Going through couples counseling with someone who has been abusive

I'm still going to put away money each month for myself in case I need to leave him. I can save a good amount, about $9,000 by next May/June when our lease is up. Then, I can determine if I need to leave him.... or not. If it needs to happen sooner, I will be right back to where I was a week ago, planning a divorce.

Saving money is very wise!!!

Yes definitely do save that money!

I do have a tip for you. After I have gone through many years of my marital dysfunction, I know there’s a pattern, and it is basically the model of the cycle of abuse (see attached image).

It took me a long time to recognize there was a pattern, which I saw on my own, then eventually proved it to my husband, now have explained it to our new therapist. He had us write it all down. This is very helpful. We will both be held accountable and figure out really what is happening and solve it once and for all, please for the love of God!

If an abuser agrees it is all them at fault and they are in the wrong etc is it reconciliation/apologetic stage or calm stage?

I also think that people become addicted to the cycle of abuse. Fights followed by romantic encounters with love gestures and intimacy and being treated with special things like gifts and flowers likely feels good for both. No wonder people like make up sex. Sadly the “high” can’t last forever

I am giving him the benefit of the doubt right now. I am personally not addicted to the cycle of abuse, so I really hope that's not what you meant, Divine. That is NOT me.

I am ready to leave at any time.

We just had another serious conversation about all this. He is serious. We shall see.

He might be addicted to it though because he seemed to be always very romantic after fights. Not saying he can’t break the pattern after he became aware of his behaviors and hopefully working on it in therapy. He just seems to gravitate towards these extreme high and lows in a relationship and he switches between them unusually quickly (like he’d yell in the morning but have good times and be romantic few hours later- don’t mean sexual) but hopefully he can continue working on it and stop the cycle of ups and downs

Agreed. He wants to do better, and I see that in him.

I’d say it is the reconciliation/apologetic stage, then would come the calm stage before once again, the abusive stage.

HH, you have not had this cycle happen so many times that it has become an addiction, but I sure have.

Also, don’t most couples have occasional arguments and make up with flowers and such? Arguments and make up, at a reasonable level of dysfunction, are normal.

I am concerned that he doesn't understand the magnitude of what's happened. He has been making a serious effort, and he's trying hard. He's been on his best behavior, and he's noticeably making changes in how he responds to me (for the better).

But last night it seemed like he wanted me to forget all that's happened, and just trust him at his word that it won't happen again. He doesn't understand that he had promised me before we married that he would never raise his voice at me again, then broke that promise at least a dozen times. I had to remind him this morning that it's going to take time to rebuild trust, and that it won't happen overnight just because he's on his best behavior. I told him I need to see over time that his actions match and back up his words. I also reminded him that it's going to take time to heal what has already happened, and that it will take the help of a professional counselor.

He thinks that everything should be OK now that he seems to have had this epiphany. He doesn't seem to grasp that I cannot do a 180 degree turnaround that quickly. He needs to understand and absorb that this is going to take time... both changes in him, and changes in me. He needs to earn my trust again.

That’s right. Working with the therapist is important. You need to really end this toxic dynamic or it will become an addictive cycle of abuse, or the next time he yells you will leave.

He is trying to brush it under the rug, promising it will never happen again. Can you imagine that my h and I have done this dance for over 20 years?

Yes.... and the next time it happens, I AM divorcing him. There's no question about that. He's been warned, and he knows this.

He just seems to believe that he can make it all better now by treating me like a queen for a week. He doesn't understand that it's going to take a lot more than that. It's going to take consistent effort on his part, and permanent changes in his behaviors. I need to see more than just one week's worth of behavioral changes. It concerns me that this is how he is thinking.

He took me out for a fine dinner last night. He treated me because he knew I had had a really bad couple of days at work.

Maybe I should not have mentioned after dinner anything about divorce and what I had been thinking just last week. The reason I even brought it up is because it seemed like he wanted me to forget everything that had happened, to trust him now and to move forward based solely on his new promises. It made me upset, so I reminded him of what I had been thinking of doing only just one week ago. This was right after he had treated me to a nice meal, on the drive home. He's now making me feel guilty for having said something, because he now feels sad.

But I should not feel guilty for having to remind him of where we truly are right now. Just because he treats me to a nice meal does not erase the incredibly nasty words he has hurled at me in a moment of rage, and only just TWO weeks ago on his birthday when he was yelling at me again. He has been hateful towards me, and words DO stick. I remember nearly all the nasty words he has thrown at me. Hateful is how I can describe the behavior -- certainly not loving.

As my best buddy Arthur always says, "throw enough s-h-i-t at the barn door, and it will stick". That's what it is like for me.

He is sad because he caused this problem, I learned over text this morning.

I tried to give him encouragement. I told him that I see the changes in him, that he's doing a great job and to keep doing what he is doing. I feel I need to give him positive reinforcement for the positive changes I do see in him. He needs that from me. And I do still love him.

I still haven't identified a therapist yet. In the meantime, I feel like I am on him lately about every little thing he does that displeases me.

For example, last night he took me out for dinner. At dinner, I was talking about my college girlfriend with whom I had scheduled a phone date to finally catch up and talk. She lives across the country. So I was talking about her, and ended up feeling sad afterwards, in acknowledging that several of my closest college girlfriends live across the country and out of state and that I really missed them. We got in the car to drive home, and I was feeling really sad that I cannot see these particular girlfriends and that I infrequently am able to see my friends altogether. He has a huge group of friends living nearby, but I do not. Mine are all scattered, and I don't have a "group". I have a collection of individual friends, but no actual group to hang out with. We see his friends fairly regularly, and I rarely am able to see my own friends, typically due to scheduling conflicts. So I was sad.

Well, I told him I was feeling sad, and while in the car and in response he tells me, Ok, now let's only talk about rainbows, puppy dogs and kittens, meaning happy things. I felt cut off and dismissed as a result.

So I told him this. I told him I need him to sit with me when I am feeling down... that life is not all puppy dogs, rainbows and kittens right now. That life kind of sucks right now. He ended up telling me that he had had a very long work day and couldn't take any more.

So basically, I wasn't getting my needs met. I wanted to talk about it, and I wanted his sympathies and attention. I felt discouraged as a result, and dismissed.

So now I am wondering: can he really be there for me and give me what I need emotionally? He is often like this when he's had a very stressful day at work. But I need to feel supported too. I support him and give him my sympathy and attention all the time. He gives me a limited amount of time, then he wants to change the subject to something happier or more positive. It's like he cannot tolerate a sad or upsetting topic for very long because he's on overload.

It's a question in my mind now. I also wonder if I need TOO much. I do need a lot of emotional support, and I have no way to measure or know if I need too much from a partner. Maybe it's too much for him, in particular.

On the plus side, he did not react in anger. He took my feedback in stride, whereas previously, he would have reacted defensively and with anger or frustration.

It’s important to be supportive of one’s spouse. But it’s also important to have other forms of support like therapy and friends and perhaps other family members.

It’s hard to tell how much support is enough and how to meet everyone’s needs, I think balance is important and it just comes naturally etc

Also timing matters. Not defending your husband but if we go on a date to a restaurant I personally don’t want depressing talk and I don’t want one after a work day. Sometimes timing is important. Of course if a person is never supportive and expects you be happy jolly at all times, then it’s a problem. Or if they mope a lot themselves but then don’t allow their partner to complain it’s a problem

We had so much illness and deaths and other disasters in our families since we’ve met that we’d never make it if we didn’t support each other in hardships. Having said that, when I am out on a date, I am there to have a good time and I don’t want to listen to sad stuff (unless it’s emergency). I’d rather that conversation happen later on.

Again not saying you shouldn’t share something sad. Just giving a different perspective

Thanks so much. It's something for me to think about, especially the timing piece. I do rely on other sources for support too, but I think your point about timing is legitimate and something I could consider in the future. I apprecIate the different perspective.

I agree that sad topics shouldn't dominate a date night, but sarcastic remarks like "puppy dogs and rainbows" are inappropriate as well. He could have listened, empathized, then changed the subject to something positive going on in his life or the world around him. This is a learned behavior of his that can be broken if he is willing.

Most likely he was thinking that the date was too depressing and if he can't lighten the mood himself, he could tell you politely that he was hoping for a more upbeat night and that his expectations were dashed.

It sounds like you are willing to take that advice here in the forums without getting defensive, so I would imagine you could do the same with him if he approched you with love.

If you get to couples therapy, consider bringing up sarcasm. It's a poor front for hidden anger. I used to struggle with using sarcasm myself. It's fun to rib my guy friends at work with sarcasm, but in a relationship, it's never a good idea in my opinion.

Thanks, guy.

To clarify, I didn't make dinner depressing. I talked about funny stories of my girlfriend mainly, and at the end of dinner, I mentioned that I felt sad because I haven't seen much of my friends.

Then I mentioned it a second time in the car on the drive home. So it's not like I made dinner totally depressing.... I got sad at the end of my story telling.

Also, his tone wasn't one of sarcasm. He wanted me to change the subject. And he does this often when he's had enough of what I am talking about, IF it is a sad or upsetting topic. It's not like I go on and on and on forever, or as though i am constantly talking about sad or negative things. Not at all. BUT WHEN I DO, he cannot listen to it for very long, he wants to change the subject & limits me on how much I can say and talk about when it comes to those topics. I don't always feel fully emotionally supported as a result. Which is not to say he cannot be supportive at all - he can be. But it doesn't come easily or naturally to him like it does for me. And especially when he's had a long and stressful work day is when his limit is reached more quickly. Even on the weekends though, he wants to avoid any and all stressful topics.

Sometimes I feel I cannot be totally real with him.

And now that I've been laid off, my current health insurance carrier will change in the next few weeks. That means that I need to identify a counselor under the NEW insurance plan and not the old. In a way, it's good that we didn't start therapy yet given the change in my circumstances.

We did have a bit of an incident last night where I felt he became rather manipulative of my emotions. He tried to turn something around on me, and now I forget the details, but I called him out on it. He did not raise his voice, and it did not turn into a fight or argument. It did not escalate, so that's good, but I did get upset with him.