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Default Dec 06, 2019 at 04:34 PM
  #41
Ugh, I would have moved out way sooner than this person in the story did.

I can relate to developing certain triggers when dealing with a person that acts out in frightening ways. My sister has raged at me several times and there is definitely something wrong with her. Her behaviors have affected me deeply and certain outbursts thrown at me can definitely trigger me. Unfortunately, I had to once again experience her behaving very toxic towards me when I went to visit my parent's home to grieve and find the items I had asked for. Both my parents passed earlier this year and my sister's behaviors were so toxic that trying to just try to have time to say goodbye to both my parents when they were dying was met with her toxic invasions making an already very difficult situation so much worse.

Having to interact with someone who can be unpredictible and in some way mentally ill can most definitely be very unsettling. In all honesty, my sister's often toxic behaviors have traumatized me. I have tried to explain it to others, but I think it's something a person needs to witness in order to understand how triggering/unsettling/upsetting my sister can be. I have noticed people try to avoid her to be honest.

Did you get the stopper for your door?
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Default Dec 06, 2019 at 04:47 PM
  #42
Sorry to read about how triggering your older sister is for you. I'm sure I trigger my younger sister because our personalities are so incompatible. I hope you have been able to find ways to soothe yourself after the toxic encounters you have with your older sister that help you feel better. It's unfortunate when our family system is affected by toxic family members' behavior. I understand about feeling traumatized because my younger brother's behavior traumatized me to the point where we will always be estranged.

No, the bottom of her guest bedroom door is more than 1 inch from the floor so I assume I won't be able to find a door stopper large enough. The other problem is her cat will yowl and scratch at any door that is closed in my roommate's house -- understandable...since the cat has had to scratch at my roommate's door to be fed for the past 5 to 6 years, I don't blame the cat at all.

So, I leave my door open at night (against my better judgment). I've tried to shut the cat inside with me, but the cat will still yowl and scratch at the door to get out because she's a cat. And cats are more active at night. So, even if i find a door stopper, I may not be able to use it, with the cat being so vocal and noisy.

I do lock my desktop computer when I leave. I forgot to lock it once, and when I came back and opened up the screen, my roommate had been on my computer into my Facebook account. So, I have no privacy and I am not allowed to install a lock on the guest bedroom door per my roommate's sister's orders.

So, I just need to remember to lock my desktop computer screen when I leave in the morning so that my roommate won't be able to access it. I have to pay her December rent today.

I'm dreading the confrontation that will ensue because I am not paying the full rent amount this month - the deal I worked out with my roommate's sister who STILL has not responded to my texts about whether she was able to get in touch with my roommate/her sister about the reduced rent approval.

I'll find out if my roommate goes off on me, that will mean her sister did not in fact, contact her. OR, it could mean my roommate is mad. And if she's mad, well, too bad.

Oh, and the irony a friend in another state has an apartment available for rent but its $1200/month which I can't afford on my own. Or I'd move there like, tomorrow. Oh well.
 
 
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Default Dec 07, 2019 at 12:32 PM
  #43
So, I left the money order on the counter in my roommate's kitchen last night. My bank advised me to call later this week to see if she mobile deposits it. This is so exhausting to deal with. It was still on her kitchen counter this morning, untouched.

And, no new temp jobs on the horizon yet.
 
 
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Default Dec 07, 2019 at 01:39 PM
  #44
This room mate sounds like she doesn't want any responsibility but she also needs to feel SHE has the control. Break downs tend to happen when a person is going along in a pattern of thriving and something happens to them that really impacts whatever their pattern happens to be and they don't know how to recover.

It sounds like this room mate tried very hard to create her own reality as I have mentioned earlier in your thread and she got to a point where she had to face the fact that her own reality was not actually a true reality. This can happen to anyone because a lot of people function based on their own reality and try to fulfill whatever they wanted to achieve. She wanted something to happen in her life, she tried very hard to make some "dream of" come true in her life. She did not get her "dream of" and things got to a point where it broke her down because what she wanted and tried to create failed. She did not get a normal child and her husband failed to fit into this ideal she had also wanted and she was no longer a young individual that could walk away from these disappointments and try again to create this "dream of". So, it devastated her and she broke down and withdrew from all of it. She withdrew and is hiding out in that room in mourning of not having achieved this "dream of" that had been very important to her.

When a person breaks like this, often they genuinely lose their ability to connect with others. And when they have to connect with others, they may only be able to do so in anger or can be so sensitive they can quickly sink into resentment or just want to run and withdraw. A person in this condition doesn't respond well to anyone who tries to push them into being whatever they had been or being functional. A person in this condition doesn't want to "see" any more reality and anything that contributed to whatever they failed to have or achieve.

What this woman needs is for someone to quietly come to her home and spend time with her to help her grieve. She needs a special kind of nurturing presence because she is a broken down hurt scared child in a middle aged body and she is very lost. What she needs is not a presence that constantly "replies" or in any way "demands or instructs" but instead a presence that can respond with "I understand, yes that is sad, yes that is hard, yes it's lonely and scary".

One of the conversations I had with my father that was important and something I needed to get older to a point where I was able to see how fragile a person really is at certain ages was something he needed for many years. I was sitting quietly with him at one of my sister's gatherings, I sat down next to him as he was staring into the fire that was lit in the fireplace. We ended up talking about things he experienced in the war (WWII).

This time however, I looked at him and said "What you experienced was a lot for someone who was really so young and just a boy yet". I made it a point to reach out to "that part of him that was really just a boy still". For the first time he looked back at me, not as my father in his late 80's but that 17 year old boy who needed to experience a presence that was "understanding" of what that time REALLY meant to him. He saw things at such a young age that I could not even imagine experiencing myself when I was that age.

I remember how others, including my sister would reply "yah, yah, I have heard these stories many times" and NONE of the people he sat and talked to had it in them to respond to that "young boy" that had to deal with things most young boys at that age never see or have to JUST somehow when they really don't have the life skills or maturity to understand or deal. In that one conversation I had with him, he finally had a presence that could speak to that lost young boy that spent his life trying to understand and somehow recover from what he saw that had such a big impact on him. I was not looking at my father anymore, but that young boy that needed someone to sit with him and respond the way I had that nite.

When a mass shooting takes place in some high school, it changes everyone that experiences it. It takes away "innocence" and sense of safety that can impact that individual for the rest of their lives. My father was on a ship and got to know a lot of other men his age that were also on that ship. That ship came home from a deployment and for some reason my father was left out of that ship's next tour. That ship was torpedoed and the torpedo hit the compartment he had been in with all these other men. All these men were killed. My father never really got over that, it had haunted him for the rest of his life. In reading about narcissists or individuals that had some strong traits, my father did have a lot of these traits. He tended to be in his own little world a lot and yet he did have some depth to him too. However, his lacks stemmed from never really experiencing another presence that showed him how to see "others" and empathize. Unfortunately, that happens a lot. That's why there is a lot of "hurt people hurting other people" taking place. And, if a person never got it and had to figure out how to function anyway, that person can actually resent seeing anyone else getting something they are not getting themselves.

Two women sharing a roof over their heads both hurting and one can afford to hide out with her heartache and the other one can't and neither of you got your "dream of" either. And neither of you want to have to care about someone else either. You are doing it because you have to and she can afford to withdraw and not care. That's quite a combination you have going there Blanche.
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Default Dec 07, 2019 at 01:58 PM
  #45
If the temp jobs are not coming up for you, maybe consider taking some job that you can do that you can leave if something better comes up. One place that is often hiring are big chain supermarkets and while that isn't a very glamourous job, at least it's money coming in and being that you are smart you may get to quickly get into some kind of management position. My daughter worked for Stop and Shop for years, and all through college and was training to be manager when she graduated from college and got her first job. She worked two jobs for a while until things got so it just was too much to do these two jobs. However, she actually kept things open when it came to working her corporate job and also doing additional work to generate more income. So, even if you finally do get your masters and find a job, if you work at a supermarket you can also continue to work that job part time along with whatever full time job you finally find. That can boost your financial independence in many positive ways. Now, this is just a suggestion and something that came to mind when I was reflecting on how my daughter made ends meet while going through college which is similar to what you are trying to do.

Last edited by Open Eyes; Dec 07, 2019 at 04:50 PM..
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Default Dec 07, 2019 at 08:01 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Open Eyes View Post
This room mate sounds like she doesn't want any responsibility but she also needs to feel SHE has the control. Break downs tend to happen when a person is going along in a pattern of thriving and something happens to them that really impacts whatever their pattern happens to be and they don't know how to recover.

It sounds like this room mate tried very hard to create her own reality as I have mentioned earlier in your thread and she got to a point where she had to face the fact that her own reality was not actually a true reality.

Two women sharing a roof over their heads both hurting and one can afford to hide out with her heartache and the other one can't and neither of you got your "dream of" either. And neither of you want to have to care about someone else either. You are doing it because you have to and she can afford to withdraw and not care. That's quite a combination you have going there Blanche.
Open Eyes Thank you for such a thoughtful, well-written response.

Yes, I agree with you that my roommate doesn't want any responsibility (she neglects her own child's basic needs when he was here, for example) for herself, or other people. The pattern you describe is a cycle of addiction.

In my roommate's case, she is addicted to the highs of life (maybe why she could be bipolar, I don't know what her diagnosis is officially) and breaks down and hides out when something interrupts that thriving cycle.

I agree with your observation that she's choosing to grieve and hide because her "dream of" her career and family and the lifestyle that went with that, didn't last.

My mother actually fits that same thrive/break down cycle. After my father died from cancer, my mother chose to break down and stop living her life. She went to her job until her university dept. forcefully retired her (a younger employee there wanted my mother's job, so the director gave it to him, and forced my mother to retire but that's for another thread another time).

I lived with my mother for a while after my father died and she followed the same pattern as my roommate; the entire house was pitch black dark ALL the time, and the only lights on were whatever room I was in.

So, when my roommate started exhibiting this same pattern back at the end of July this year, wow, did that trigger me, in addition to having just finished taking care of my mother after her stroke and development of dementia and then losing the roof over my head, unemployed, b/c I again lived with her and took care of my mother until transitioning her to her nursing home.

I think I need a break from caregiving ANYONE because I need to caregive for myself.

Yes, we are quite the dichotomy living under the same roof. If you apply The Johari Window to my situation, well, it is very interesting to theorize the results since the Johari Window is a communication model about how we see ourselves and others; and how others see us and themselves. Two psychologists created this communication model and business leaders use it a lot. Even school teachers and social workers use it.

My roommate has both the financial means and thriving, extended social and familial network to help her (aka enable, in my opinion) through these repetitive thrive-and-dive (my new term) cycles that she's repeated for the past 5-6 years for the reasons you mention in your posts here (and who knows what other reasons too). Just tonight, a cute (and I mean, CUE-EET) UPS driver (think Blonde, blue eyed, 30s, 6 ft tall -- that's cute to me) dropped off a package addressed to my roommate. It was a 15-pound weighted blanket, gifted to her by of her friends as a way to reach out to help her.

Whereas, I lack both the financial means and thriving, extended social and familial network to help me (not enable, in my opinion) through my own struggle of not achieving my 'dream of' which has been ongoing for me since my 20s. So, about 26 years I've been chasing success with failure behind me. My own family won't help me.

So, you know, that says a lot about how I must present myself to them, or they would choose not to turn away and avoid me when I am struggling. Like, how you describe the way everyone avoids your older sister who you acknowledge is toxic to you and everyone around her. I think I'm toxic -- I must be.

Otherwise, people wouldn't avoid me like the plague. I've been in/out of therapy for years and have never discussed reasons why people think I'm toxic and want to avoid me. So maybe that's an opportunity for growth I need to pursue.

I take responsibility of course, for not having the financial means or the thriving, extended social and familial network to help me through my struggle to find my place (work, social life, etc.).

My roommate and I represent two life contexts through which people either thrive or fail to thrive coping with life's adversities, while actively pursuing opportunities for growth and development.

Last edited by Anonymous48672; Dec 07, 2019 at 08:14 PM..
 
 
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Default Dec 08, 2019 at 12:59 AM
  #47
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Yes, I agree with you that my roommate doesn't want any responsibility (she neglects her own child's basic needs when he was here, for example) for herself, or other people. The pattern you describe is a cycle of addiction.
Yes, there are cycles with addiction so I can see why that comes to mind to you. However, there are also cycles women especially go through every month, hormonal cycles. Some women go through hell when they are going through menopaus and some women have a hard time once their menopaus is over too. If this woman is in her mid fifties and her son is still pretty young yet, she had him late. It's harder having children once you hit early fourties. She was all about herself and her career for a long time and then had to share time with a child? Some women are not parental material and that is even more challenging if her son is on the autism spectrum.

I know for myself I struggled at certain times of the month, that was even more challenging when I developed endometriosis. That got so bad I had to have lazer surgery and they put an implant in my arm to stop my periods so I could heal and that implant completely depleted me of estrogen and I could not even function until I was given horomone treatment and antidepressant to help me feel myself again. I know first hand how horomones can really affect a person's mental health big time. It's not always a conscious decision to withdraw and hybernate.

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My mother actually fits that same thrive/break down cycle. After my father died from cancer, my mother chose to break down and stop living her life.
It sounds like she tried to keep working even though she lost her husband and that is a major life changing thing, especially for older couples. It's not always one's choice to break down and withdraw even though I know it seems like a choice. Change can really take the wind out of the sails for some people.
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Default Dec 08, 2019 at 11:25 AM
  #48
Something I've always believed (no matter what analogies people throw my way to disprove me) is that mental illness is a not a choice. I joined PC because I have anxiety, which, it was determined, was a maladaptive response to growing up in my family system....BUT...also a biological side effect of anemia and thyroid disease. So, I have always believed that mental illness is not in fact, a disease like cancer or diabetes, but is in fact, a biological response to something happening in the human body. That's another thread for another time (but I know it will be met with silence b/c I haven't run across anyone here who agrees with me).

So, I disagree with you that mental illness is not a choice. My mother CHOSE to give up after my father died. She had a support network of friends and family and colleagues and her children. She had the financial means to survive and pay off her house and move into a 2-bedroom apartment and continue her lifestyle where she took multiple trips per year until her stroke and dementia onset earlier this year.

My roommate chose to give up b/c her "dream of" collapsed, despite the fact that she had the choice to go to therapy with her son, get him diagnosed with the type of autism I believe he has, move out of state back to LA if she wanted to, or WHATEVER. But, she has choices. She just chose the give up. I sound like I lack compassion for my mother and my roommate. I don't. What I do lack is respect for people who CHOOSE to give up.

If mental illness (including anxiety) is not a choice, then, by your definition, I should give up and go be homeless and say "effe it, I'm worthless, have no value b/c I can't find a full-time job." But I don't believe that. I choose to keep trying to find a full-time job. I choose to go to grad school because despite it's lack of a practical application in my life (like an MBA or degree in accounting), I enjoy it. It gives me something to look forward to.

Also I agree with you that hormones can wreak havoc on a person (man or woman) when they are absent or malfunctioning. Esp. menopause and perimenopause or any reproductive-related hormonal disorder. When my progesterone is low, I am more sad than normal, around my cycle. Also, going back to my belief that everything we experience has a biological cause -- vitamin and mineral deficiency can create side effects like anxiety and depression and even psychosis. That's just what I believe. We all believe what we want to believe about mental illness' cause, right? You believe that mental illness isn't a choice. I disagree with you but that doesn't mean I don't respect your opinion esp. since you've taken the time to discuss my roommate situation with me in my thread to the extent that you have, whereas no one else has. And it has helped me process the situation despite the times we disagree with each other.

Last night, after I posted, my roommate left her bedroom to come into the kitchen and she looked at the money order but said nothing to me about it. I was watching a movie and eating dinner. I didn't offer her any. I think she expected me to b/c I had done that out of fear for the past 5 months. But I set a boundary last night. If she wants to eat something, she has to make her own dinner. Her neighbor also set a boundary (she texted me) and has stopped bringing over dinners for my roommate, since my roommate just let them rot in her refrigerator. I think setting boundaries is necessary with my roommate.

So, she waited for me to offer her some of my dinner but I ignored the silence and just kept watching the movie and eating. She tried to get me to offer her some of my dinner by asking me if I liked it. I didn't take the bait. I just nodded and went back to watching the movie. She then commented, "Oh, I know the screenwriters who wrote that movie." Like that was supposed to impress me or suddenly make me want to offer her some of my food, which she has been eating for 5 months now and never reimbursing me financially for it, fyi. So, I told her sister, if I am going to spend my money on feeding her sister, I won't pay full rent anymore. I think that is totally reasonable.

Anyway, after she saw that I set this "I won't feed you anymore" boundary, she left her kitchen and walked back into her bedroom. She meets all bout 1 of the psychiatric admissions criteria for inpatient treatment, which are the same as an elderly person for admission into a nursing home. The only criteria that's vague is that she is not outwardly homicidal or suicidal. And, since her sister won't file a court petition to have my roommate admitted, the county will continue to release her after a 3-4 day hold in the local hospital's mental health floor. Filing a petition would force the local court to put together a county mental health team to assess my roommate more thoroughly than the county hold psychiatrists. But, her sister won't do it or her mother or ex-husband. So, whether this is menopause, grief of not achieving her "dream of" family/lifestyle, my roommate's made a conscious choice to deal with her life by hiding, b/c she can financially afford to hide.
 
 
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Default Dec 08, 2019 at 02:52 PM
  #49
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Whereas, I lack both the financial means and thriving, extended social and familial network to help me (not enable, in my opinion) through my own struggle of not achieving my 'dream of' which has been ongoing for me since my 20s. So, about 26 years I've been chasing success with failure behind me. My own family won't help me.

So, you know, that says a lot about how I must present myself to them, or they would choose not to turn away and avoid me when I am struggling. Like, how you describe the way everyone avoids your older sister who you acknowledge is toxic to you and everyone around her. I think I'm toxic -- I must be.
Lacking the financial means and having difficulty thriving can bring up early childhood fears and frustrations. It sounds like you did not experience a safe and nurturing environment as a child and that family network was not there for you when you were growing and developing. You were abandoned a lot as a child too instead of experiencing a supportive family. You tend to emphasize a distain for "enable". This can begin at a young age when a child is experiencing a sibling getting more attention and nurturing than they are getting. This can occur a lot with the oldest child. Often the oldest child is expected to be responsible and thrive while the younger children experience what appears to the oldest child as "having it easier because they are young yet".

It's not always that way, sometimes the oldest child gets more attention than the younger children. Sometimes the oldest child experiences a stronger bond with the mother/parents and the younger children never really get to experience that same bond. In listening to different members as they share their different challenges and stories here at PC, some have shared how their older sibling got more attention then they did and when they needed important things, they failed to get these things.

I have met some males that experienced an older sister getting pampered and doted on while they faced having to be tough and not getting caring nurturing. And sometimes the eldest can be a boy that gets doted on and pampered and the younger child that is a girl almost gets ignored as though her being a girl means she is worthless. Same thing can happen if the oldest is a girl and she has a younger brother that gets pampered and coddled more than she does where she grows to feel everything revolved around her younger brother. Actually, that is what my older sister did, she doted on her son more, everything revolved around him and that made her older daughter jealous.

My sister hated my older brother (I am the youngest child) from the moment my mother brought him home as a baby. She hated him so much she even tried to kill him (she is two years older than him and four years older than me).

This "thriving and crashing" you describe that may be bipolar? You even considered addiction behavior patterns? This can be something that develops in someone due to the environment they grew up in too.

Quote:
So, about 26 years I've been chasing success with failure behind me. My own family won't help me.
This has been a struggle for you even longer than 26 years Blanche. You have a lot of anger, and I have to be honest, you have triggered me because sometimes your anger and reactions are similar to my older sister. At one point I did try to respond to you a while back and you reacted the way she reacts. My sister can be very difficult where she tends to need to have everyone see things HER way. And if you offend her she puts you on "ignore".
That is what you chose to do with me.

Now, I know you are not my older sister, yet, it's possible that you have similar grips that she has. When I saw your two recent threads, I did not know if you still had me on ignore, so for some reason I just figured I would post something quick to see if you did still have me on ignore. I think what motivated me was that I can see you are struggling, hurting, frustrated and scared. So, I just decided to reach out to you as for some strange reason Blanche, I do "empathize" and want to help if I can.

I have had to have a lot of therapy because of how my sister behaves towards me. I hate how she has treated me so badly, how she has hurt me and raged at me. Yet, I would never want to see her homeless or lose whatever she has that she cares about. Truth is, what people say about her that they don't like is "she has a bad attitude". Like with her Blanche, I feel that if I say anything you don't agree with or somehow feel offended by, I will be scorned or shut out.

I think you are "trying" though Blanche and you are very alone right now in your life. I can relate to that "alone" feeling and I can relate to the vulnerable "alone" feeling your room mate is experiencing as well. I had my own "dream of" too and like both you and your room mate one of things I wanted MOST in my life was to FEEL SAFE.

The BOTH of you need a presence that is UNDERSTANDING. That is a very hard presence to come by. I am 63 years old and my entire world was invaded and damaged when I was 49 and even though I tried so hard to handle it all, I broke down. There have been times where, like your mother and your room mate, I want everything dark, I want to withdraw and HIDE. Yet, when you talk about how you can't have that luxury and that you are a fighter, I WAS LIKE THAT TOO Blanche.

I can relate to feeling "unsafe" even in one's own home too. I can relate to both you and your room mate. I can even relate to how your room mate has bottles of antidepressants she doesn't take. Drugs often do not fix what is broken in someone. Actually, my older brother sat in the waiting room in the court house and other people were also waiting and my sister kept leaving that waiting room. My brother said "Our father was an alcoholic, he was very controlling and as a result WE ARE ALL BROKEN". He spoke the truth.

Your room mate is hurt and hiding out, she doesn't feed that cat, she is disconnected from her own son and her husband. Her family is at a loss too and your room mate IS A BROKEN PERSON. She may have been nice, may have "played well" with others too. Yet, she missed something and that missing something reared it's ugly head and SHE BROKE.

When someone breaks it can really feel like everyone or a large portion of other people are "narcissists". Also, I noticed how a broken person, someone who suffers from ptsd for example like me, can be so sensitive and emotional that they can be mistaken for a narcissist too. You watched your mother give up. Your mother did not fight for her job, and she was lost without her husband and that can happen even if the husband isn't "all that" either. Was your mother a narcissist? Did her inexperience and lack of knowledge mean she did not "care"? It's not that simple and it's easy to label anyone who fails to "care" somehow as a narcissist.

What I can say about my sister is that she has manipulated and lied and she wanted to punish me. It was my good nature that she always hated because as my mother said to me when it was too late for me to change anything that has turned out to repeatedly traumatize me, "OE, your sister has always been jealous of you since you were very little". I was devastated when she said that. She explained it as "You were always so sweet and caring and kind and your sister could not be that way". Well, I may have been sweet and kind and nice, but, what I have learned about myself is that "I never really felt SAFE". Yet, I think that my sister thought I got what she failed to get. My sister did not really KNOW how hard it really was for me growing up. In fact, my sister has clearly shown me she doesn't even CARE to "understand".

My sister never really knew how to play well with others, she always had to have all the control and that never changed. My sister was four years older than me and she ALWAYS had to be THE BOSS. What she doesn't even realize is that because I did not like that about her, I tried not to play with others like she played. I knew how it felt, so I tended to try not to do that with others. I could play with others who were like her because I did want someone to play with and my sister was a very creative person and I always loved that about her. Yet, I always knew that SHE had to be the boss and that never changed about her. That is exactly how my father was too. In order to play with my father HE had to have all the control. Everything had to be HIS way, and she is just like that, but worse in that she gaslights and manipulates and will even lie if she has to because she doesn't do well unless SHE has the control.

I think a lot of people try to "fix" whatever was missing for them when they were just a child. I think the root of that challenge has a lot to do with wanting to be safe and of course to achieve that person's "dream of".

I was a very creative person, always loved the arts. I brought a painting I did so many years ago that hung on my parents wall until I finally took it down, into therapy. This particular painting was of a seascape and my therapist really liked it and he explained how he likes art that has movement in it which is what my painting had a lot of. This painting was one I did as I was actually learning how to do seascapes. What is special about this painting is that I did not paint it to capture any real seascape, it was completely out of my own mind. I did take private lessons for a while where a woman came to my home. She kept saying how gifted I was, she was emphatic about it and told my parents to make sure to support my art. What I did not realize until I took that painting down and showed it to my therapist was that what she called "gifted" was because of what I could create from my own mind. I remember her giving me homework and how I would forget and end up rushing to do something not long before she came. Most of the time when that happened, I would just come up with something out of my own mind. I had not realized that meant I was gifted.

I used to write poetry, and songs and I was able to create a lot out of my own mind. I never realized that meant I was gifted. I am 63 and I honestly never realized until I explained to my therpist how what he was looking at was completely out of my own mind that that is what this art teacher was trying to point out to me. However, I also remember how my older sister tended to say "you are not very good at this or that". Or how my father would constantly correct me. Also, how when I was learning too, because of all the stress I faced growing up, I feared excelling because I knew it would be too hard to maintain it with all the bad things I kept witnessing.

Blanche, you are certainly not stupid, yet I think one of your biggest problems has been experiencing an "understanding and safe" presence that helped you to really feel safe to "grow and develop where you could create that dream of".

I have met so many different people during my time here at PC and I have seen a lot of people who have talents but they never had that "safe" environment where they could cultivate their special talents.
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Default Dec 08, 2019 at 03:26 PM
  #50
Wow, Open Eyes, you figured out what therapists over a 20 year period have never been able to. And I thank you for that:

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I think one of your biggest problems has been experiencing an "understanding and safe" presence that helped you to really feel safe to "grow and develop where you could create that dream of".
I know deep down that's the exact reason I have not pursued my artistic abilities beyond thinking about them. And I'm 48. I "dream of" pursuing all3 of my artistic interests but I don't because...I can't find a supportive network of like-minded people who would nurture my artistic abilities and let me be part of their artistic community. And I've tried and failed a few times. I even thought of switching graduate programs this time, to an artistic program.

The earliest memory of invalidation I have from my parents is when I asked them for a drum set for Christmas. They gave one to my sister instead, who had zero interest in percussion. When I shared my disappointment and confusion with my parents, my mother quickly invalidated me. They wouldn't let me even take drum lessons at school. Yet, my sister who is younger than me was given every opportunity to pursue her creative and academic interests. She got to attend the middle school she wanted to, the high school and college she chose whereas my parents told me "you're going to this school" and wouldn't support me when I told them I was unhappy at my schools.

So, you're correct Open Eyes. I have a lot of residual disappointment and disbelief over such things that I didn't know how to get support for, from other adults, growing up. I know that's why I am the way I am today. I'm sorry if my responses to PC threads here triggered you the way your older sister does. I did put you on ignore a few times, b/c your responses triggered me (they felt invalidating).

That is cool that you wrote poetry and painted and wrong song lyrics. I think many artistic people like ourselves never realize our "dream of" because we don't grow up in a family system that supports that artistic endeavor, and so we shut our desires down and focus on keeping the peace so that we can prioritize our emotional and physical safety, or the realization of our true purpose. I think a lot of people find themselves in our situation.

Thanks for sharing your story in my thread.

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Your room mate is hurt and hiding out, she doesn't feed that cat, she is disconnected from her own son and her husband. Her family is at a loss too and your room mate IS A BROKEN PERSON. She may have been nice, may have "played well" with others too. Yet, she missed something and that missing something reared it's ugly head and SHE BROKE.
Whatever she is missing, that caused her to break-down, that she doesn't want to address...I can't make that my responsibility to repair. I have to repair myself too. And two women who are, for lack of a better term, grieving their failures under the same roof (in different ways), is not a healthy environment. We can't support each other. It's not a healthy environment for me because I watched my mother simply give up after my father died. And, I'm not built that way. Even before my father died, I responded to emotional, cultural, and environmental blocks by not ignoring them, not pretending they don't exist. And that was not how my family system operated; they wanted to sweep everything under the rug, and I can't live like that. That's why I don't fit in with my siblings or mother. I can't pretend something is ok when it's not. I just need to keep searching for friendships with people who think like I do, who act like I do. I know they're out there. I just need to find them.
 
 
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Default Dec 08, 2019 at 03:49 PM
  #51
Just wanted to say that my last post is not a response to your post, we were writing at the same time and I had not seen your latest post yet. Also, please don't take what I say about your room mate as my making excuses for her how she is behaving.

Ok, so she came out and chatted with you a little last nite. She asked you if you were enjoying your dinner, and you decided that she was baiting you to feel like you needed to get her some dinner too. It's very possible she was doing that. It's understandable how you felt a need to set a boundary with that. However, isn't how you have made meals and her eating the food you got part of why you are now paying less in rent? Could her sister have said something to her after all even?

I think what needs to happen is better communication so this baiting feeling you experienced last night doesn't happen. Maybe you can explain things directly to your room mate by writing her a note or texting her? If you are paying less because she has eaten your food or you prepared food for her, then that is what she will expect from you. You can make enough dinner for her to eat, if she doesn't choose to eat it then that's her problem. It could be this woman is used to having things done "for" her and that is something she experienced a lot when she was busy working in this hollywood business world. Some people really can't cook meals and order out a lot. And a lot of individuals that are involved with that business often work on different projects and they work all kinds of hours and a lot of the time food is prepared on location like a kind of cafeteria.
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Default Dec 08, 2019 at 06:03 PM
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My roommate chose to give up b/c her "dream of" collapsed, despite the fact that she had the choice to go to therapy with her son, get him diagnosed with the type of autism I believe he has, move out of state back to LA if she wanted to, or WHATEVER. But, she has choices. She just chose the give up. I sound like I lack compassion for my mother and my roommate. I don't. What I do lack is respect for people who CHOOSE to give up.
It's hard to have compassion for another person unless you walk in that other person's shoes. When I finally opened up and shared a lot of my history with the therapist that helped me the most, at one point he looked at me with a serious look and said "You have had a lot of trauma in your life, how did you manage to be so resiliant despite all that trauma you experienced"? I have a feeling that because I had to grow up in dysfunction and figure out how to deal with a lot of different temperments and I was the youngest child, I had to learn how to be resiliant. However, I have come to realize through this horrid condition I have been experiencing, that I did NOT feel safe, so I had to learn how to thrive despite not feeling "safe".

I have to say that I would probably handle the situation you faced with your room mate differently. If I was sitting down and eating something I prepared, I may have felt bad that the room mate came out and I had not prepared enough for her too. If I had been watching a movie and she shared that she knew the writer or director, I probably would have taken that as an opportunity to ask her questions. I may have said, "oh, how about I make you something to eat while you tell me all about these people". I am always interested in listening to another persons life voyage tbh. It sounds like this woman worked around a lot of very talented creative people. When it comes to that industry, one works around a lot of different kinds of creative people too and with that a lot of different kinds of personalities and temperments.

I got a job doing something with my ponies I had not imagined doing. I was paid to drive into Manhatten, NY and have one of my ponies be part of an episode that was being created for this newer program that was put out by the same people who do sesame street. The man that hired me does a lot of the animal parts in different productions both on film and on stage. For example, the dog that was used for the movie Annie, was his dog that he trained (he trains animals for movie and theater). The pay he offered was really good and he said it was not going to take that long and that I would be in and out. Well, I learned "never believe that" when it comes to working with creative people. \

This was going to be filmed in a big warehouse. This is how a lot movies and programs are done, in big warehouses. The show was called "OOBIE" and this show was created from deciding to have a program that uses what puppet people learn to do before using actual puppets. They start by using their hands with faces drawn on them and they decided to have hands be puppets in a show. This particular show I was hired for was called "Visiting the Farm" and one of the things these hand puppets were going to do is visit a pony, which turned out to my pony (I was not to be seen only the pony that I handled out of the camera shot. Well, I was only supposed to have a short scene with my pony, but it turned out to last for HOURS. My pony had to understand that these people that played these puppets would be on the ground all around her and the only thing the camera would show was part of their arms and the hands with faces on them. Actually, what I learned when I visited that warehouse is that all the sets are up in the air and the people operating the puppets are below that and all that's filmed is the puppets and the sets. So when you see it on the TV all you see are the sets and the puppets, you don't see how that is actually done. Well, I had no idea until I saw the sets and watched what they did to film the puppets and my pony. And when you get all these creative people together? They all have different ideas of what they want and that's why what was supposed to be a very short quick job for me, ended up actually taking the entire day. Also, these individuals get hungry and send out for food, no one is cooking, and a lot of these people just get used to having their food prepared for them. Everything is around the "creating" it's all consuming. You know that saying "Ugh, don't make a production out of this". Well, I really found out where that comes from. I got paid for getting to experience something a lot of people never get to experience. It was a VERY interesting day. I got to experience a different kind of "Art Community".

So, I would be very interested in listening to this room mate of yours. She has experienced things that many people simply don't get to experience. When a movie is over we see a long list of credits, these credits list all kinds of people that participated in that one production of work. Yes, there are a lot of people that really do all kinds of things that go into the final product we see on screen.

I had to leave my farm while it was still dark outside, I went into the barn and had to actually wake up my ponies and load them up on my trailer and they had no idea what I had planned for them that day. I really only had a very small idea myself tbh. My ponies had walked into this big warehouse and experienced all kinds of different people doing different things. I have to say, I was so proud of my ponies that day. I did put in a lot of training that MOST people have no idea takes place long before they experience what I do. They had to learn how to be ok in all kinds of environments, people have no idea how long it takes for these animals to learn to feel calm and safe. All the lights, and talking and props and people crawling around them on the ground? I had not realized were many of the things I had prepared them for and they sure made me proud. Yet, GOD FORBID all that effort I put into that HAVE ANY VALUE. That was what was written down in my records at the hands of a psychiatrist and psychologist. Illusions of grandeur I had about that value. By individuals who NEVER did any of what I did themselves, but if it was not important to THEM, then it's not important or deserved to have value. Oh, I believe you when you say I nailed something other therapists failed see for 20 years. They failed me too. Yet one did listen and managed to get a lot of it.

Hollywood is one huge "art community" full of all kinds of artistic people with all kinds of personalities that have to get along to produce a work of art, be it a movie, or what I worked on which was an episode revolving around "A day on the Farm". The camera people, the TV monitors where they see what happens on the TV, the set, the chatter, the silence while filming, all FACINATING.

Interesting that you liked the drums. Your mother should have gotten those drums not just for your sister but to have present for all of you to try to see if you liked playing them. I like the drums too, I love the percussion part that is present in music. I was a lead singer in a band for a while, my instrument of choice was the guitar yet I also loved the piano, my parents should have exposed me more to learning to play instruments. I taught myself how to play the guitar. I also showed talent when it came to the piano like my grandmother, figured out how to play it by ear. I could not read and write music but I created it anyway, created songs and I sure WISH I had known that this is what the Beetles did too, they could not write music either, in fact other top artists were the same.

I totally understand your desire to find an art community that you can feel safe in to create. I was not ready to handle all that I had to handle when I was a lead singer. Being chased in parking lots, mauled, and my agent tried to molest me and I was stalked and attacked by a drunk while on stage. I gave that up because while I sure loved singing and entertaining, the rest scared me and I ended up walking away from it. I happened to visit a friend up at college who was dating someone from Berkley School of Music. I went to a party and sat in a big loft and they were all playing and singing and creating and for the first time I felt YES THIS IS IT. I went home so excited and told my father that's what I wanted to do and he said NO, you just want to meet boys. I was so devasted. I wanted to go to a special art school, it was hard to get into. I applied and had my portfolio looked at by the owner and I was accepted, I was so excited only my father said no to that too.

I know what it feels like to have it inside you wanting to get out. Yet, when I was young when dad said "no" it was not going to happen. All that matters is HIS OPINION and I had to accept that even though it broke my heart.

Sometimes people do give up, something happens that breaks them and they may have kept trying many times, then something, something inside snaps. I know, because that is what happened to me. I managed to come back after some major challenges in my life, even almost dying. That was a hard journey to come back from too. Oh I have described this "dream of", but it's not a simply black and white deal. It's often a lot more complex than "just" that.

Last edited by Open Eyes; Dec 08, 2019 at 06:38 PM..
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Default Dec 08, 2019 at 08:05 PM
  #53
The other thing that has changed a lot in just the past 10 years alone is the industry your room mate worked in. I do not know what part of it she worked in, but a lot of the players that used to be there are not there like they used to be too. It's a very different world now than it used to be back when she was 25. That industry has changed a lot over the past 25 years. It's very possible many of her mentors are gone now too.
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Default Dec 10, 2019 at 12:53 PM
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It's hard to have compassion for another person unless you walk in that other person's shoes.
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I have to say that I would probably handle the situation you faced with your room mate differently. If I was sitting down and eating something I prepared, I may have felt bad that the room mate came out and I had not prepared enough for her too. If I had been watching a movie and she shared that she knew the writer or director, I probably would have taken that as an opportunity to ask her questions. I may have said, "oh, how about I make you something to eat while you tell me all about these people". I am always interested in listening to another persons life voyage tbh. It sounds like this woman worked around a lot of very talented creative people. When it comes to that industry, one works around a lot of different kinds of creative people too and with that a lot of different kinds of personalities and temperments.
You and I are very different people. Be careful with the assumptions you make about me. I spent the past 5 months accommodating my roommate by feeding her meals without being financially reimbursed, even feeding her son whom she neglected and he's a teenager capable of feeding himself (pending his autism diagnosis, if he even has that, or if he's just messed up because of neglectful parenting). I did not move in to her house as Mary Poppins.

So, I've LOST money. That I need for myself. I clean her house, take care of her cat. Do snow shoveling, leaf raking. Moving forward, until I can move out, her sister agreed to lower my rent which I think is reasonable since my roommate continues to take meals from me (although she's clearly capable of ordering groceries or meals to be delivered to her if she didn't even have a roommate).

It sounds like you're telling me I lack compassion for my roommate. Are you?

I did not move in with my roommate to become her caregiver or her post-Hollywood personal assistant. I am under no obligations to cater to my roommate other than pay her rent for the room she's letting me rent. That does not make me an uncaring person.

Everyone deserves to feel safe with the people they live with.
 
 
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Default Dec 10, 2019 at 05:20 PM
  #55
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It sounds like you're telling me I lack compassion for my roommate. Are you?
No, and I am sorry if what I posted came off as assuming that Blanche. Thanks for giving me a chance to notice that without slamming me. I was also a bit confused about the arrangement you made about lowering the rent through the sister of your room mate. I am not sure if you asked for that because of having to cover food for her and do other things during the time you have already spent there or if you asked for the rent lowered if you are going to continue to be expected to do all these extra things you have been doing. I was not sure what your arrangement was in the first place tbh. It doesn't sound like your room mate knows what your presence is supposed to mean either. Perhaps she simply floats in and out of reality and your presence means something different to her depending on where she is in her messed up reality. For all we know she may be experiencing early onset dimentia of somekind too. She may need to see a neurologist and not just a psychiatrist or psychologist.

I defintely sympathize with how you feel confused and uncomfortable and how this challenge isn't anything you were prepared for. Yes, it's weird for sure.
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Default Dec 10, 2019 at 05:57 PM
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Well, your statement about compassion came across as a slam against me. As if I am not as compassionate as you would be to my roommate. That's how I interpreted your comment. That you were pretty much judging me negatively.

I made the lower-rent arrangement b/c I'm hemorrhaging my own MONEY on my roommate who refuses to spend her own money on food for herself. Instead, she eats MY food without paying me back. Which part confuses you?

You can't tell me you would allow a roommate to financially take advantage of you, the way I've let my roommate for 5 months now. Would you really not feel resentful? Or feel manipulated?

My roommate knows exactly what she's doing. She's been acting this way for 5-6 years. And she has family and friends who enable this behavior to allow it to continue. No one has filed a petition for inpatient treatment for her. That's all it would take, too. County holds at the local hospital only last 3-4 days and since she's not homicidal or suicidal she avoids being transferred to inpatient from county holds. How many hospital county holds do you think she's been through in 5-6 years? A lot, is my guess. And still, no one who knows her well (ex-husband, sister, mother, friends) will file the one piece of paper that could help her stop this cycle of hiding in her bedroom all day/night.

And boundaries are critical for people in situations like this. Her neighbor won't bring food over to my roommate anymore, b/c the food just rots in my roommate's refrigerator. My roommate has the money to order food online for delivery. She probably does that during the day when I am not around. I have no clue. Remember, she's 55 years old. She has been like this since she was 49 or 50 so she has the routine down.

She isn't experiencing dementia. I just watched my mother get dementia and there's no way my roommate has it.

And, my roommate will eventually run out of money, and then she'll be screwed because she has a house and a car. Then, her sister, who has power of attorney over my roommate will have to really stop skirting reality and do something. Ask yourself: why does my roommate need her own sister to have power of attorney over her? Why did my roommate lose custody of her teenager to her ex-husband? Why did her ex-husband divorce her? She started acting this way before her ex-husband divorced her. My guess is, he got fed up like I am, being manipulated and filed for divorce. I don't know the real reason, so its conjecture (and maybe a little projection) but who would put up with this for years from someone and not WANT to leave that toxic environment. Because it is extremely toxic to my well-being psychologically to be here.

She's willfully refusing to seek help for whatever her problem is (mental illness, menopause, whatever). She knows precisely how to manipulate people. She knows she has me between a rock and a hard place financially-speaking, because if I had the money to move out tomorrow, I would. But, I am trapped there until I can find a better roommate situation or sublease situation that I can afford. That's the rub of this whole horrible situation. I mean, at least she stays in her bedroom and isn't chasing me around her house with a knife or gun, when I'm awake or asleep. So I guess that is the benefit.

Living with a mentally ill person is more than weird, Open Eyes. It's extremely stressful. Sorry, but compassion doesn't protect you from a psychotic person yielding a knife. Not that she would do that, but c'mon. I'm not slamming you b/c you've responded the most in this thread. But I'm a little frustrated that you are comparing how YOU would deal with her as your roommate versus how I have been. Then you insinuate that I have no compassion because I am not in my roommate's shoes.

I have no full-time job offers on the horizon, so I continue to seek temp work, apply for jobs, and look for other housing options that will get me as far away from my roommate as possible.
 
 
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Default Dec 10, 2019 at 06:41 PM
  #57
Sorry you got the impression you did from my post. I can say for certain that it was not my intention to imply you were not compassionate. I am trying to interact yet I have not been sleeping well at all due to how toxic things have been in my life. I am not on any drugs either, just very emotionally and mentally tired.

The thing about dementia is that there are different kinds of dementia so not everyone exhibits the same symptoms. The attorney I had for my lawsuit from my negligent neighbor was in fact slowly declining into dementia. He managed to look and act the part, but in reality he was declining more and more when it came to being able to do tasks. People were nice to him the way you have expressed is happening with your room mate. I was at a disadvantage because I did not know or had any experience when it came to lawsuits. A therapist explained to me how there is a denial stage and that can last for a while and often others around the individual keep dismissing the red flags. You are at a disadvantage in that you did not know this woman when she was functioning and engaging in her life.

I can't say I would have lasted five months dealing with what you have shared. I would have said something right away if this person was eating the food I had gotten for myself. I don't think this woman understands your true financial state either, from what you described she is too wrapped up in herself. It's not your job to know what her issues are either. It's understandable you feel stressed about this environment you are dealing with. She is lucky you are not taking advantage of her or are a person that can harm her. I agree this is a tough situation for you and at this point you have managed pretty well considering and yes, you will need to keep looking for a way to get out of this arrangement and into something healthier for you. I am sorry ((Blanche)).
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Default Dec 10, 2019 at 06:49 PM
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Thanks Open Eyes. I appreciate you understanding. I should have left in August or September. In hindsight, I should have looked for another roommate situation the minute my roommate started hiding in her bedroom. HUGE mistake in hindsight that I didn't move out then. Oh well. Now I'm stuck here. I could leave but its below zero and I don't really want to go spend $60 a night in a hotel with what money I have left. If I had a full-time job, or savings, I would go do that right now but I don't have either.
 
 
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Default Dec 10, 2019 at 07:00 PM
  #59
Well, you had a lot going on and you did the best you could back in August. I am surprised you can't at least find something in retail stores being that it's the holidays and often stores are looking for extra help. At least that would get you out for a while and put "some" money in your pocket and it's just temporary. Ugh, I say that but I have not worked in retail since I was really young. Temp jobs are probably slow because of the time of year, being that it's the holidays.
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Default Dec 11, 2019 at 01:45 AM
  #60
This thread has been closed at the OP's request.
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