from that person. At school and socially, usually easy to do. At work and with your family, it is more complicated than this. Over time, not calling lots and lots of people on what they were doing (you can't at work most of the time) or just being confused about the duality of people I loved sent me over the edge. One family member accuses one of this; another one of that; I feel a third or fourth way that doesn't jive with any of it plus lot's of guilt tripping--all of that sent me over the edge. I really didn't understand human nature. I was naive and am just now coming out of it at 56 years old. Dang! But I try to look on the bright side--I can be more of an equal partner with my husband now. I do see through the manipulations (my medication helped by calming down the anxiety response that slowing clouded my thinking) and suppose I get confused because I just can't believe what I see sometimes. It IS confusing to understand because they also love me. I wanted to believe their love was pure but none of us are really that way--I definitely can be a challenge too!

While is always saddens me when I see or find out about the abuse people have been subjected to, it warms my heart to see progress and see how their thinking evolves into understanding the truth.

BOOM!!! It makes my day!!

AND when the truths are shared so others can learn? BONUS!

So true Happycrafter,while heart aches and soul shatters,a person becomes wiser after realizing the truth.Once you see it you can't unsee it anymore.The self blame,denial,ignorance is gone.And a new thinking pattern emerges after the aha moment. I have seen much of that wisdom here on PC.

@Mendingmysoul

Isn't that THE Coolest? I love it!! xoxoxoxox

I don't think of it as abuse (not that there wasn't some manipulation to get what they wanted, even children will manipulate you if you teach them that that is how you get the things in life you want then when they test your limits and find out it find it works then you have big problems if the behavior they have learned is not good.) I think of it as I was just raised to be a people pleaser and it was used against me. I have too much sympathy and sometimes fell for some whoppers. It was just too tempting for them. I advocate better for myself and others now. I make better calls now!! Girl power!

^Do they love us during the time they act lovingly, and do they not love us during the time they act unlovingly? I’ve had to try to accept that they DO love us, too, but do they really?

I’ve had a really hard time coping with my emotions from this very issue. Regardless of my family knowing this, they did not treat me any nicer. Ultimately, I had to be the bigger person, the gracious one. So, if I have an emotional disorder, they are worse off than I am, and I had to be the one to just forgive and forget because they didn’t care how I felt hurt at all.

At this point in my learning journey, I am just acting like a mature adult when needing to interact, and I am keeping my safe distance, walking a thin line to not fall into what triggers me. I’m also surrounding myself with good people who act like they actually like and care for me, because they do.

I have a lot of empathy or sometimes too much sympathy.

I’ve sometimes fallen for some whoppers too. . Great thread

Girl power and bear power

I want to add to this thread that I now believe I have been on a shadow journey (YouTube) for the past eight years. My husband and I are very attracted to each other and we were destined to meet. I am beginning to transform myself and could not have done it without his opposition. He has been loyal and protective of me but also didn't always take my POV as seriously as he should have. We are twin flames (YouTube). It is my prayer that we can now work together to be a more positive force. Sometimes in our marriage, our opposition to each other may have caused some negative consequences. If we had truly worked out a plan together, we would have made better decisions. Those of you who know me understand what the fallout has been. I hope I can be more loyal and helpful to all in the future.

We are now stronger in new ways due to the conflicts that forced us to grow.