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Default Sep 14, 2020 at 08:41 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
Aside from the emotional issues the OP mentioned, I’m not sure I understand what bothers you about her dressing up. I love to dress up. I love to wear dresses and I love makeup and looking good because it makes me feel good. Undoubtedly I’ve had days that started out very bleak but then I’ve fixed myself up and worn a pretty dress and my whole attitude changed. I like to look nice for me. When I do go out without my husband I’ll wear whatever I want to. I don’t intentionally try and be sexy. Sometimes the dresses I wear have plunging necklines. Sometimes they are on the shorter side. I do not crave attention from other men or want to be the center of attention wherever I go. I’m not talking about all the emotional stuff or the fact that the OP can’t talk to his wife, or that he thinks she looked less attractive when they went out vs when she went out with her friends. I’m only talking about the way she chooses to dress.
I think that's great that you express yourself through the way you look. I feel really good, too, when we go out on a hot day to an outdoor event and she's got her cutoff short shorts and a skimpy shirt. That's great! I also like to dress nice when I go out. I like to dress up for job interviews, etc. It makes me feel more confident. I don't want to start a post war on how women should dress. Everyone is different.

What bothers me is that in certain situations it causes me anxiety because it triggers me into feeling like I did when my ex wife would cheat on me. She would go out to bars and come home drunk and admit to it. She cheated on me when she went on a cruise with her girlfriends. She's cheated on me at a party we were both at and I caught her. I tried to explain this to my wife now and she has zero sympathy. She has the same attitude, that no man is gonna control how I dress. Which is fine in a normal situation, but I admit that I'm not normal and I'm in therapy and I'm trying to get better so I don't go into full panic and I just need a little validation. It's so hard to just sit still and smile and say "have a good night".
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Default Sep 14, 2020 at 10:51 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Open Eyes View Post
Society is pretty hard on women overall. There are so many messages to women about how their looks can bring them power and give them relevance. There is a rather deep subconscious fear in many women that if they lose their looks they lose their power and relevance too and they can have a deep fear of abandonment attached to this deep message.

When men age they tend to look more distinguished, some even get more attractive as they get older. It's not the same for women. It sounds like your wife has a deep insecurity and she flirts and dresses up to get attention to let her know she is still desirable. She is dressing this way for herself and hoping to get attention so she can feel better about herself. She may be attractive enough for you, but she doesn't feel it for herself and this is something she does to help her feel it.

This very challenge in women is SO HEAVILY MARKETED it's just incredible.
Yes, I have no personal experience with this issue but I have read about it. Body dysmorphia, I believe. I know there isn't much more I can do other than be as supportive as possible. My compromise I made with myself (since we don't talk about it) is to try and compliment her looks whenever she leaves the house even if I don't agree with what she is wearing. If it triggers me, I try and focus on whatever doesn't trigger me and compliment that, such as her makeup, hair, shoes, nails, etc.

I wish she could do the same for me.
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Default Sep 14, 2020 at 11:01 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by divine1966 View Post
Personally I continue going out and doing things with girlfriends and don’t intend to stop just because I am married. I had boyfriends who were jealous. That’s why they are exes. “Revealing” is relative. What is that she is revealing that you don’t want her to reveal? Body parts? Where is the limit of how much you want her to cover up? And why?

Personally I am not a flirty type whatsoever and I have girlfriends for female companionship and friendship and not for flirting lol Some women stop their friendships because they got married and now their husbands became their universe. Some men like it. Not my kind of men. It’s 2020. Not 1820. Women’s place isn’t just in the kitchen bare feet. Maintaining friendships and hobbies and pursuing careers is all important to women nowadays. There is more to life than having a husband

I know you don’t like that she talks to single men a lot, that’s I totally understand. But you don’t like her spending time with women either?

What exactly do you have issue with? How she dresses? Where she goes? I am confused. If you don’t trust your wife, i think marriage is over. If my husband suspected I will cheat, I’d prefer he divorced me. If there is no trust, you have nothing else. You two are just not a good match.
You are right. Revealing is relative, thats why answering your first questions would be futile.

To answer your other questions, no I don't like the women she hung out with that night. I don't like the women who are single and take a married woman to a bar to go dancing without her husband who would happily go out as a group with them and some guy friends. Women who make plans to go to the movies and somehow mysteriously end up back at the bar. Women who say they are having girls night out and some how other husbands and male cousins, friends, etc. somehow all get the memo except me.

I don't think she's cheating. I think she is putting up a wall and shutting me out.
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Default Sep 15, 2020 at 04:43 AM
  #24
Hhmm yeah now when you share more details it looks like there is more to it than her going out with women. I think that’s what happens when details aren’t provided (not like it’s possible to share everything, I get it). But if you said she goes to bars dancing with men and women and doesn’t invite you, I’d have a different thought about it. I thought more of like I go with my girlfriends places. On Sunday while my husband was in finally opened gym I went with girlfriends exercise walking in a park and then breakfast at a dinner, my athletic clothes is probably on a tight side (revealing?) for comfort but I sure don’t have body dysmorphia or was there to get men to look at me hahaha Now what you described is different

Going dancing at the bar with a group of males and females is quite different than going out with girlfriends. It sounds that she didn’t want you there. It sucks. I’d be very offended if my husband went dancing with other women without me. I can’t even imagine. It’s not the same as going to meet with his buddies to play soccer at a day time (example)

I’d not blame single women for “taking” her anywhere. Most of my girlfriends are actually single as widowed or divorced or never married but they can’t “take” me anywhere where I don’t want to go. I for example don’t drink like at all and neither do they and I don’t go dancing, well neither do they but if they asked me to join them at bars for drinking purpose, I’d not go. Your wife has a free will. She goes because she wants to. She is an adult and can’t be taken places.

Honestly I am not sure if this situation will ever improve as she doesn’t seem the right woman for you. Sometimes people are just wrong for us. I was in a relationship with someone who drank, I thought I could change him. Silly me. Solution wasn’t to get drunks to stop drinking. Solution was to go for people who don’t drink. I am long gone and am married (to someone who doesn’t do any substances) but that previous person still drinks.

What do you get out of this marriage? Is there any positive side to it? It sounds very unhappy for me. I am sorry You’d be much happier with a different type of woman
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Default Sep 15, 2020 at 05:56 AM
  #25
I think the reason I feel strongly about this is more of a general thing. In the op and other posts you didn’t say anything about dancing and hanging out with other men. I do not go searching each posters profile to see if they have written about the situation they are currently posting about. I do not look for clues about an op I read the post I’m looking at and share what I can. Without the details regarding dancing with other men I felt strongly about women being able to dress as they see fit. Like I said, I like looking nice. I don’t tend to wear extremely revealing things but I would guess based on some opinions here and different styles people have, that they might feel that my style is “to attract men, have power, seek attention, or fear that I’m getting old and won’t be attractive.” It isn’t. I dress for me, I feel good when I look nice. The idea of blaming women for men’s bad behavior and the sexualization of our bodies is not fair. It harkens back to the idea that women are sluts and men are studs. Men should be taught that THEY need to control themselves and they are not uncontrollable sex maniacs that can’t help themselves when a pretty woman walks by. I don’t know if I’m considered good looking or not but I’ve been cat called before. You know what I do when that happens? I turn around and give them the finger. Or if it’s something that regularly happens by the same men in the same place I might go talk to them and tell them how uncomfortable I am. Worse case scenario I’ll talk to their supervisor. I imagine that it would curtail them, because they must be human enough to hear when someone is uncomfortable and try and fix it.

As far as the OP goes I agree with @divine1966. It is not ok to go out with girlfriends and other men dancing and drinking. Of course she had an agenda anyone can see that. She doesn’t seem to have any regard for her marriage or husband.
With that in mind I wonder why the marriage went forward with the marriage? I disagree that the OP has abandonment issues. Who wouldn’t be upset with that situation? To me, someone with abandonment issues is completely codependent on their partner with intense jealousy and behavior that may be irrational, unwarranted or full of drama and emotions, and wanting to control their partner.

To the op (guy) I don’t think you have abandonment issues. I don’t think you are being fair to yourself. You have legitimate concerns and I think she may have walked the cheating line already. Please don’t blame yourself. She is totally invalidating your feelings and trying to flip the script on you and manipulate you into thinking there is something wrong with you. I don’t think couples counseling will help because she already doesn’t see that she’s wrong. I do think you would benefit from therapy if you aren’t in it already. A good relationship therapist should help you work out appropriate strategies to cope with this and decision making skills.

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Default Sep 15, 2020 at 06:06 AM
  #26
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I tried to explain this to my wife now and she has zero sympathy.

I just need a little validation. It's so hard to just sit still and smile and say "have a good night".
You hit the nail on the head - she does as she pleases, no matter how it effects you, and she has zero sympathy for you.

It's either extreme immaturity or narcissism on her part. I cannot diagnose of course, but from all your threads and posts, it does sound a lot like narcissism.

IF it's narcissism, that's very difficult to deal with. There is no resolution with a narcissist. And there is no validation.

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Default Sep 15, 2020 at 06:07 AM
  #27
I agree with Sara that the issue isn’t abandonment here but quality of marriage overall. Anyone would be upset with such scenarios and things your wife does .

I think maybe it’s too painful to address true issue, so focus is shifted to mundane things like what women wear and shaming women for enjoying dressing up or assigning interior motives to them wanting to look good. I think true issue is that your wife is not a good partner, no matter what she is wearing. You can force her to wear burlap sack but it won’t make your wife and this marriage better
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Default Sep 15, 2020 at 06:17 AM
  #28
Just to be clear -- personally, my intention in my posts was never to "shame" women for dressing up or for dressing in a way that makes them feel good. My intention wasn't to blame women either for the attention that some men may give them. My intention was to sympathize with the OP and support him in his feelings.

It's neither here nor there, really. We're all here to support the OP and not to argue and debate.

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Default Sep 15, 2020 at 06:35 AM
  #29
If you feel you cannot talk to her about any of your thoughts or feelings is a real problem. Stuffing down your feelings can eventually lead to blowing up.
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Default Sep 15, 2020 at 06:43 AM
  #30
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Just to be clear -- personally, my intention in my posts was never to "shame" women for dressing up or for dressing in a way that makes them feel good. My intention wasn't to blame women either for the attention that some men may give them. My intention was to sympathize with the OP and support him in his feelings.

It's neither here nor there, really. We're all here to support the OP and not to argue and debate.

Hey @Have Hope I never got the impression at all that you were shaming women. Nor did I think you were arguing. You had more details from the previous threads and you were sharing your thoughts because you knew the situation. Abandonment Issue

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Default Sep 15, 2020 at 06:48 AM
  #31
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Hey @Have Hope I never got the impression at all that you were shaming women. Nor did I think you were arguing. You had more details from the previous threads and you were sharing your thoughts because you knew the situation. Abandonment Issue
Thanks, @sarahsweets.

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Default Sep 15, 2020 at 06:50 AM
  #32
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@divine1966, my understanding is his issue is she wore a more revealing dress out with her girlfriends than the dress she wore on their honeymoon. He is not upset about her going out with girlfriends. He is upset about the reoccurring issue that his wife frequently seeks and needs sexual attention from other men. This has been an ongoing issue since his first thread. I never got that he was controlling of her in any way or that he doesn't fully trust her. What I get is that it is hurtful and insulting that she needs all this other attention and does things to get it from men, and particularly single men when she is a married woman. And the dress on her evening out with girlfriends is just another instance of this.
Yes, this is exactly the problem I keep running in to. Like you said, this particular instance by itself sounds like I'm being whiney, but it is a recurring problem and it isn't being addressed at all. If you want to go out with the girls and wear something cute, even a little sexy to feel good and you were classy about it, great. But her attitude and past actions have shown that this is not her intent. She was all excited running back and forth from the bathroom to the bedroom trying on outfits and doing makeup and didn't even see me and then runs ot the door and didn't even ask me how she looks or tell me she's going to miss me or any details about the night, just dinner with the girls and bye bye. Then she doesn't come back 'till 12:30. I know I shouldnt have, but I looked on her phone the next day and found out she went to a bar. It wasn't a restaraunt. Which again, in my logical brain, I'm guessing because of corona restrictions they probably closed the dance floor, but still. I have had this happen so many times, that it continues to inflame my anxieties. She could have said, "they probably have no dancing, but either way we are just going to sit at a table and have a couple drinks, I might be late but I'll keep in touch. I know it gives you anxiety so I'll touch base with you later." Nothing. None of that. Just gotta go, bye!
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Default Sep 15, 2020 at 06:57 AM
  #33
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I think notion that men are wild beasts just waiting to ravish random women because their dresses are revealing is a bit out there. Just not the case. At 16 maybe. But even then it’s not girls fault if guys are this way. Also saying that women dress certain way to get men to look at them is really outdated.

I don’t believe a woman needs to “run by” her husband what she should wear. Nope. Ain’t happening. I love my husband dearly but I’d never thought of asking him what I should be wearing for an outing and if my clothes is too revealing.

Some of the things you say kind of sound so old fashioned. Mind you I am not parading myself around in revealing clothes but it’s at no point men’s decision what I should be wearing.
What makes you feel good inside? Would you be willing to compromise on that and find other avenues of happines to substitute part of it if you knew it caused your husband pain while he tried to heal from past wounds?
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Default Sep 15, 2020 at 07:04 AM
  #34
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Yes, this is exactly the problem I keep running in to. Like you said, this particular instance by itself sounds like I'm being whiney, but it is a recurring problem and it isn't being addressed at all. If you want to go out with the girls and wear something cute, even a little sexy to feel good and you were classy about it, great. But her attitude and past actions have shown that this is not her intent. She was all excited running back and forth from the bathroom to the bedroom trying on outfits and doing makeup and didn't even see me and then runs ot the door and didn't even ask me how she looks or tell me she's going to miss me or any details about the night, just dinner with the girls and bye bye. Then she doesn't come back 'till 12:30. I know I shouldnt have, but I looked on her phone the next day and found out she went to a bar. It wasn't a restaraunt. Which again, in my logical brain, I'm guessing because of corona restrictions they probably closed the dance floor, but still. I have had this happen so many times, that it continues to inflame my anxieties. She could have said, "they probably have no dancing, but either way we are just going to sit at a table and have a couple drinks, I might be late but I'll keep in touch. I know it gives you anxiety so I'll touch base with you later." Nothing. None of that. Just gotta go, bye!
What I bolded here in your post would be the thoughtful and considerate thing to do within a marriage.

For example, my husband knows I get anxious when I don't hear back from him for many hours via text. So he'll check in when he can and will send brief messages to me to let me know he's seen my messages. That's the thoughtful, considerate thing to do.

I can understand why your anxieties were raised over this night out with her girlfriends. And because you felt the need to check her phone says that it raised your own mistrust. She is not doing anything to help ease your feelings of mistrust based on your past relationship issues. She is in fact almost feeding those feelings by acting the way she does.

What worries me is that your feelings don't get validated, you have no means to voice to her your feelings without her flipping the situation around on you, and you receive no sympathy from her for any of your anxieties that get triggered by her actions. And she takes little to no responsibility for her own actions.

So where does that leave you in this relationship? Basically powerless, voiceless and invalidated constantly.

Sadly, this is not an equal relationship, and she doesn't seem to care much about how YOU feel, which says a LOT.

Love should involve equal amounts of give and take. Love involves consideration of the other person's feelings and respect for the other person's feelings.

Someone earlier asked what you are getting out of this relationship, so I will add, what are you getting out of this relationship that is positive and which makes you feel loved, satisfied and happy? Is there anything?

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Default Sep 15, 2020 at 11:50 AM
  #35
SO many amazing comments here, I don't think I can add much, except to say that Guy, I think if you see worth in the marriage then it's absolutely the right thing imo for you to try and work out your own issues and your issues with your wife. Having said that, it does seem that you are maybe having some of the same issues that you had in your previous marriage. I'm really with Sarah in my belief that women should feel free to wear what they want. I wouldn't be pleased to see anyone subjugated (in any way) for for dressing as they please, but it does seem more of an issue that your wife is unwilling to address your fears. It does seem that she is dismissive, and I don't know if you see any patterns in your relationships with regards to attachment style? I know that I have had problems with having a disorganised attachment style, but especially have had problems attaching anxiously to dismissive partners, and I can see how this pattern has caused a lot of upset in my life. I hope you and your wife can both be happy, and feel free to be yourselves, whether together or apart
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Default Sep 15, 2020 at 04:24 PM
  #36
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What makes you feel good inside? Would you be willing to compromise on that and find other avenues of happines to substitute part of it if you knew it caused your husband pain while he tried to heal from past wounds?
I do not do anything that causes my husband pain. What I do for happiness is conducive to my marriage and isn’t offensive to my husband, it’s harmless stuff. I don’t do anything questionable or inappropriate. If I enjoyed things that were painful for my husband, it’s very likely we wouldn’t be a good match to begin with.

I don’t believe in marrying people who do things and live life styles that we don’t approve and don’t support. Sure compromise is important but not compromising who you are at your core.

Going dancing and drinking with other men and not telling you details and being dismissive is who she is. It’s not suitable for you and I don’t blame you. It wouldn’t be suitable for me either.
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Default Sep 16, 2020 at 06:48 AM
  #37
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SO many amazing comments here, I don't think I can add much, except to say that Guy, I think if you see worth in the marriage then it's absolutely the right thing imo for you to try and work out your own issues and your issues with your wife. Having said that, it does seem that you are maybe having some of the same issues that you had in your previous marriage. I'm really with Sarah in my belief that women should feel free to wear what they want. I wouldn't be pleased to see anyone subjugated (in any way) for for dressing as they please, but it does seem more of an issue that your wife is unwilling to address your fears. It does seem that she is dismissive, and I don't know if you see any patterns in your relationships with regards to attachment style? I know that I have had problems with having a disorganised attachment style, but especially have had problems attaching anxiously to dismissive partners, and I can see how this pattern has caused a lot of upset in my life. I hope you and your wife can both be happy, and feel free to be yourselves, whether together or apart
Yes, I am starting to see the disconnect between her behavior or expression of herself and my issues. It's like a black and white incompatibility. I don't know what you do about that? Reading all these posts is really making me feel scared. I don't see any solution that involves staying married. We are a blended family with kids that need our support. I can't bear to see them hurt again if we split up. I know people will say that the kids feel the tension and it still causes them harm to stay together when things aren't right.

I don't really know much about attachment styles. I will do some research on that. Maybe I can get some more clarity there.

Thank you for your honest feedback!
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Default Sep 16, 2020 at 06:50 AM
  #38
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I do not do anything that causes my husband pain. What I do for happiness is conducive to my marriage and isn’t offensive to my husband, it’s harmless stuff. I don’t do anything questionable or inappropriate. If I enjoyed things that were painful for my husband, it’s very likely we wouldn’t be a good match to begin with.

I don’t believe in marrying people who do things and live life styles that we don’t approve and don’t support. Sure compromise is important but not compromising who you are at your core.

Going dancing and drinking with other men and not telling you details and being dismissive is who she is. It’s not suitable for you and I don’t blame you. It wouldn’t be suitable for me either.
This feels very damning to hear. I was abused as a child and have suffered my whole life from abusive people. I literally can't even comprehend a relationship like what you describe between you and your husband. If you are being totally honest then you are truly blessed.
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Default Sep 16, 2020 at 01:33 PM
  #39
Honestly, maybe you should plan a night out with the guys to the bar and get dressed up REALLY nice, maybe treat yourself to something new and put on colone and be happy to go out the door like she has. Maybe it would be good for her to see how it feels. I know that's not your style either and maybe you are too dependable for her and she takes advantage of that too much. And SHE would have to stay home for the children and wonder what you are doing especially since you looked so damn good when you rushed out the door.

(you don't have to go to a bar either, but instead go to an AA meeting). It sounds like she has gotten so used to you being so dutiful that she takes you for granted.
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Default Sep 16, 2020 at 02:52 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by guy1111 View Post
This feels very damning to hear. I was abused as a child and have suffered my whole life from abusive people. I literally can't even comprehend a relationship like what you describe between you and your husband. If you are being totally honest then you are truly blessed.
This is my second marriage. I was single a long time between my marriages. I’d not marry second time if it wasn’t right. It’s perfectly fine to stay single which I was intended to do if didn’t meet the right person.

People aren’t required to be married or stay married. It’s relatively easy to get out if its not good. I do understand meeting wrong people, I’ve met plenty. But I don’t have to marry them or stay married. Singlehood could be very enjoyable (especially comparing to a bad marriage)

Yes I am honest.
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Thanks for this!
RoxanneToto
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