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Default Feb 20, 2020 at 01:38 PM
  #1
I read a few things that seemed pertinent to the recent influx of discussions on abusive relationships.

I'll just leave these here if anyone wants to have a look-see:

‘It’s like you go to abuse school’: how domestic violence always follows the same script | Society | The Guardian

Military Training Materials — The Center for the Study of Human Rights in the Americas (CSHRA)

Brainwashing and domestic violence

What I'd like now is information on how to counter the brainwashing, but that information doesn't seem to exist. All the guides on helping abuse victims seem to assume that the abuse victim will eagerly comply with whatever escape method you've designed for them, but I've found that this is rarely the case on account of the brainwashing.

And if it's so easy to brainwash someone, why is it so hard to undo?
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Default Feb 20, 2020 at 01:46 PM
  #2
I wish I had answers to your questions, questions which are so important, but sadly I lack such knowledge and insight. I really hope you find the information you are seeking!

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Default Feb 20, 2020 at 01:58 PM
  #3
Physically rescue the victim and put them into a healthy environment? If abused long enough, will they gravitate to another abusive situation?

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Default Feb 20, 2020 at 02:22 PM
  #4
theoretical, you may want to put a trigger icon for your thread here. It has the potential to be triggering for "some" members.

You are right though, some recent threads are touching on how individuals get brainwashed and stay in abusive relationships because they do not know what else to do. However, a lot of times it's something they witnessed take place in their parents when growing up. So often what is considered emotional abuse and controlling techniques are "familiar" to the point where often a person picks a partner that has similar control or toxic issues unknowingly.
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Default Feb 20, 2020 at 06:15 PM
  #5
It is scary how brainwashing does occur.

From what I understand, it's easier for a victim of abuse TO BE brainwashed if they've already grown up believing negative beliefs about themselves, ie .that they are undeserving, unlovable, hateful, terrible human beings... and usually that comes from past abuse.

So when an abuser tells their victim how terrible they are, they already feel this way inside, so it's reaffirming to the victim of abuse, that yes, they must be a terrible person, or they must be at fault somehow, or they must be deserving of the mistreatment they are receiving. And these are the exact messages that an abuser sends to their victim.

It's so saddening to see and watch happen. The abuse victim can only get out if they somehow get out of their own mindset of believing these false types of accusations and inwards beliefs that they've already engrained in themselves their whole lives. And that usually takes a therapist -- a good therapist - to help the victim to understand that they've been told FALSE messages about themselves because of the abuse they've endured.

I have a good friend -- a female friend - who exemplifies exactly what I am talking about. She is full of self-hatred and self-deprecating remarks because she was SO badly abused as a child. Then married an abuser..... and she is quite brainwashed to believe that SHE is the problem - NOT HIM. When he's the abuser, not her. She also suffers from BPD and believes that it's her BDP that causes everything abusive act that he does to her. It's SO saddening... and whenever I tell her she's being abused, she turns her head the other way.

In contrast, a person who grew up NOT being abused, whose self-esteem was nurtured and developed fully, would never be brainwashed to believe the BS that an abuser dishes out. This person has strong self-esteem and knows that it's not their fault OR their disorder. A person with strong self-esteem has a much easier time walking away from abuse than does the person with far weaker self-esteem or than someone who has grown up with and become conditioned to abuse.

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Default Feb 20, 2020 at 07:43 PM
  #6
From my own experience, where I would have given ANYTHING for my mum to leave my dad (and take us with her), I've come to realise that the brainwashing wasn't so much of a problem as we sometimes assume.

My mum was very astute and self-aware.

But when you're in that situation, as many of us sadly know, there are many unspoken elements at play.

Often, the frightened family members (and we're afraid ALL the time, on some level, even when nothing is happening) are living in a hypersensitised state, where instincts are everything.

We can become like little meercats, ridiculously vigilant (for, say, any tiny sign that might herald a shift in the abuser's mood).

In short, through living this way we KNOW that leaving the violent person (who we've been walking on eggshells around for years) would be unbelievably dangerous.

Leaving is the ONLY way.

A child cannot be happy in that environment. It's hell on earth!

But I just wanted to say that for some abused women who stay, they aren't brainwashed, as such. It's that they know in their hearts that if they ask for help, they and their kids could die. They are more, then, trying to make the best of an impossible situation.

This was my experience, anyway.

My dad's rage, if my mum had ever called the police on him, would have been apocalyptic.
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Default Feb 21, 2020 at 12:16 AM
  #7
Another good article on brainwashing. The signs you'''re a victim of perspecticide - Business Insider

The answer to your question, theoretical as to why its hard to deprogram a brainwashed victim of abuse (let alone, member of a cult, or a military soldier) is because of the way the brainwashing functions to remove the victim's own ability to form reasonable thoughts.

Quote:
"Through perspecticide, people give up their own opinions, religious affiliations, views of friends, goals in life, etc," Fontes said. "I am not talking about the natural mutual influencing that occurs in all intimate relationships — this is much more nefarious and one-sided."
Quote:
For the victim, their life is overwhelmed with wondering how to appease their controlling partner. Fontes said they may even experience physical signs of stress over time such as changes to eating and sleeping, head or back aches, and digestive problems, because they are too worried about their partner's wrath.

"A person who is being coercively controlled — even without physical violence — does not feel free to live their own life on their own terms," she said.
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Default Feb 21, 2020 at 12:35 AM
  #8
it's easy to call the winning plays for the football game after the game is over or from the comfort of the living room.

there is a syndrome call Stockholm syndrome : it is a condition in which hostages develop a psychological alliance with their captors during captivity. Emotional bonds may be formed, between captor and captives, during intimate time together, but these are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims.

the relationship altho dysfunctional becomes normal.

just because someone on the outside sees a relationship as "bad or dangerous" the people inside it don't necessarily feel the same way. danger, abuse, etc make no difference. kind of like telling an addict to stop using..they may not see the problem. outsiders can scream & yell but you can't force change on people.

in many places law enforcement must take action if called to the scene.. regardless if no one wants to file a complaint of abuse. this helps break the cycle of power and inability to break thru the relationship.

I think the key thing is for us to remember to not criticize victims even more for their inability to break free..that does nothing ...if a woman (or man) does not feel strong enough to leave the relationship, the last thing they need is a chorus of others adding on comments about their character being poor and adding on to the abuse to children etc. I doubt there is free will involved with that victim. my guess is that when she (or he) feels strong & safe enough they might try to make a break for it...hopefully..maybe it will take intervention by law enforcement, maybe family, friends, who knows...but I do know support is the key, not criticism and cries to remove the children and leave the other parent in the home.
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Default Feb 21, 2020 at 02:55 PM
  #9
Okay, there's a bit going on here, so I'm going to try addressing some key points instead of responding to each post individually.

Firstly,

Quote:
Originally Posted by resurgam
it's easy to call the winning plays for the football game after the game is over or from the comfort of the living room.
I agree. It's quite a bit different when one's caught up in the moment and the outcome is uncertain. One risks becoming overwhelmed with emotions. But there's some advantage to re-watching the game after the fact with a critical eye. We can see what mistakes we made more clearly and devise plans for how we should've acted so that we might be better prepared in the future.

I mean, I barely even have any emotions to get caught up in, but trying to help an abusive victim by reasoning with them, from my experience, has been about as effective as breaking through a brick wall with your forehead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StreetcarBlanche
...because of the way the brainwashing functions to remove the victim's own ability to form reasonable thoughts.
So maybe using reason isn't the answer. Much like cultists, they didn't enter into that situation through reason, and they aren't going to leave through reason either.

Nonetheless, I still don't think it's impossible. Hell, it probably isn't even that hard. It isn't like these abusers are criminal masterminds who've planned out every manipulation in meticulous detail. In most cases, they're just emotionally disturbed, and the abuse suffered by their partners is merely a side effect of the abuser's inability to contain their own toxic ********.

I guess the obvious question ought to be: For those of you who decided to leave an abusive relationship, what was it that convinced you to make that decision? What broke the illusion?

Also, what didn't work?

A few side notes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple,Violet,Blue
...they aren't brainwashed, as such. It's that they know in their hearts that if they ask for help, they and their kids could die.
I get what you're trying to say, and I want to be clear that I'm not implying the physical danger isn't real, but this is still an aspect of the brainwashing process, #4 and #6, specifically. It creates learned helplessness. StreetcareBlanche's article has some good illustrations of this in practice with the abuser convincing his victim that she's powerless against him and that any attempt to defy him will lead to violence or death.

And again, not that death isn't a real possibility, but abusers aren't nearly as powerful as they make themselves out to be. It's merely an attempt to use fear as a method of control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TishaBuv
Physically rescue the victim and put them into a healthy environment?
That's a bold strategy, Tisha, and I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I believe various law enforcement agencies refer to this as "kidnapping" and it's generally frowned upon for some reason.
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Default Feb 22, 2020 at 12:04 AM
  #10
Quote:
I guess the obvious question ought to be: For those of you who decided to leave an abusive relationship, what was it that convinced you to make that decision? What broke the illusion?

Also, what didn't work?

And again, not that death isn't a real possibility, but abusers aren't nearly as powerful as they make themselves out to
I've been staying out of the threads about spouse abuse for the most part. The whole subject is a tough one for me. Some comments really bothered me, but I'm going to try to answer these questions.

I'm one of the ones who decided to leave. There was no thunderclap of a decision to go. Instead it was a glacially slow process. I didn't even realize I was being abused until my therapist asked me how often my husband abused me. I answered without thinking and said "He only hit me twice." Yeah, sitting on the outside looking in that's crazy sounding, but by that point I thought I deserved it.

Staying was complicated. I ran a business from our farm. I couldn't just leave. I had to be there for business. I also had to be there to care for the animals.
On an emotional level I couldn't leave. I thought if I just did whatever needed to be done to fix things it would be okay. On some level I believed I deserved the abuse. And the idea of being on my own scared the ever loving h e l l out of me. During a counseling session my therapist tried to get me to say ",I deserve to be treated with love and respect." I could not get the words out. I literally could not say the words out loud. But man alive I would repeat them in my head like a mantra when I got scared.

Finances were also a major obstacle. I had my own business but it did not generate enough money for me to live on. I decided I needed to go back to school for a new career. I still tell people I went back to school for a new career because I was afraid of being permanently injured in the business (I trained horses). The real reason was and still is to have enough income to support myself.

What helped me was damned hard work learning I did deserve to be treated with love and respect. Learning that I did NOT deserve to live in fear. That I did NOT deserve to be hurt.

There's been a lot of talk about brainwashing of the person abused. It took hindsight for me to realize that. It was years of chipping away at my self worth that got me beaten down so far.

My husband was killed in an accident before I was able to leave. For a long time I was so angry because the chance leave was taken away from me. I felt like he took one more thing from me. Yes, I know that is not rational.

As for what didn't work... telling me to get out. Saying that women who leave are strong. The message behind that is "you're weak for staying." It was taking every last bit of courage I had one to make the internal changes I needed to make before I could leave. Yelling at someone who stays just compounds the problem. People saying "she should just leave" also compounds the problem. Don't judge another until you've walked in their shoes.

Fear of being killed is very real. My husband's abuse was mostly verbal and emotional, but I was terrified he was going to kill me.

One last thing, my husband has been dead 20 years. I am unwilling to get into another relationship. In part because I love the life I've made for myself and don't want to have to make room for someone else. But more than that I don't trust myself not to end up back in another abusive relationship.
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Default Feb 22, 2020 at 01:05 AM
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by lizardlady View Post



I've been staying out of the threads about spouse abuse for the most part. The whole subject is a tough one for me. Some comments really bothered me, but I'm going to try to answer these questions.


I'm one of the ones who decided to leave. There was no thunderclap of a decision to go. Instead it was a glacially slow process. I didn't even realize I was being abused until my therapist asked me how often my husband abused me. I answered without thinking and said "He only hit me twice." Yeah, sitting on the outside looking in that's crazy sounding, but by that point I thought I deserved it.


Staying was complicated. I ran a business from our farm. I couldn't just leave. I had to be there for business. I also had to be there to care for the animals.

On an emotional level I couldn't leave. I thought if I just did whatever needed to be done to fix things it would be okay. On some level I believed I deserved the abuse. And the idea of being on my own scared the ever loving h e l l out of me. During a counseling session my therapist tried to get me to say ",I deserve to be treated with love and respect." I could not get the words out. I literally could not say the words out loud. But man alive I would repeat them in my head like a mantra when I got scared.


Finances were also a major obstacle. I had my own business but it did not generate enough money for me to live on. I decided I needed to go back to school for a new career. I still tell people I went back to school for a new career because I was afraid of being permanently injured in the business (I trained horses). The real reason was and still is to have enough income to support myself.


What helped me was damned hard work learning I did deserve to be treated with love and respect. Learning that I did NOT deserve to live in fear. That I did NOT deserve to be hurt.


There's been a lot of talk about brainwashing of the person abused. It took hindsight for me to realize that. It was years of chipping away at my self worth that got me beaten down so far.


My husband was killed in an accident before I was able to leave. For a long time I was so angry because the chance leave was taken away from me. I felt like he took one more thing from me. Yes, I know that is not rational.


As for what didn't work... telling me to get out. Saying that women who leave are strong. The message behind that is "you're weak for staying." It was taking every last bit of courage I had one to make the internal changes I needed to make before I could leave. Yelling at someone who stays just compounds the problem. People saying "she should just leave" also compounds the problem. Don't judge another until you've walked in their shoes.


Fear of being killed is very real. My husband's abuse was mostly verbal and emotional, but I was terrified he was going to kill me.


One last thing, my husband has been dead 20 years. I am unwilling to get into another relationship. In part because I love the life I've made for myself and don't want to have to make room for someone else. But more than that I don't trust myself not to end up back in another abusive relationship.


You are an amazingly strong woman

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Default Feb 22, 2020 at 01:57 PM
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by lizardlady View Post

I've been staying out of the threads about spouse abuse for the most part. The whole subject is a tough one for me. Some comments really bothered me, but I'm going to try to answer these questions.
Thanks for answering. Your comments were very insightful.

Speaking of, I realize that I can be a bit insensitive to these kinds of things what with the dearth of complex emotions, so feel free to yell at me if I'm getting too blunt with the questioning.

Nonetheless, I still feel this is an important discussion to have. I recently tried advising someone who was in a horrifically abusive relationship, and it didn't end well. That isn't a mistake I want to repeat.

Quote:
My husband was killed in an accident before I was able to leave. For a long time I was so angry because the chance leave was taken away from me. I felt like he took one more thing from me. Yes, I know that is not rational.
It isn't irrational. Or if it is, it's still understandable that you'd feel robbed of the opportunity to make that choice. Victims of abuse have already had so many choices taken away, so it makes sense that they'd be sensitive to anything which tries to further disempower them, which is why...

Quote:
As for what didn't work... telling me to get out. Saying that women who leave are strong. The message behind that is "you're weak for staying." It was taking every last bit of courage I had one to make the internal changes I needed to make before I could leave. Yelling at someone who stays just compounds the problem. People saying "she should just leave" also compounds the problem. Don't judge another until you've walked in their shoes.
...this makes a lot of sense. From the perspective of someone who has their entire life micromanaged, they're probably going to be hyper-sensitive to any other attempt to coerce or manipulate them. When everyone around them starts getting pushy, calling them weak, yelling, etc., to the victim of abuse, it's just more attempts to control what they do.

To be fair, I don't think anyone intends to start yelling at victims of abuse in an attempt to convince them to leave. That's born out of frustration and fear, not a planned strategy. Not that it's an excuse. Just sayin'.

Quote:
But more than that I don't trust myself not to end up back in another abusive relationship.
Makes sense that you don't want to take the risk. But you don't think you'd recognize the signs now that you're more aware?
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Default Feb 22, 2020 at 02:11 PM
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by lizardlady View Post


I've been staying out of the threads about spouse abuse for the most part. The whole subject is a tough one for me. Some comments really bothered me, but I'm going to try to answer these questions.

I'm one of the ones who decided to leave. There was no thunderclap of a decision to go. Instead it was a glacially slow process. I didn't even realize I was being abused until my therapist asked me how often my husband abused me. I answered without thinking and said "He only hit me twice." Yeah, sitting on the outside looking in that's crazy sounding, but by that point I thought I deserved it.

Staying was complicated. I ran a business from our farm. I couldn't just leave. I had to be there for business. I also had to be there to care for the animals.
On an emotional level I couldn't leave. I thought if I just did whatever needed to be done to fix things it would be okay. On some level I believed I deserved the abuse. And the idea of being on my own scared the ever loving h e l l out of me. During a counseling session my therapist tried to get me to say ",I deserve to be treated with love and respect." I could not get the words out. I literally could not say the words out loud. But man alive I would repeat them in my head like a mantra when I got scared.

Finances were also a major obstacle. I had my own business but it did not generate enough money for me to live on. I decided I needed to go back to school for a new career. I still tell people I went back to school for a new career because I was afraid of being permanently injured in the business (I trained horses). The real reason was and still is to have enough income to support myself.

What helped me was damned hard work learning I did deserve to be treated with love and respect. Learning that I did NOT deserve to live in fear. That I did NOT deserve to be hurt.

There's been a lot of talk about brainwashing of the person abused. It took hindsight for me to realize that. It was years of chipping away at my self worth that got me beaten down so far.

My husband was killed in an accident before I was able to leave. For a long time I was so angry because the chance leave was taken away from me. I felt like he took one more thing from me. Yes, I know that is not rational.

As for what didn't work... telling me to get out. Saying that women who leave are strong. The message behind that is "you're weak for staying." It was taking every last bit of courage I had one to make the internal changes I needed to make before I could leave. Yelling at someone who stays just compounds the problem. People saying "she should just leave" also compounds the problem. Don't judge another until you've walked in their shoes.

Fear of being killed is very real. My husband's abuse was mostly verbal and emotional, but I was terrified he was going to kill me.

One last thing, my husband has been dead 20 years. I am unwilling to get into another relationship. In part because I love the life I've made for myself and don't want to have to make room for someone else. But more than that I don't trust myself not to end up back in another abusive relationship.
That's quite a story of struggle and survival and thanks for sharing it.

Good for you for returning to school to become more financially independent.

What I see often is that women, and I will speak of only women now, often stay in an abusive relationship because of lack of finances and the the financial ability to be on their own.

I am a member of many women's abuse groups and I see this issue all too often as being the cause of not being able to leave. I hear all too often "if only I had the financial ability, I would leave in a heartbeat".

This is why I think it's SO important that women in particular become financially secure and independent, in general. And that's hard to accomplish if a woman decides to have children, and then becomes a stay-at-home mother for many years. It's difficult to re-enter the workforce and earn a high rate of pay, unless she went to law school or was a doctor of MBA graduate.

It's a really tough predicament, especially for women.

I've always been lucky because I've always had a fallback with my family OR I've been independent enough where I've been able to leave an abusive situation.

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Default Feb 22, 2020 at 09:33 PM
  #14
Theoretical, no worries about your questions. Thank you for being open to learning more. There have been some comments, not questions, in other threads by several posters I found difficult to deal with. Speaking from my own experience, having someone harang me only beat me down even more.

As for another relationship, no I don't trust myself to recognize the signs even with what I know now. I'm a different person than I was when I met my husband, but she still lives inside me. I'm afraid I could get sucked in again.

Hope, I agree about finances keeping so many people trapped.

Christina, that means a lot coming from you.
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Default Feb 24, 2020 at 07:42 PM
  #15
Hm, seems I killed the thread. Sorry.
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Default Feb 24, 2020 at 11:47 PM
  #16
You didn’t kill the thread. This is a topic that can be hard for people to decide if they want to share or not there own stories.

I have my own we weren’t married but abuse is abuse and staying or not staying is complex, I’m mulling over whether my sharing here would be helpful or hurtful for myself or anyone reading this. So I’m just going to think on it a bit longer

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Default Feb 25, 2020 at 04:28 AM
  #17
Ok so.. years ago I was divorced for about 5-6 years I finally started to date.. I met some nice guys but it wouldn’t work out because I had no intention of introducing anyone to my daughter until I got to know them like 6 +months plus. So it limited time I had available.

Well I met this one guy , really nice, wasn’t pushy , he understood from day one that I had limited time due to my daughter.. he was fine with it. Probably over 6 months later I introduced him to my daughter she was 9 , they hit it off well, things were going well even my mom thought he was a nice guy. He moved in a couple months later. Fast forward just over a year later

I’m at my GYN ‘s office and he’s telling me he is sending the biopsies out but wanted me in surgery for a hysterectomy next week. Something out of the blue.

I got in my car and sat there thinking I needed to call my friend X ... it was like everything in a flash black.. it started so slow I didn’t even notice, he had slowly cut off my seeing friends etc etc I realized I was with a scary man , I couldn’t believe I didnt see it happen but faced with Cancer things became crystal clear. He had never physically abused me, but mentally yes.. he was always calling to see where I was , why was I late getting home from work , I worked for doctors , I’m done when the last patient is done. He use to get so angry.

So I called my mom and asked her to pick up my daughter from school..

I went home , he was at work. I sent an email to 3 people I knew I could trust asking for help.

I went to my moms.. he starts calling at about 5... all I’m telling my mom about is my needing surgery , I didn’t want her to worry about him... he kept calling and calling , I finally answered said I got stuck in traffic but I’d be there soon.

I asked my Mom to keep my daughter.

I went home , walked in the door and he was in my face in a rage.. he had spyware on my computer , he knew every keystroke.. he’s screaming at me about my email I sent my friends.

I told him he had to leave , now . Get out now ... my phone started ringing it was my friend Mike he heard Ben yelling when I answered he said he’s on his way to hang up and call 911... things got blurry I didn’t call 911 I just started picking up his things up and throwing them in the driveway , I remember yanking off a necklace he had given me and dropped it on the piles of things I had tossed out , he kept screaming , he threw some things I kept grabbing his things and throwing them out.

My neighbor heard the yelling and called 911 thankfully. Because all at once he’s grabbing me , slams me into a wall telling me he’s never leaving , he owns me blah blah blah I literally started laughing ..like a hysterical kind of laugh , he slapped me a few times , probably punched me more than once. But I literally thought it was just absurd.. I have Cancer and I’m literally taking his clothes and tossing them outside in my driveway my neighbors would enjoy this

Cops come screeching with lights blaring...they look at me and they had him on the ground in cuffs

One officer takes me inside, I’m pretty banged up . I honestly didn’t feel anything I was in shock. He starts asking me questions my friend Mike shows up , he lived almost an hour away how he got to my house in less than 20 mins I had no idea.

The officer told me under normal circumstances I’d have to legally evict him since he had been living there over 30 days. But of course he was being arrested, they asked what started it .. I explained I had seen my doctor I have cancer and he had to go he had groomed me and I didn’t even know it.

I told the police I had to get his stuff out of my home, I was the owner. The cop looked at my friend Mike and said can you help her get his stuff out ? They allowed Ben to call his father to come get his stuff. Mike and I just started taking anything of Bens out of the house, in 35 mins we were done , the garage door closed..

His dad showed up started screaming .. Mike took care of that. My other friend showed up ( he’s my husband now) he had a friend coming to put on new locks and put in an alarm system that night. Both Mike and Steve stayed with me that night, and one of them stayed each night until I went for surgery

I had surgery a week later. Ben spent 10-11 days in jail and started stalking me once he got out , I went to the police , paperwork etc etc ... 2-3 weeks of him constantly driving by my house so I sat in a lawn chair next to my mailbox one night of course he drove by many times, he finally pulled up and stopped, I said “ see what’s in my hand”? I raised it up .... if you ever come near me again I have no problem using it. That was the last time I heard him , maybe he drove by in a different car. Mike told me later a couple days after Ben got out of jail he beat the hell out of him.

About 5-6 months later I realized I just had to sell my house I could no longer live there.

Anyways long ramble I know but I guess the point is women often find themselves in a abusive relationship because people like Ben know how to slowly fence some one in and they not notice it until something major happens and for me it was “ cancer”

I had friends in abusive relationships, controlling boyfriends or husbands. I never would have dreamed I’d be one

He was 6’7 so if I see someone really tall I kinda freeze for a moment. I’m glad my husband is only 3 inches taller than me lol

It’s been 16 years and I hope he has died in some horrific way.

So anyone trying to help a friend or family member get out of an abusive relationship understand they might not realize they are in one. So handle with care.

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Default Feb 25, 2020 at 06:41 AM
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Thanks Christina. Excellent point about being gentle with people.
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Default Feb 25, 2020 at 03:25 PM
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Thanks, Christina. I'm glad you kicked him out and threw all his **** in the yard. Mad props.

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Originally Posted by ~Christina View Post
He had never physically abused me, but mentally yes.. he was always calling to see where I was , why was I late getting home from work , I worked for doctors , I’m done when the last patient is done. He use to get so angry.

So anyone trying to help a friend or family member get out of an abusive relationship understand they might not realize they are in one. So handle with care.
In retrospect, why do you think it took something big to recognize his controlling behavior? Did people around you recognize it? Do you think it would've helped if someone had tried to tell you?
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Default Feb 25, 2020 at 06:33 PM
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We calmly and methodically gave the ‘red flags’ speech, but it fell on deaf ears. Time will tell if those warning signs turn into real problems. Maybe we were wrong.

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