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Default Jan 29, 2020 at 10:18 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by TishaBuv View Post
You asked about others here who have had similar experiences. I just had my son, who was an ideal kid, go estranged due to friction between me and my husband and him and his new wife. It wasn’t about drugs or cheating. It was about individuation ‘on steroids’. That’s the only sense I can make of it.

Since you love your son and grandchildren, my advice to you is to tread lightly and be careful. The most important thing is that you have influence on those kids by getting to spend time with them. Be there for support. I’m sure your son knows how you feel about his toxic relationship. I’m sure he feels the same. It’ll play out however it will.
first of all, i am sorry for what you are going through. as most parents know, when our child is in an unsavory relationship we can't help but try and make things better, no matter how unwanted that help may be. but, i thoroughly agree that stepping aside and letting things be is the answer in order to keep any kind of relationship with our children/grandchildren intact.

thank you.

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Default Jan 29, 2020 at 06:19 PM
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he did make a comment that he was afraid that if she ever did leave, she would not let him see his daughter. "because that is the type of person she is" is what he said. that is when i told him i didn't think he would have any problem gaining custody considering her troubled background.
Aha, maybe that's why he's staying? Because he's afraid he won't see his daughter otherwise. That would make a lot more sense, especially since he's stated several times that he wouldn't marry her.

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Default Jan 29, 2020 at 09:41 PM
  #23
I feel sorry for the two year old. If there is fighting and yelling in her environment it can severely affect her for life.

Your son should talk to child services, he should start recording this woman's behaviors. And I would be worried if this woman was out all night and your son leaves his child home with her while he works. Bet she leaves that child unattended while she sleeps off her boozing/drugging from the night before. That's not good and yet that's what drug addicts do.

Last edited by Open Eyes; Jan 29, 2020 at 10:12 PM..
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Default Jan 30, 2020 at 01:37 PM
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I feel sorry for the two year old. If there is fighting and yelling in her environment it can severely affect her for life.

Your son should talk to child services, he should start recording this woman's behaviors. And I would be worried if this woman was out all night and your son leaves his child home with her while he works. Bet she leaves that child unattended while she sleeps off her boozing/drugging from the night before. That's not good and yet that's what drug addicts do.
i worry about all you've stated, too.

he has claimed she's a good mother, but this is the show she puts on for him when he's around, i assume. my son is too dambed trusting , I'm afraid. p

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Default Feb 03, 2020 at 01:03 PM
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i'll try to be as brief as possible. my son, 30, has been dating a girl, 34, for over 10 years now. they have a soon to be 2 daughter, my granddaughter ❤️. she also has a 14 year old daughter from a previous relationship. their relationship has been volatile from the start.

"jane" is a chronic liar, had been arrested for possession/distribution of pills (and is now a convicted felon), in and out of jail for a year and 1/2 for failing drug tests or not showing up for her court dates, also has been arrested numerous other times on a variety of charges throughout their relationship, the most recent a few days ago for fighting outside the bar she works.

i thought she would've changed after the baby was born, but if anything, she's worse. she will disappear for hours (on one occasion days, after an argument with my son) on end, or, if she's working 'til closing at the bar (she tends bar), sometimes doesn't come home until the following morning barely in enough time for him to go to work.

the latest incident was last night. she called and asked me to watch my granddaughter so she could fill in last minute at the bar. i agreed. when my son came to pick my granddaughter up a couple hours (he was at work) he asked where "jane" was, i told him working, he said she wasn't. he drove past the bar and her car wasn't there. he tried calling, texting her with no answer. me too. i offered to watch my granddaughter in the morning if jane didn't show up in time for him to go to work.

well, she must've came home eventually because he never called me and he hasn't responded to my text asking.

she also picks arguments giving her an out to leave. i think she's cheating, amongst other things because the signs all point to it. there is so much more to this saga, but i won't get into it now.

bottom line: i am a wreck over all of this. my new year was starting off pretty good but now i'm a basket case. i'm worried about my son. i'm worried about my granddaughter. they both deserve so much more. i know this person is not going to change and she will continue to bring stress into my son's life as long as she's around. and she's not the type to go quietly even if he were to draw up the strength to end it with her. thanks for reading. if anyone has had or is a part of a situation similar to this, i would love to hear from you.
Have you thought about contacting social service and reporting her for drugs, domestic violence? Have you thought about gathering evidence of the abuse and sue for harassment against the mother and trying to get custody of your grandchildren?
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Default Feb 05, 2020 at 12:18 PM
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the majority of the times, yes. and as selfish as this may sound, at times i wish he wouldn't. but i will always continue to be there for him to listen and help as best i can.
If he does come running to you, there is something else you can do but again it will still leave the ball in his court. At the point he is voicing his concerns, you can again offer your perspective and advice but with the caveat that at that point you let him know that it is his choice, that if these are serious concerns, it's on him to deal with it, accept it or leave. help him get to a point where he is thinking and asking himself what is important, what is worth putting up with and at what point it's no longer worth sacrificing his peace and happiness. Try to get him to realize that he is in control of the choice he makes to do what is necessary to make a change in the relationship and/or his life.
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Default Feb 09, 2020 at 11:07 AM
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Have you thought about contacting social service and reporting her for drugs, domestic violence? Have you thought about gathering evidence of the abuse and sue for harassment against the mother and trying to get custody of your grandchildren?
thank you for your response.

i have thought of reporting her for the drugs, but domestic violence? there is no evidence of that. and i've come to the conclusion that by me doing that would only make things worse for both my son and me. and as long as my granddaughter is being taken care of and fed and more importantly not abused in any way i'm willing to be the outsider keeping tabs.

she has another daughter, 14, from another relationship that is basically typical, except for the fact she has gender acceptance questions she is trying to work through. never any indications of any abuse from what i know.

bottom line, this is one of the most difficult things i am witness to. and i am still clinging to the hope that my son will one day separate from her.

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Default Feb 09, 2020 at 12:07 PM
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thank you for your response.

i have thought of reporting her for the drugs, but domestic violence? there is no evidence of that. and i've come to the conclusion that by me doing that would only make things worse for both my son and me. and as long as my granddaughter is being taken care of and fed and more importantly not abused in any way i'm willing to be the outsider keeping tabs.

she has another daughter, 14, from another relationship that is basically typical, except for the fact she has gender acceptance questions she is trying to work through. never any indications of any abuse from what i know.

bottom line, this is one of the most difficult things i am witness to. and i am still clinging to the hope that my son will one day separate from her.
I been through this with my sibling. Start gathering evidence against her. She doesn't have to know that you report her. Anyone can call the police said they saw her do something. See if you can get legal help from a lawyer. If she hitting your son and he tells you call the police anonymously.
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Default Feb 10, 2020 at 12:19 PM
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I been through this with my sibling. Start gathering evidence against her. She doesn't have to know that you report her. Anyone can call the police said they saw her do something. See if you can get legal help from a lawyer. If she hitting your son and he tells you call the police anonymously.
i have started keeping my own documentation of questionable actions by her. she has hit my son in the past, and i do have photos of that, but if it's happening recently, he's keeping it from me.

i have reached the point where i am so sick and tired of worrying all the time over something i feel is out of my hands. right now they are back in the "honeymoon" stage, which i know all too well, and i feel this is deepening into an ongoing lifestyle, which can last forever. i try to reason with him, but it seems to fall on mute ears.

right now, except for my granddaughter, i am trying to distance myself from their problems. he is going to have to handle this on his own, unless he reaches out to me for help, i'm keeping a close distance.

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Default Feb 11, 2020 at 07:02 PM
  #30
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i have started keeping my own documentation of questionable actions by her. she has hit my son in the past, and i do have photos of that, but if it's happening recently, he's keeping it from me.

i have reached the point where i am so sick and tired of worrying all the time over something i feel is out of my hands. right now they are back in the "honeymoon" stage, which i know all too well, and i feel this is deepening into an ongoing lifestyle, which can last forever. i try to reason with him, but it seems to fall on mute ears.

right now, except for my granddaughter, i am trying to distance myself from their problems. he is going to have to handle this on his own, unless he reaches out to me for help, i'm keeping a close distance.
I understand. I would contact social service.
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Default Feb 12, 2020 at 05:02 AM
  #31
Yeah, I don't understand why he would stay with someone like that and given how long they've been together, can't even make the argument that's it's the best for the kids. Sounds like it was terrible before they were even born.

Does he worry about the children if they broke up, as in on the off chance custody became an issue? Courts typically sides with mothers or not, unless your son has a checkered past as well, I'd like to think they'd give full custody to him.
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Default Feb 12, 2020 at 06:31 AM
  #32
I am a mother of adults, I do not feel I need to 'help no matter how unwelcome the help may be' (apologies if I am not quoting exact wording). Unwanted help is intrusion.
It truly sounds like time to back off on beating up on the mother....
It sounds so unhealthy for everyone, especially the kids as they pick up on Everything. She knows she is being piled on so it likely makes it really impossible for her and your son to work together on anything.
If there is real reason to involve authorities, do so.
Otherwise, perhaps talking to a T would help you to deal with the situation in a less (I say this based only on what I have read) destructive way.

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Default Feb 12, 2020 at 03:13 PM
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Yeah, I don't understand why he would stay with someone like that and given how long they've been together, can't even make the argument that's it's the best for the kids. Sounds like it was terrible before they were even born.

Does he worry about the children if they broke up, as in on the off chance custody became an issue? Courts typically sides with mothers or not, unless your son has a checkered past as well, I'd like to think they'd give full custody to him.
he has voiced his concern that if they were to break up, "knowing her as i do" she would try and keep him from seeing his daughter. he has a clean record and, i feel, would have no problem gaining custody, if not full then at least, shared.

sometimes people stay in toxic relationship because it becomes the norm and they know no different. i am a prime example of that, having stayed in a bad marriage for 20+ years, but i was hoping, as do most parents, that my son wouldn't follow in those particular footsteps...

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Default Feb 12, 2020 at 03:16 PM
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I am a mother of adults, I do not feel I need to 'help no matter how unwelcome the help may be' (apologies if I am not quoting exact wording). Unwanted help is intrusion.
It truly sounds like time to back off on beating up on the mother....
It sounds so unhealthy for everyone, especially the kids as they pick up on Everything. She knows she is being piled on so it likely makes it really impossible for her and your son to work together on anything.
If there is real reason to involve authorities, do so.
Otherwise, perhaps talking to a T would help you to deal with the situation in a less (I say this based only on what I have read) destructive way.
i do not remember saying 'help no matter how unwelcome the help may be' , but you may be quoting another poster. i have backed off, and they are now into what i call the "honeymoon stage." up down up down...

as long as my granddaughter is a part of my life, healthy, and happy, it's up to the 2 of them, being "adults" to figure this out. after all, sometimes separating proves to be the best thing for everyone involved.

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Default Feb 12, 2020 at 03:48 PM
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he has voiced his concern that if they were to break up, "knowing her as i do" she would try and keep him from seeing his daughter. he has a clean record and, i feel, would have no problem gaining custody, if not full then at least, shared.


sometimes people stay in toxic relationship because it becomes the norm and they know no different. i am a prime example of that, having stayed in a bad marriage for 20+ years, but i was hoping, as do most parents, that my son wouldn't follow in those particular footsteps...
Yeah, I'd worry about that too. You never know who you'll get as a judge and if they're truly impartial or if they heavily favor mothers regardless of how much of a train wreck they might be. Nevermind what the mother might try to accuse him of to try to make him look bad, bald faced lie or not. Or, God forbid, make a physical/sexual abuse claim against him in regards to the child. Eventually the truth comes out, but that doesn't matter usually in a court of opinion.
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Default Feb 12, 2020 at 04:00 PM
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he has voiced his concern that if they were to break up, "knowing her as i do" she would try and keep him from seeing his daughter. he has a clean record and, i feel, would have no problem gaining custody, if not full then at least, shared.


sometimes people stay in toxic relationship because it becomes the norm and they know no different. i am a prime example of that, having stayed in a bad marriage for 20+ years, but i was hoping, as do most parents, that my son wouldn't follow in those particular footsteps...
I forgot to add that I was also in a very toxic relationship for approx. 6 years. We weren't right for each other, but for one reason or another couldn't see it or actively ignored the warning signs.

She had similar substance abuse issues in the beginning. Not heavy drugs, but alcohol, benzos, and stimulants. And then add on top of that some fairly symptomatic borderline personality disorder that she was very resistant to getting treatment for, even when I essentially begged her and told her it wasn't right that I was seeing a psychiatrist, a regular therapist, and a CBT therapist for social anxiety; that I was by no means perfect and didn't expect her to be "cured," but I expected both of us to put in the work if we thought the relationship was worth it.

At the end of the day, whether it was her not getting help, my own issues, or our personalities just not being right and we couldn't give each other what we wanted or needed, I don't regret the time we spent. It made me who I am for better or worse.
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Default Feb 13, 2020 at 03:16 AM
  #37
Hey @kitkat620 I do not think you are selfish at all, I think you need to find out what your sons' expectations are of you and set some boundaries. If he expects you to give advice then you may need to clarify that the advice you give will only be a few times and then after that you dont want to talk about her again. You may want to tell him that you feel awkward and that you dont know what you should say to him when he comes running to you. You may need to tell him that you do not want to discuss it anymore and tell him what the consequences will be if he does. By consequences I mean what will happen if he violates those boundaries? (Like you may have to disengage the conversation until he stops involving you) or tell him that you will talk to him another time. Find out what his motivations are for telling you about her. Does he want you to tell him what to do? Like her? Intervene?
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the majority of the times, yes. and as selfish as this may sound, at times i wish he wouldn't. but i will always continue to be there for him to listen and help as best i can.

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Default Feb 17, 2020 at 12:12 PM
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Hey @kitkat620 I do not think you are selfish at all, I think you need to find out what your sons' expectations are of you and set some boundaries. If he expects you to give advice then you may need to clarify that the advice you give will only be a few times and then after that you dont want to talk about her again. You may want to tell him that you feel awkward and that you dont know what you should say to him when he comes running to you. You may need to tell him that you do not want to discuss it anymore and tell him what the consequences will be if he does. By consequences I mean what will happen if he violates those boundaries? (Like you may have to disengage the conversation until he stops involving you) or tell him that you will talk to him another time. Find out what his motivations are for telling you about her. Does he want you to tell him what to do? Like her? Intervene?
hi, thanks for your reply. i haven't talked to him about her since the last episode a couple of weeks back. and right now, they are getting along, from what i can tell, but i have made it clear to him, by my silence, that i don't want to hear anything about her, good or bad, and i do not ask how things are going concerning their relationship. it's less stressful for me this way. if he does want to talk, he knows i am here, but he also knows i will give my honest opinion on how i feel about her and their relationship.

when the girl is good, she is very, very good, but when she's bad, she's evil, selfish, uncaring, and mentally destructive to both herself and the people around her. i honestly feel she is addicted to something, or at the very least, abusing some sort of substance.

i've had almost constant contact with my granddaughter and she seems healthy and happy, so i guess that's the most important thing right now.

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Default Feb 17, 2020 at 01:03 PM
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nothing will change until your son is ready. and that is his call only. he may know deep in his heart she is not right but until he is ready all the harping on it, talking, and even insight from a psychologist isn't going to be the push he needs. he is a parent...to push him into making a decision is as wrong as you feel he is in making him stay. it is a call only HE can make, and whatever call he does make, you aas family need to abide by it or leave him alone
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Default Feb 19, 2020 at 03:55 AM
  #40
Hey @kitkat620 I am a little confused: Above in another post, you said this:
Quote:

i have thought of reporting her for the drugs, but domestic violence? there is no evidence of that. and i've come to the conclusion that by me doing that would only make things worse for both my son and me. and as long as my granddaughter is being taken care of and fed and more importantly not abused in any way i'm willing to be the outsider keeping tabs.
But in this post you are saying this:
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i have started keeping my own documentation of questionable actions by her. she has hit my son in the past, and i do have photos of that, but if it's happening recently, he's keeping it from me.
Do you mean that only recently she has hit him? Because hitting him in the face is DV and doing that in the home of the child is an abusive environment for the child even if the child isnt being physically abused right now. Many cases of DV spill over into abuse of the child, even if its emotional abuse. I think its a great idea you are keeping track of it.
Quote:
i have reached the point where i am so sick and tired of worrying all the time over something i feel is out of my hands. right now they are back in the "honeymoon" stage, which i know all too well, and i feel this is deepening into an ongoing lifestyle, which can last forever. i try to reason with him, but it seems to fall on mute ears.
I get this. Its very frustrating. Its one of those things that makes you want to shake him right? Many times partners that are abused are afraid to leave because of what the abuser will do to them or their child. When a woman is being abused by her boyfriend they go to a DV shelter. I dont know what a man should do and to be frank I feel its biased for society to think that a man cant be abused to the point where they are afraid to leave.
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right now, except for my granddaughter, i am trying to distance myself from their problems. he is going to have to handle this on his own, unless he reaches out to me for help, i'm keeping a close distance.
Very good points.

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