Venting and sorting thoughts.... Kinda long

A quick background.

Me, mid-forties, married to same woman for almost 20 years, 3 kids. Large extended family. Adult child of recovered alcoholic. Pretty over-responsible, and feel some anxiety or insecurity about losing people/relationships.

My wife has chronic illness, chronic pain and fatigue that onset in 2013-2014. Other chronic conditions prior to that. She grew up in a narcissistic home. She is easily emotionally injured. She is no contact with her family since 2017. She has had multiple false starts with her career and education since 2012, due to illness and economics.

Back in 2012 she found out I was looking at porn periodically on our home computer. This was devastating to her in a way that I never foresaw, and I regret ever doing it. I saw sex as something I was on my own to figure out... We routinely went 6-12 months with no physical contact other than me holding her, rubbing her back or her neck or something of that nature, so I accepted that sexual release wasn't something I could turn to her for much. I should never have lied and deceived her.

She is 100% devoted to me, but I feel she has never made my needs enough of a priority. She lives with major anxiety disorder and depression, which sometimes goes hand in hand with physical illnesses and physical pain.

Given the choice between doing something to mitigate her anxiety or looking after my feelings, on a daily basis, her anxiety wins every time.

We have not watched a movie or a sporting event of my choice once in the last 5 years. If I do those things, I do them alone. She has never taken part in any past time or hobby with me outside our home. I've given up past times and friendships in recent years because me taking time outside our home causes her stress.

Once in the last 3 years she said, "Would you like a neck rub? You must be tired," and that stands out because I have no memory of it happening before or since. She gave me a compliment on my appearance one day last year, and it was so startling I brought it up in counselling. I got one once so far in 2020 as well. She is complimented daily on appearance, on smarts, on parenting.

She has told me, many times, she doesn't crave sex because she has erotic dreams that satisfy her. Sex is something that happens because I want/need it, but she doesn't physically, and she doesn't need it emotionally.

She desires contact, not sex. And the contact is me touching or holding her, not the other way.

Things have shifted a lot around here since the pandemic. I realized that I have always been extremely attracted to my wife, and that I've hung on this long because I always felt like if I could get everything right, I would get the validation from her that I needed. Her validation removes my anxiety about our relationship, with sex being the ultimate validation.

Now, in this situation, I have realized a number of things:

- I'm not in touch with my family very much, as it stresses her out. She wants my complete attention, so I am not calling my elderly parents more than twice a week.
- We've been locked down at home for 6 weeks. She still complains daily that we don't have enough time together as a couple or as a family.
- I do way, way more than her. She lost her job. I am working from home. I am still the one making meals, grocery shopping, and home schooling the kids, doing laundry..... I knew her illnesses meant things were tipped in that direction, but the degree of it was never apparent to me.
- She mitigates her anxiety and pain by doing things that relax her, like artwork, for 3- 6 hours a day. Meanwhile I am doing my job requirements in less than 4-6 hours a day so that I can look after kids and house.. I am up 6 hours before her every day.
- The course she is taking online can be put aside for days at a time. On a day she decides to work on it, it is all consuming. She won't surface from our room for 10 hours or more, skipping meals, and skipping all other responsibilities because she is so busy and so anxious about this class.
- I will never have the validation I seek from her and I have to mitigate my own anxiety and negative feelings.
- No worry I feel will be as strong as hers. No illness or pain I feel will be as strong as hers. No loss I feel within my family will be as strong as her losses. I don't know what it's like. These are things she has actually said to me in recent weeks when I have turned to her.

Facing these last two things has changed our relationship dramatically. I'm not frantically trying to look after her or "get things right" anymore. I'm not trying to initiate sex anymore. The one-sided touching and contact doesn't do anything for me, so I've stopped.

In the last week, I've begun just sitting and letting the house be dirty at times. She's angry about it, but when she says something, I have pointed out all the things I've already done that day and that I'm ready for a break. Then I put on a show I want to watch.

She complains that the kids are up too late, and I point out they are on the same schedule as her. I can't look after them between 6am and noon when I am working so they sleep in and are up late.

She has complained about me not being around enough. I've pointed out I am still working and doing kids' homeschooling, that she is laid off from her part time job. At no time have I worked through the late afternoon and evening, even though those allowances are made for her course work or art work. At no time has she taken additional responsibilities so that I could work uninterrupted. I've pointed out these things.

I've told her what is behind everything I am doing. There is no "silent treatment" from me. I've told her, I will never have validation from her, so I am no longer worrying about saying or doing the wrong thing, or prioritizing her needs, or her anxieity, more than mine or the kids'.

I have been clear I want more contact and more intimacy, not less, that I want more positivity, but this one sided stuff is done, it's over. That was a few weeks ago. I've not her a positive or complimentary comment, or gotten a positive touch from her since.

I have also confronted, quietly to myself prior to this, that doing all these things may actually cause her to leave me. If so, then I am trying to accept that.

I feel less anxiety, more healthy, like this. I'm scared, but I feel less inner turmoil than I have in years.

I'm a good person. I look after the people in my life, emotionally and physically. I'm good at my job. I'm good at being a dad, a husband, and a son. I'm not waiting to hear it from my wife anymore.

RDM

Your wife honestly sounds very needy, whiny, selfish and demanding. Sorry, but that’s what I see in your details and story. This is an unequal relationship where her needs matter most and take priority and where none of your own needs matter to her or have any priority to her. That’s why I say she is selfish and why things are not equal in your relationship. If that were me, I would leave and would not put up with that. The only real solution may be to see a couples counselor, if you want to try and change things for the better. But she needs to know and realize there’s a huge imbalance here and that she demands all the attention. It’s not fair or right that even your sexual needs are not met, and that she doesn’t seem to even care. But then she’s hurt by you using porn? She can’t have it both ways. If she’s not satisfying you, naturally you may turn to other means. Im actually surprised you haven’t cheated. You must have strong morals, and perhaps even strong love for her still. That’s a sure recipe for someone to cheat. Not that I condone it, just saying it would be understandable in your situation.

Hugs to you. I’m sorry you’re going through this. It sounds very frustrating. But good for you for pulling back and for taking care of yourself. I commend you.

I'm sorry you're in such a one-sided relationship. I hope once the quarantine is over you can figure things out. That may mean separating.

So she doesn’t work (or even when she did it was only part time) and doesn’t do housework and doesn’t help with the kids. In addition she is not kind and loving (even if sex was too painful for her, she should show kindness snd affection in other ways).

Sadly if you divorce her, you’d likely to pay substantial spousal support to her per court order (not talking about child support, talking about alimony to ex spouse).

Whenever people stay with such spouses long enough, they end up paying spousal support through their nose. Sometimes for 10-15 years or longer and those payments are always unfairly high. If you stay 30 years, you might end up paying her until SS age, especially if she has health issues

She either has to get a full time job (if she can paint for 6 hours, she can get a job) and provide or if her health doesn’t allow that, she needs to do ALL household tasks and be nice and loving wife and mother. Or she has to go. ASAP.

If you leave now, your spousal support might not be as high. Longer you stay, more you’ll pay.

I am sorry you and your children have to live like this.

I want to say that this sounds like a one-sided relationship. I get her anxiety and depression which, I'm sure, can be debilitating. What stands out to me though is her willingness to receive affection "her" way and that's it. Also, telling you her erotic dreams are "enough" for "her" but won't allow you to watch porn. Sex is a need.

She sounds asexual to me, which is fine, but she's married to someone who clearly needs physical and sexual contact. You should not be expected to suppress that, 100%. Either have sex with your wife, watch porn as much as you need, or find sex elsewhere. Ask her to choose which one she feels most comfortable with.

Will she be open to allowing you to have a side sexual partner? If not, will porn even be enough for you?

Don't feel guilty.

Is she on disability if she is unable to work?

Anxiety and depression has always been a concern for her, as well as some chronic health issues. Truly, on a daily basis, if I need some down time, and she is dealing with her anxiety, looking after the anxiety takes priority.

I knew that since the start, and accepted it... In sickness and in health, right?

She had a career she left over 12 years ago to be home with the kids more. She hasnt been able to restart.

She used to be far more receptive to my family. Once she went no contact with hers, it felt like too big of a disparity, so she began requesting less and less involvement with mine.

She also took increasing issue that I shared stuff about me, my work accomplishments and our family with my parents. Honestly, I did those things because I wanted a little positivity, and a little moral support. So, I stopped sharing stuff like that about 4 years ago.

Most of the positivity and moral support I receive now comes from my team at work. We're good to each other.

My wife views my actions as cheating, truly. She regularly talks about my infidelity and cheating. I have never interacted with a person in any way... not a call, text, email, lunch, nothing at all, not a flirt, not an innuendo, . .Nothing. We've gone as much as 3 years with no sex, but I've hated myself, deeply, for viewing porn.

When I have said that to her, she has pointed out times I went to lunch with other women.... Yes, business lunches, with 3 to 10 other people there, men and women both, as a requirement for work.
Doesn't matter, I had lunch with other women.

As a dad, I have never missed a practice a game, a concert, or a teacher meeting. I get them to the bus every morning, and pack lunches, and do home work and night routines every night, by myself. When they are or were scared at night, they came to my side of the bed.

I accepted my workload was and would be higher because of illness, but I always just did it. This is the first time I am home all day and seeing it, and seeing the disparities in responsibilities.

I thought my wife was beautiful and intelligent. She did a lot, an awful lot, in our early years to support us and support me. I was always afraid I would lose her, that she was too good for me. I have never miseed an up or down in her life, and have driven her to all doctor appointments for years.

This stuff is all, just.... True. God I'm tired.

I don't want to hate myself any more. I'm human, I weakened. I'm a good person. I'm a good dad, husband, worker, and team mate at work. I'm not chasing my wife any more and hoping that she stays.

What happens happens.

RDM

You are a good man. Sending you many hugs and my support. Seeing how many women struggle finding good husbands, it’s sad that your hard work doesn’t seem to be appreciated by your wife. But I am sure you will be appreciated by your children and are appreciated by your coworkers

This quote really stands out for me. It sounds like you really have put your all into this relationship and family. There's really nothing more you can do.

Don't hate yourself. In fact, I'm wondering if her tendencies are even abusive. It's very isolating!

Yes, you are a good and decent man. It sounds like she changed over the years, and for worse. That is not right for her to make demands on you with your own family like that. I’m disliking your wife very much right now and am angry at her on your behalf. What she’s doing to you is unacceptable in my opinion. It’s not loving behavior and there’s nothing equal or reciprocal in this relationship. It’s pure selfishness on her part, like I said above. It’s not fair to you.

So why do you stay at this point, I wonder? For the kids? Or is this possibly the beginnings of the end for you? Sounds like it could very well be.

Have Hope many people live in bad situations until kids are closer to adulthood. Many are afraid that if they don’t get full custody and will not be with kids full time, kids will be abused or neglected or mistreated. Many are afraid for financial reasons. And many are threatened. So at least waiting until kids are somewhat grown might protect them

My husband still has a file with my husband’s ex’s threats to him if he divorced her, he kept it because it would be an evidence if something did happen to him. It’s irrelevant now so we might destroy it at some point. I don’t want to hijack the thread but people stay for some scary reasons

Not saying it’s the case with OP but likely reason is kids and guilt and sense of responsibility etc

And at this point he’d have to support himself, his kids, his ex and maintain two separate households. It can’t be easy

Oh I know this. I get it. I was just asking if it’s for the kids.

I know you get it. I generally don’t ever advocate for sticking around for any reasons but I am just trying to understand some paralyzing fears people might have.

Yeah... I completely understand that. I won’t hijack the thread or make it about me at all, but my own marriage has some problems and it’s rather complicated even without kids. There are times when I think I should leave him, but then it’s complicated.

Anyways, I understand how relationships can be rather complex and not so black and white. Add years together, a long history, kids, a home with a mortgage perhaps, finances and then maybe even conflicted feelings and it all becomes even more complex.

I don't see it as hijacking.

I see it as sharing. And I appreciate it. Thank you.

I've always felt like if I did enough, she'd want me. It never happened.

I grew up working, truly. Running equipment at 15. Driving trucks by 19. Building houses by 21.

Now I'm in an office job with a lot of autonomy. I am able to exceed targets and rarely put in even 35 hours a week working (before covid). I'm good at my job, which makes more time for home.

At home, I always just accepted there was work and lots of it, and accepted that marriage isn't 50-50. There are times and tasks that one partner has to carry the burden.

I never saw how much it was until now. Wow.

Five weeks ago she asked me to sleep downstairs. I did, and took the time to think... I realized, there WAS no more i could do, and I wasn't good enough.

I began letting go.

As for counselling, we did, years ago. She isnt open to it again.

At the end of one session, the counselor grabbed 10 seconds alone with me and said, "what she is looking for doesnt exist. "

I took that as a challenge, because no one out works me.

RDM

How old are your children if I may ask?

Her asking to sleep apart is alarming unless there is a legitimate reason for it like snoring or incompatible sleep schedule.

Thank you for saying that. I always want to be careful not to turn someone else's thread into something about myself.

You sound like an amazing worker with a very strong work ethic, a great and loving father, and a giving, loving caretaker and hard worker within your marriage as well. You sound like you really give everything your all -- including your marriage. If anything, you can't say that you haven't tried your best in this marriage.

I don't think it's you or you not being good enough -- it seems like you've done everything you possibly can. Literally -- everything.

Since you didn't ask for advice, I won't offer any. But I think a vent might merit an observation, which is: be careful what you wish for. If I had a nickel for every man who complains about his self-centered wife, I'd have a lot of nickels. There is something about these women that men find irresistable, so irresistable they marry them. And same goes for women and their self-centered hubs. I don't doubt it goes for same sex relationships too. In my experience, most people either rise to the level of expectation...or they book. So before you take either of those ideas as criticism--they are not. I think there are a lot of different kinds of women in the world, and it seems to me like the kind your wife is, is powerfully attractive to men. You said yourself you had a powerful attraction to her. My other observation, well, I've seen it in business and in my private life. People either live up to our expectations (and by that I mean they live up to the knowledge they have of our expectations) or they leave. It's human nature.

Yes it’s common. People go for these partners. They are often charmers and try to make other people to think like they aren’t measuring up so people’s start feeling inadequate and stick around until they are sucked in too deep. They are often quite manipulative so it takes awhile to figure out what’s happening.

I dated few self absorbed men. They had no problem finding women. No one stuck around long enough to commit, including yours truly, but they still had no problem finding women to date

Is it possible she's having an affair?