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Lily11
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Trig Aug 11, 2020 at 07:43 PM
  #1
Hi, I have a problem and I feel so guilty but I don’t really know how to feel after talking to my therapist today. I have been with my boyfriend for a year and we live together. He was out of town and I had a male friend visit. This male friend and I have always hooked up when we see each other and have known each other like 10 years. However he is such a good friend of mine I trust him with my deepest secrets and sometimes he’s the only one I can talk to about stuff other people wouldn’t understand about my mental heath. He lives out of state. He visited this time and I said I am very serious about that the guy I am with and I can’t hook up with him. We went out and did stuff all day and had a lot of fun together but he was telling me he loves me and always will his whole life. I feel kind of the same way but I love my partner more and I know I want him in my life forever and was sure I didn’t want to hook up. However I don’t want to lose this friend either but I just want to be friends now and not hook up anymore. We’ve always kind of said we love each other the whole time we’ve known each other but I love him more in a friend way I suppose I don’t want to be with him like as a husband. He’s in a relationship too and has been for like 8 years. So he has been cheating when we hooked up in the past. Well this visit we went out all day and I have major anxiety and being out in the crowds and with the virus I was scared of being around people so I started having bad anxiety. He suggested buying some alcohol (at 2pm) and having some drinks. I had a lot of the bottle of vodka we bought after that but he really didn’t have much since he never really drinks. So he was sober I would say. We had dinner after and he got sake at dinner. When we got back to my house I was really drunk. He wanted me to dance so I did and was having fun. Next thing he was taking off my clothes. I said I didn’t really want to but went along and told him to wear a condom it was very important. After the sex I noticed the condom was lying on the floor. He had taken it off! I was mad. Anyway we hung out a bit after then went to bed. The next day I felt so guilty. I didn’t tell my boyfriend when I saw him. I don’t want to ruin what we have. I see him as my future husband! I saw my therapist today and she said I had told him I didn’t want to, then he suggested alcohol and saw I drank a lot and then had sex with me, which is actually sexual assault. Now I feel even worse that my friend could do that and to me. My therapist asked is he really your friend if he didn’t respect what you had told him and took advantage of you being drunk? I know being intoxicated is the only reason I did this. I am so upset about it all. I don’t know how to feel. I just want to cry. I know the truth is the best but I can’t lose my boyfriend. I was sexually assaulted in the past (I have PTSD from it) and to be told this by my therapist made me very upset I guess I was taken advantage of. I love this friend but should I even be his friend anymore? On top of that he owes me a few thousand dollars! I am just so upset. I feel like an awful person and don’t know what to do going forward. I want my boyfriend and me to have complete honestly but now I’m a liar.

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Last edited by CANDC; Aug 11, 2020 at 09:39 PM.. Reason: Add trigger icon
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Default Aug 11, 2020 at 11:18 PM
  #2
I am so sorry you had to experience this, Lily. I am sure there are many life lessons in this, like not drinking when alone w an "ex" you have hooked up w before, etc. But to me, none of that matters actually. No means no. Every male in America knows this. Get your money and ditch this loser.

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Default Aug 12, 2020 at 05:47 AM
  #3
HI there. I am very sorry for your current turmoil and situation.

I disagree that it was sexual assault, however. You told him to get a condom, therefore, it was consensual sex. Had you been saying 'no' the whole time, and had he physically forced himself upon you, it would have been sexual assault. Saying no at first, but then "went along" and telling him to get a condom is consensual sex.

Also, he bought the alcohol because you said you were anxious, NOT because you were saying no to sex. That's according to your post. Drinking alcohol with a friend with whom you've had previous sex is a recipe for disaster and will likely lead to sex. You must have known this on some level.

In my opinion, you took a huge risk by inviting someone over with whom you've hooked up previously. You knew the risk and you knew the history.

Perhaps some part of you wanted to have sex again with your friend. Otherwise, WHY did you invite him over when your boyfriend was out of town, of all times? I think you invited this sexual experience because on some level, you were aware of the risk and your boyfriend was conveniently out of town.

And perhaps you caved and had sex with him because you were also afraid to lose him as a friend? Could that be true? If that's the case, he's not truly your friend, if you're worried he only cares about you because he can have sex with you.

Also, a true friend wouldn't put the moves on someone who says they're very serious and committed to their boyfriend. He should have respected your boundaries verses dancing with you and taking off your clothes when you were drunk. So he DID take advantage of the situation, in my opinion, and he took advantage of YOU.

So you now have to face the consequences of your actions. Either you tell your boyfriend and be honest, or you keep it a secret and it will eat you up inside due to the dishonesty.

I don't think you are ready for marriage, or else you would not have cheated on your boyfriend, and you would not have invited this man over while he was out of town.

I would at the very least, reconsider your "friendship" with this man. As I said, that is no true friend, someone who will take advantage. He was not respectful.

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Last edited by Have Hope; Aug 12, 2020 at 06:15 AM..
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Default Aug 12, 2020 at 09:15 AM
  #4
The biggest concern is first that you didn’t get an STD or pregnant. You don’t want to give an STD to your bf, if you did get one.

Then there is the issue to decide what kind of relationship you want with your bf, who you say you want to marry. Did he know you were seeing this FWB while he was away? Would he have approved of that had he known? Are you okay with yourself for having done that behind his back? Are you going to continue to have that kind of relationship? Is it okay for your bf to do the same? There are open relationships. It’s up to you, but it’s only fair to be up front about it and you both be in agreement on it.

Then there’s the relationship with this FWB. You have confusion that he is just a friend, when you know that you have sex with him. He knows it, you know it, it got fueled with alcohol and ended up in sex. No, he doesn’t really have respect for you and your commitment to your bf. He plied you with alcohol until he got to sex with you, as he wanted. Taking off the condom is really concerning behavior (again, fear of repercussions from that).

When I was a 16 y/o virgin 100 years ago , I was slipped a drug and date raped by a 19 y/o I didn’t even know before that first date. I didn’t say no, but I didn’t say yes. I didn’t understand I was drugged or even that there was such a thing as date rape. I did tell him to put on a condom. I had the presence of mind to think of the protection that would provide from pregnancy and STDs, even though I did not have the presence of mind to start screaming and run from his house.

Today, it seems agreed that it’s rape when you are too incapacitated to use good judgment. You were due to being very drunk, which you did willingly. I agree, you were taken advantage of and you also brought it on yourself. It’s something to further explore in therapy. IDK if you need or want to tell your bf and throw away any chance of a life together. It’s a very personal decision for you. Talk with your therapist more.

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Default Aug 12, 2020 at 10:23 AM
  #5
Decent men don’t have sex with drunk women who can’t give proper consent. He isn’t a friend. End it. Go see your doctor and check for STDs ASAP.
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Default Aug 12, 2020 at 10:39 AM
  #6
Hi @Lily11 welcome to Psych Central. First of all, it's good that you sat down and wrote out what you shared here. There are times where all of us act on impulse or go along with something and choose to do things that result in consequences that are not good.

What you shared about this guy that you have known for 10 years and the two of you were not only friends but also had sex together means that this guy is basically viewing you as agreeable to both friendship and sexual intimacy. And over the years you have probably had alcohol, gotten drunk and had sex with him. And my guess is that you also both saw other people. Well, that's very similar to having an open marriage where both partners agree to seeing other people. As you mentioned, he had a girlfriend for 8 years and still met up with you and the two of you were intimate. So, it's reasonable for him to think that even though you are seeing someone you supposedly love that it's ok for him to see you and be intimate too. I am not going to tell you this guy is a bad person or isn't a friend because YOU set up this relationship to function a certain way that YOU felt you needed and it had been an understanding with the two of you. I have never done that, not my thing so my boundaries are different than yours. So, now that you feel the way you do, you are going to change your boundaries with this friend. You know what you no longer care to do with him too.

Just because this therapist mentioned she was leaning towards rape, doesn't mean it was rape. It's important to think about the history of this relationship and my guess is that you had sex with him lots of times when you were drunk. And both of you were probably seeing other people too. So the two of you got used to having open boundaries when it came to being intimate. And for all you know or we know, this may have been something you chose to do so you could feel safe being intimate with someone despite being sexually assaulted. Maybe it was your way of regaining your sense of personal power yet at the same time moving forward and experiencing other relationships too. Maybe, you were friends and agreed to use each other sexually too, and that's what he knows of you.

Others will advise according to THEIR values about things, and even therapists can do that as well. For myself, well, I have never engaged in a friends with benefits relationship. But that is just me, and I am not going to condemn you due to my values or choices. I personally am not going to suddenly decide what happened to you was rape either, not given what you shared about the history you have had with this guy. And perhaps part of how you feel that you have shared was that you found out that you do love this new boyfriend and it's different than the love you experienced with your friend too. Perhaps, subconsciously you needed to know that too. Perhaps, even the fact that you have this guilt feeling means you actually care or love this guy you are living with and you feel safe with him too. Maybe you have outgrown this friend, that you now can engage with someone in a more meaningful relationship. That the fact that you feel what happened was wrong too means you do care about this guy you are living with and a part of you needed to know that about yourself.

The other thing you learned about this experience is that when you drink you are more susceptibe to making bad decisions and don't defend your boundaries well. Growth is about learning, seeing the things you choose to do that result in consequences you don't want to experience. So this friend says he loves you, but it's not the kind of love you want. That's ok to recognize and quite honestly, a lot of people experience this kind of awareness about a partner. And guess what, there is not one person posting to you about this that has not made a mistake themselves, including myself. Truth is, we all learn from our mistakes and we experience that kind of learning our entire lives.

Also, Lily, these medications you are taking all say not to drink while on them. They tend to intensify the affects of alcohol, and can also severely affect/damage your liver.

Last edited by Open Eyes; Aug 12, 2020 at 11:44 AM..
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Default Aug 12, 2020 at 11:05 AM
  #7
Guide to Consent

“If someone is stumbling or can’t stand without leaning on something, slurring their words, falling asleep, or has vomited, they’re incapacitated and cannot consent.”

How intoxicated were you? You said you were drunk. Not just a little tipsy. You can’t provide consent when drunk because you are considered incapacitated, if in fact you were drunk.

I was drunk only few times in my life. I don’t drink. But those few unfortunate times nothing I said would be considered a consent to anything. I didn’t know what planet I was on let alone consent to anything. Bottom line: drunk people cannot provide informed consent.
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Default Aug 12, 2020 at 11:54 AM
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I wouldn't call it sexual assault (you voluntarily drunk the alcohol, you asked for a condom, you continued to hang with him etc.). You do own your share of responsibility in your actions and behaviours.

However, he took advantage and a true friend would never have tried to be intimate with you. His morals, or lack thereof, (i.e.cheating on their long-term partner, taking advantage of another 'friend') reflect the kind of friend, and man, he is. I would ditch him and avoid putting yourself in such situations in the future.
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Default Aug 12, 2020 at 12:50 PM
  #9
Yup agree with rive. It might not be assault from legal stand point (although it depends on how we look at it, voluntarily drinking is one thing but having sex with a drunk person is entirely different ball game), this man isn’t a safe human being to be with and you are better off distancing yourself.

I commend you for seeing a therapist and addressing it with your therapist. Hope next step could be learning to keep your distance from people like him. Hugs
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Default Aug 13, 2020 at 04:31 AM
  #10
It is inexcusable friend or not. Is not okay you were too drunk to make any kind of informed decision other than to protect yourself. The thing is from the very beginning he wanted to sex with you and told him no. And you still drank with him. There is no reason you need to continue this relationship with this man friendship or not. I suggest you tell him it's over block him and do not talk to him.

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Default Aug 13, 2020 at 07:09 PM
  #11
Well, I was very drunk. Actually I don’t quite remember getting into the situation of actually having sex with him. I know we got into it and when I knew it was going to happen I said we needed a condom because i Didn’t want to be unsafe. But I feel I had a bit of a blackout sort of and don’t clearly remember the whole day and the next day, when I saw how much vodka I had consumed I couldn’t believe it and I felt so sick all day I couldn’t function. He barely drank all day because he Really doesn’t drink. He drank like half of this can of vodka seltzer we got when we bought the small bottle of vodka and I drank my vodka seltzer, the rest of his and half that little bottle of vodka plus some sake at the restaurant. Plus I had taken Xanax earlier because i was having anxiety so that was a mistake to mix that. I know that but I was having such bad anxiety being out around people due to my agoraphobia and social anxiety. I should have just taken an Uber home and not had any alcohol. Wish I had and this never would have happened. He had to have known i was way too drunk to really make good decisions. I blame myself for sure and feel guilt but also feel upset at him for kind of pushing the sex after I had said several times that day I couldn’t do it. He has an open relationship with his partner by the way. I do not.

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Default Aug 13, 2020 at 07:17 PM
  #12
No, I didn’t invite him back over to hook up with him. He had checked out of his hotel and I had said he could sleep on my couch since he had a very early flight. I did not think he would attempt any sexual moves on me because i told him I didn’t want it. I said we couldn’t do that anymore. He said ok when I told him that. Because he agreed I thought it would be ok. I didn’t think he would still try. Worst part I asked my boyfriend if it was ok if he came over and if he could sleep on the couch and my boyfriend said ok. Because he trusts me. But apparently he can’t. I know because of this that I can’t ever let anything like this happen again because of How terrible I feel. I did go get an STD test right away at the dr. Hopefully all is ok. My friend said he was recently tested and has nothing but I want to be sure. I just never thought he would try to have sex when I had told him my feelings about the guy I’m with. I told him I will always love him but I would feel too bad if I did it and it would be wrong. I said I wanted this relationship I’m in to bed pure with no lies or cheating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Have Hope View Post
HI there. I am very sorry for your current turmoil and situation.

I disagree that it was sexual assault, however. You told him to get a condom, therefore, it was consensual sex. Had you been saying 'no' the whole time, and had he physically forced himself upon you, it would have been sexual assault. Saying no at first, but then "went along" and telling him to get a condom is consensual sex.

Also, he bought the alcohol because you said you were anxious, NOT because you were saying no to sex. That's according to your post. Drinking alcohol with a friend with whom you've had previous sex is a recipe for disaster and will likely lead to sex. You must have known this on some level.

In my opinion, you took a huge risk by inviting someone over with whom you've hooked up previously. You knew the risk and you knew the history.

Perhaps some part of you wanted to have sex again with your friend. Otherwise, WHY did you invite him over when your boyfriend was out of town, of all times? I think you invited this sexual experience because on some level, you were aware of the risk and your boyfriend was conveniently out of town.

And perhaps you caved and had sex with him because you were also afraid to lose him as a friend? Could that be true? If that's the case, he's not truly your friend, if you're worried he only cares about you because he can have sex with you.

Also, a true friend wouldn't put the moves on someone who says they're very serious and committed to their boyfriend. He should have respected your boundaries verses dancing with you and taking off your clothes when you were drunk. So he DID take advantage of the situation, in my opinion, and he took advantage of YOU.

So you now have to face the consequences of your actions. Either you tell your boyfriend and be honest, or you keep it a secret and it will eat you up inside due to the dishonesty.

I don't think you are ready for marriage, or else you would not have cheated on your boyfriend, and you would not have invited this man over while he was out of town.

I would at the very least, reconsider your "friendship" with this man. As I said, that is no true friend, someone who will take advantage. He was not respectful.

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Default Aug 13, 2020 at 09:21 PM
  #13
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Hi, I have a problem and I feel so guilty but I don’t really know how to feel after talking to my therapist today. I have been with my boyfriend for a year and we live together. He was out of town and I had a male friend visit. This male friend and I have always hooked up when we see each other and have known each other like 10 years. However he is such a good friend of mine I trust him with my deepest secrets and sometimes he’s the only one I can talk to about stuff other people wouldn’t understand about my mental heath. He lives out of state. He visited this time and I said I am very serious about that the guy I am with and I can’t hook up with him. We went out and did stuff all day and had a lot of fun together but he was telling me he loves me and always will his whole life. I feel kind of the same way but I love my partner more and I know I want him in my life forever and was sure I didn’t want to hook up. However I don’t want to lose this friend either but I just want to be friends now and not hook up anymore. We’ve always kind of said we love each other the whole time we’ve known each other but I love him more in a friend way I suppose I don’t want to be with him like as a husband. He’s in a relationship too and has been for like 8 years. So he has been cheating when we hooked up in the past. Well this visit we went out all day and I have major anxiety and being out in the crowds and with the virus I was scared of being around people so I started having bad anxiety. He suggested buying some alcohol (at 2pm) and having some drinks. I had a lot of the bottle of vodka we bought after that but he really didn’t have much since he never really drinks. So he was sober I would say. We had dinner after and he got sake at dinner. When we got back to my house I was really drunk. He wanted me to dance so I did and was having fun. Next thing he was taking off my clothes. I said I didn’t really want to but went along and told him to wear a condom it was very important. After the sex I noticed the condom was lying on the floor. He had taken it off! I was mad. Anyway we hung out a bit after then went to bed. The next day I felt so guilty. I didn’t tell my boyfriend when I saw him. I don’t want to ruin what we have. I see him as my future husband! I saw my therapist today and she said I had told him I didn’t want to, then he suggested alcohol and saw I drank a lot and then had sex with me, which is actually sexual assault. Now I feel even worse that my friend could do that and to me. My therapist asked is he really your friend if he didn’t respect what you had told him and took advantage of you being drunk? I know being intoxicated is the only reason I did this. I am so upset about it all. I don’t know how to feel. I just want to cry. I know the truth is the best but I can’t lose my boyfriend. I was sexually assaulted in the past (I have PTSD from it) and to be told this by my therapist made me very upset I guess I was taken advantage of. I love this friend but should I even be his friend anymore? On top of that he owes me a few thousand dollars! I am just so upset. I feel like an awful person and don’t know what to do going forward. I want my boyfriend and me to have complete honestly but now I’m a liar.
Hello there. First of all, I am so sorry this happened to you. As others have mentioned, you were drunk and therefore you could not provide consent. So that's violation number 1. After having sex you saw that the condom on the floor, and that is yet another violation from a close friend. I don't want to tell you what to feel, as I don't think it's my place.

I'm glad you had a chance to go get tested for STDs. Do you have any close friends that you can talk to about this? Even if you don't tell your boyfriend, you should tell someone close to you to help you through this. It's great that you have a therapist. Please be kind and gentle with yourself. You did not deserve this, and you don't need to go through it alone.
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Default Aug 13, 2020 at 09:39 PM
  #14
I hope you distance yourself from this man. He is not to be trusted and you don’t need someone like this in your life

No you didn’t bring it upon yourself. Sadly there will always be people who will judge and blame victims of assault for how they were dressed or how they behaved or who they invited over etc

He isn’t a stranger so inviting him over is not a crime, sure it’s not advisable to drink heavily for health and safety reasons, but you drinking or inviting a man over is not a permission for him to have sex with you against your will (and taking condom off without a permission)

You were violated. I am very sorry. Please continue working with your therapist. I commend you for sharing with your therapist. Stay strong and keep seeking help
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Default Aug 14, 2020 at 03:12 AM
  #15
I do not think you should be friends anymore. He violated you, broke your trust. He knew that’s what he was going to do the whole time. In fact I can almost guarantee you that his plan was to get you drunk and have sex with you. I hope you got a pregnancy test. I can’t emphasize this enough: do not remain friends with him. Do not talk to him. Block him. He did a horrible horrible thing. There is no excuse. Do not let him rationalize this. Do not think about this and talk yourself into believing that this was all one big mistake. He is a predator.

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Default Aug 14, 2020 at 03:51 AM
  #16
It’s easy to see how you were vulnerable to this guy and got into this situation.

You had a history of this kind of relationship with him, he tells you that he loves you but..., you arranged to let him stay over when your bf was away, and your bf was okay with it knowing your history with him.

I agree with Open Eyes that this guy knew you had a history of infidelity with him, as he cheated with you on someone else and thought you’d do the same. I wonder why he removed the condom. Is he trying to sabotage your relationship with your bf, who you want to marry, ending your FWB with him? Is he one of those ‘doesn’t want you but doesn’t want anyone else to have you’ guys?

I doubt many bfs would have been okay with a guy you used to have sex with staying over while they were away, if at all, or even you seeing them at all. I may be overly assuming here, IDK. Not that your bf shouldn’t have trust as he did, but the ex seems like such an invasion on his territory and not a good idea for him to have been so okay with IMHO. I can’t imagine either my h or me saying ‘sure, this person you have had sex with can stay over while I’m away’... call me old fashioned.

I’m sorry it was a traumatic experience for you. This guy is really not your friend, and I’m sure you now know it. I think talking with the therapist is the safest way for you to deal with this. I worry that even telling a friend can come back to bite you, should you choose to not tell your bf. I hope this guy does’t make trouble for you when you don’t ever want to see or speak to him again. I think there’s no need for confrontation with him, just blow him off. He’s not healthy for you, obviously, use self care and focus on your present relationship.

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Default Aug 14, 2020 at 06:03 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Lily11 View Post
No, I didn’t invite him back over to hook up with him. He had checked out of his hotel and I had said he could sleep on my couch since he had a very early flight. I did not think he would attempt any sexual moves on me because i told him I didn’t want it. I said we couldn’t do that anymore. He said ok when I told him that. Because he agreed I thought it would be ok. I didn’t think he would still try. Worst part I asked my boyfriend if it was ok if he came over and if he could sleep on the couch and my boyfriend said ok. Because he trusts me. But apparently he can’t. I know because of this that I can’t ever let anything like this happen again because of How terrible I feel. I did go get an STD test right away at the dr. Hopefully all is ok. My friend said he was recently tested and has nothing but I want to be sure. I just never thought he would try to have sex when I had told him my feelings about the guy I’m with. I told him I will always love him but I would feel too bad if I did it and it would be wrong. I said I wanted this relationship I’m in to bed pure with no lies or cheating.
Oh I see. Well, this paints a very different picture, and thanks for the additional details.

I agree with the others. This 'friend' of yours is no friend. He took full advantage of you, and he knew if he got you drunk he could probably twist your arm into having sex with him. He made advances on you and took off your clothing while you were visibly and clearly intoxicated.

I am glad you got tested for STDs, and I am sorry this happened to you.

As all others have said, I would not have any further contact with this man. He is bad news. He does not care about your well being, your happiness, or your relationship. And he showed no respect for your expressed wishes to not have sex with him. He was all about the sex and what he wanted. Please do see things from this perspective. He was not respectful of you.

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Default Aug 14, 2020 at 10:52 PM
  #18
It is my opinion that this was sexual assault. Also it is not helpful to tell the OP "you brought it on yourself." Just because she didn't do things the way you would do them...

Stealthing (slipping off the condom) is a form of sexual assault. She said no. He got her drunk. You can't consent when you're drunk. Maybe she has mental health issues, issues w judgment plus she was intoxicated. This was assault.

Lily, I'm sorry this happened. No, he is not a friend. No real friend would do that. What he did was unacceptable. I'm glad you're in therapy and talking to your therapist.
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Default Aug 15, 2020 at 12:05 AM
  #19
This guy is no friend.
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Default Aug 15, 2020 at 08:43 AM
  #20
I want to add to my prior post.

@Lily11, I think the lesson here is that he cannot be trusted. You trusted that he would respect your boundaries around sex when you asked him to stay over and told him that no sex was going to occur. But it was a risk nonetheless to have a FWB man stay overnight when your boyfriend was out of town. It's a set up for potential sex to occur -- for men, sometimes it doesn't matter what we say, and it's our actions that open a door for them. You also chose to drink far too much alcohol, which is taking another big risk and which can cause poor judgement I am not blaming you for what occurred, I am simply pointing out your role in all of this. It was a risk to have him stay overnight given the history and it was riskier to drink too much alcohol with someone with whom you have a sexual history. Being alone together in the apartment while drunk and while your boyfriend was away was a recipe for disaster. He did take full advantage of you and was sleazy in my opinion, but you also played a role in this too. We all have to be accountable for our own role and part in things that go wrong. You did ask him to put on a condom, so you were aware that sex was going to occur and wanted to take precautions. So you were not so drunk that you couldn't speak or know on some level what was going to happen. I stand by my stance that it was not sexual assault. Had you been so inebriated that you could not speak, or if you were practically passed out and he made advances on you, then I could see that it may be called assault. People are going overboard by saying it's assault. You did cheat on your partner, and there has to be some amount of accountability. People may disagree with me, but to place ALL the responsibility on him is wrong.

It is very unfortunate how it all unfolded, but like all lessons in life, something valuable can be learned here. And bottom line: he is not to be trusted.

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Last edited by Have Hope; Aug 15, 2020 at 09:10 AM..
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