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Default Sep 27, 2020 at 06:13 PM
  #21
The main problem is your mom. She is a TROUBLE MAKER. She has been undermining your self-esteem ALL YOUR LIFE.

You want your mom to love and value and respect you. But she never quite gives you the approval you want from a mother. You hunger for that. But she's left you hungry for that all your life.

It's time to stop letting Mama do this to you. No one can MAKE you feel guilty. You can only feel guilty, if you choose to let yourself be dominated by others. It's time to say: "I run my life, not Mama."

You can still love your mom. You can still love your sister and her husband. (Your sister is a victim of Mama too.) Love does not mean letting others make a fool of you.

Your mother is never going to give you what you want and deserve as a good and decent daughter. That's sad. I'm sorry you got cheated like that. But that is the reality of your relationship with your mother. It is what it is. She won't change. You have to be the bigger person and love her, even though she has a twisted way of thinking. Go ahead and love her . . . but stop being her fool.

Once you learn how to handle Mama, you'll have no trouble handling your sister . . . or anyone else you meet in life. Step #1 - don't explain yourself to any of your family. (That's how you get sucked into stupid arguments.) Just say: "No. I'm very sorry, but, no. I wish I was rich and could buy everything for everybody, but no. I can't and I won't, but I still love everyone."

They will end up having more respect for you . . . later on in life. More importantly, you will have more respect for yourself.

When you come from a home where a parent didn't give you the approval you needed, you have to give it to yourself.
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Default Sep 27, 2020 at 10:51 PM
  #22
If you want to get them off your back for good without feeling guilty, go to your bank and tell them you would like to take out a loan for your sister and her husband who don't have jobs, but want you to take out a loan for them to buy a car. Tell them the car will be in their name, so you won't have collateral.

The bank will say no. Tell your sister you talked to your bank, and they said no.

If they push for details on how you requested the loan, tell them the truth. You can tell her you absolutely did not want their car to be in your name, and you didn't qualify if the car wasn't in your name.

Too many legal ramifications having someone else's car in your name.
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Default Sep 27, 2020 at 10:56 PM
  #23
Definitely what rocky said. The car must be in their name

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Default Sep 27, 2020 at 11:28 PM
  #24
I get where you are going RockyRoad but it’s best not to entertain their minds with any option. After all they may suggest the car be put in the OP’s name but they keep it for themselves and that still keeps the OP on the hook. Anyway it would be too hard to insure and that would make the OP liable if they had an accident.

It’s best not to get them thinking about options. The answer should just be a simple “no”.
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Default Sep 28, 2020 at 12:11 AM
  #25
Knowledge can make one's position/argument stronger.

It kind of sounds like the OPs sister won't take a simple no. Otherwise this post wasn't even needed.
I only suggested a possible solution as the relationship with her sister is important to her, and she didn't want to feel guilty.

Sadly, sometimes a simple no can cost you (or damage) a relationship. When that no comes with an explanation the sister can relate to, hard feelings can be greatly lessened.

Last edited by RockyRoad007; Sep 28, 2020 at 02:22 AM..
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Default Sep 28, 2020 at 12:43 PM
  #26
NO WAY!! People that are not working dont qualify for loans for a reason-not working. do not even give this a second thought.

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Default Sep 28, 2020 at 05:04 PM
  #27
Thank you, all you lovely and kind people, you gave me a lot more understanding of my situation. I am person who tends to be liked and to please others, I feel guilty easily. However, since I had a child, and since I have to fight to have decent life for us, I started to put our two (child and me) first. It's not easy to change your psychological structure, and sometimes it comes back to bite me on the a$. I just want them to like me, I want to help, but I can't do it always, and not when the price (literal or just metaphorical, emotional price) is so big I don't think I would handle it. Someone needs me, I have to prioritize.
Some members of my family are so quick to make you feel guilty as hell. It's so easy with me. I always feel guilty. Even when I get my paycheck I feel like I didn't deserve it I live in constant fear I will mess something up, I want to be liked even by people who hate me with no reason and don't deserve my time at all. I am tired.
I don't look like a typical pleaser. I know how to say "no". I usually do. But that comes with a price for me. I lose sleep, I feel bad, I can't stop thinking about it. I can look assertive, even maybe somewhat cool and aloof, but I am so not. It's just a surface.
That is why I will say no to this request, but I didn't sleep for days, and I feel tortured. It happens with other people too. I feel like I am doing everything wrong. Some people know how to say no and stay likable, and to be respected. I don't. I don't respect that part of me. I keep thinking I am not noble person for not wanting to help my sister. But on the other hand, I tried so so many times. Like my mother, she wants help the way she wants it, even when most of us think that is not helpful at all. She doesn't want what I have to give and honestly think it would help her most. She wants what she wants which is just short term relief with long term consequences. It's depressing. I can't win.
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Default Sep 28, 2020 at 05:10 PM
  #28
Boba yu you are a winner just think of the valuable lessons your teaching your child by saying no.

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Default Sep 28, 2020 at 10:09 PM
  #29
My personal experiences would tell me not only "no" but "heck no", and I wouldn't feel bad about it. I would feel bad for them but not risk my own financial security. It's a sad fact that things like this far too often turn out very badly for the person loaning money or valuables or cosigning a loan or getting a loan for someone else. It took me decades to finally figure that out.

I own a twenty-seven year old pickup with lousy paint and a rusty roof. It MIGHT be worth $1500 but that's pushing it given its terrible cosmetic condition. I could buy an inexpensive new vehicle but have never thought buying new was a good investment. I've had this old truck for seven years and it's never given me a spot of trouble.

Even if my truck quit suddenly I would NEVER ask anyone to take out a loan for me to buy another rust heap, let alone a new vehicle.

There's an old saying, "If you never want to see someone again, just loan them some money. They'll avoid you the rest of their life". I've found this to be accurate.

Last edited by DazedAndKunfyoozed; Sep 28, 2020 at 10:29 PM.. Reason: added
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Default Sep 28, 2020 at 11:32 PM
  #30
If your mother made you feel guilty for having boundaries that can create these uncomfortable feelings you experience. You need to work on creating stronger psychological boundaries in your own mind where you will not entertain these negative feelings and that you deserve to have your personal psychological boundaries.
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Default Sep 29, 2020 at 12:13 AM
  #31
@DazedAndKunfyoozed: It doesn't matter what our vehicle looks like. It is whether it is reliable. I am sure you have heard, "Don't laugh, it's paid for"? Truer words were never spoken.

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Default Sep 29, 2020 at 05:42 AM
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biba_yu View Post
Thank you, all you lovely and kind people, you gave me a lot more understanding of my situation. I am person who tends to be liked and to please others, I feel guilty easily. However, since I had a child, and since I have to fight to have decent life for us, I started to put our two (child and me) first. It's not easy to change your psychological structure, and sometimes it comes back to bite me on the a$. I just want them to like me, I want to help, but I can't do it always, and not when the price (literal or just metaphorical, emotional price) is so big I don't think I would handle it. Someone needs me, I have to prioritize.
Some members of my family are so quick to make you feel guilty as hell. It's so easy with me. I always feel guilty. Even when I get my paycheck I feel like I didn't deserve it I live in constant fear I will mess something up, I want to be liked even by people who hate me with no reason and don't deserve my time at all. I am tired.
I don't look like a typical pleaser. I know how to say "no". I usually do. But that comes with a price for me. I lose sleep, I feel bad, I can't stop thinking about it. I can look assertive, even maybe somewhat cool and aloof, but I am so not. It's just a surface.
That is why I will say no to this request, but I didn't sleep for days, and I feel tortured. It happens with other people too. I feel like I am doing everything wrong. Some people know how to say no and stay likable, and to be respected. I don't. I don't respect that part of me. I keep thinking I am not noble person for not wanting to help my sister. But on the other hand, I tried so so many times. Like my mother, she wants help the way she wants it, even when most of us think that is not helpful at all. She doesn't want what I have to give and honestly think it would help her most. She wants what she wants which is just short term relief with long term consequences. It's depressing. I can't win.
Don't feel guilty for taking care of yourself and your own needs. If you don't, who else will? It's a necessity in life to look after oneself, and to even be selfish at times, but in a self preservation, self love kind of way.

Those people are overstepping the boundaries by trying to make you feel guilty, whenever you say no.

Learning strong boundaries is a process and it's a process of learning self love. Not everyone has to like you, and it's OK if they do not. Self love involves self respect and strong boundaries. People who cannot respect you will try to cross your boundaries.

It's absurd of them to ask you for such a huge bank loan when they don't have jobs. Just absurd. And if they cannot pay the loan off, you know who has to pay it? You. That is not fair to you at all.

They may be very nice people, but they're way overstepping the boundaries. Try to view it this way, and try not to feel guilty for saying no and for taking care of yourself.

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Default Sep 29, 2020 at 08:53 AM
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by DazedAndKunfyoozed View Post
My personal experiences would tell me not only "no" but "heck no", and I wouldn't feel bad about it. I would feel bad for them but not risk my own financial security. It's a sad fact that things like this far too often turn out very badly for the person loaning money or valuables or cosigning a loan or getting a loan for someone else. It took me decades to finally figure that out.

I saw this first hand. An ex of mine co-signed a credit card for a friend. It turns out that friend had convinced several people to do the same thing. He ran up charges on the card, took off to another part of the country and never paid the bills. My ex was stuck paying for the charges on the card he co-signed for to keep the bill from going into collections and ruining his credit.


Be strong. Don't do it. If you can figure out how to get around without a car, so can they.
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Default Sep 29, 2020 at 10:52 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Medusax View Post
@DazedAndKunfyoozed: It doesn't matter what our vehicle looks like. It is whether it is reliable. I am sure you have heard, "Don't laugh, it's paid for"? Truer words were never spoken.
Thanks for the clarification. That's precisely the point I attempted to convey. That along with the insinuation that, given the couple's financial situation, it makes zero sense to buy a 'new' car. This combined with expecting SOMEONE ELSE to take the entire responsibility and risk is a HUGE red flag.

We can all see the likely outcome of caving in to such a request but Biba_yu is in a fog of doubt. Our vantage points (experiences) allow us a very clear view of the nearly imminent financial disaster and painful heartache, should he cave in to it.

Biba_yu, trust is a beautiful thing, as is empathy. But these absolutely must be tempered with logic and self preservation. Please listen to those who've "been there and done that".

The couple's intentions may be to pay the loan. But how can they 'guarantee' they can do that? Do they have anything they can sell to pay for an ugly but dependable old car? If they do then that's another very flashy red flag. If they have things they can sell to buy transportation but aren't should tell you something.
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Default Sep 29, 2020 at 11:50 AM
  #35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biba_yu View Post
Thank you, all you lovely and kind people, you gave me a lot more understanding of my situation. I am person who tends to be liked and to please others, I feel guilty easily. However, since I had a child, and since I have to fight to have decent life for us, I started to put our two (child and me) first. It's not easy to change your psychological structure, and sometimes it comes back to bite me on the a$. I just want them to like me, I want to help, but I can't do it always, and not when the price (literal or just metaphorical, emotional price) is so big I don't think I would handle it. Someone needs me, I have to prioritize.
Some members of my family are so quick to make you feel guilty as hell. It's so easy with me. I always feel guilty. Even when I get my paycheck I feel like I didn't deserve it I live in constant fear I will mess something up, I want to be liked even by people who hate me with no reason and don't deserve my time at all. I am tired.
I don't look like a typical pleaser. I know how to say "no". I usually do. But that comes with a price for me. I lose sleep, I feel bad, I can't stop thinking about it. I can look assertive, even maybe somewhat cool and aloof, but I am so not. It's just a surface.
That is why I will say no to this request, but I didn't sleep for days, and I feel tortured. It happens with other people too. I feel like I am doing everything wrong. Some people know how to say no and stay likable, and to be respected. I don't. I don't respect that part of me. I keep thinking I am not noble person for not wanting to help my sister. But on the other hand, I tried so so many times. Like my mother, she wants help the way she wants it, even when most of us think that is not helpful at all. She doesn't want what I have to give and honestly think it would help her most. She wants what she wants which is just short term relief with long term consequences. It's depressing. I can't win.
This is what you really need help with @Biba_yu. You KNOW this is asking too much of you, and you have shared plenty of good reasons why it's too much to ask of you which so many have validated here in your thread.

You have been conditioned to experience discomfort when you don't please and do things the way others expect of you (your mother instilled this in you because she is toxic). So, in essense when you put effort into doing something and make gains, you tend to experience what is called "cognitive dissonance".

Cognitive dissonance is when someone puts in effort and has boundaries but when they do put in effort to do for self, and have boundaries, they experience two or perhaps even three emotional challenges in their mind. There are angry feelings and kind/positive feelings this wanting to be good, but fearing something bad and it's like carrying this other negative in your mind constantly, as if haunting you. Some people describe this presence or challenge as being the inner child or a feeling of being small and helpless and fearful of something negative happening. This is the struggle you are describing experiencing that can last for days in you, this is what makes you "tired".

I believe you, I believe you want to be a "good person" and be a "good mommy" and you work hard to make a home for your child. I also believe you are likeable, that you work hard and do your best to be competent in your job too. I believe you appear competent and likeable, but you don't always FEEL that way, and thats because you carry this child in you that struggled to feel right because of a presence that never RESPECTED or allowed you to FEEL good when you did something or achieved something. Actually, Rose took time to learn more about you and noticed how you struggled with a mother that was not happy unless things are done HER way and she never really allowed you to feel "good enough". Yes, that does play a role in your ongoing challenge.

Quote:
Like my mother, she wants help the way she wants it, even when most of us think that is not helpful at all. She doesn't want what I have to give and honestly think it would help her most. She wants what she wants which is just short term relief with long term consequences. It's depressing. I can't win.
This is good, the way you articulated this. This is what contributes to YOUR cognitive dissonance, and how you struggle for so many days when you set a boundary, or put in effort. When it comes to a person like your mother, there is NO WIN. How awful for a child to have to grow up with that kind of presence. A child that FEELS IT but doesn't have a clue about what to do about it and learns that no matter what is tried, it's the same.

Quote:
She wants what she wants which is just short term relief with long term consequences
This is especially important to point out. This is what you saw happen many times, and YOU suffered the consequences from her decisions too. It actually affected you so much that you feel very uncomfortable attaining anything that holds you hostage in a way until paying it off. This is why you choose to save up to purchase instead. (smarter)

Yes, I bet your sister is nice, however, she is being like your mother in wanting a new car even though she and her husband are unemployed. And she wants satisfaction so much that she is asking you to be responsible for the financing. That is NOT anything you should ever agree to do. And that triggers that challenged inner child part who learned to feel bad when her mother did not get what SHE wanted. And because you have a job and are doing a good job at supporting yourself and your child, you feel guilty when you don't risk that to please your sister's needs? Like you somehow owe it to her to give in? That's not healthy thinking now is it? Would you want to teach your own daughter to feel that way? Or struggle like that? Ofcourse not because you want her to feel and be confident and see how her mother works hard and can support herself "responsibly". Also, if your daughter came to you with this challenge, I am certain you would advise her not to put herself at risk so someone else can have a new car, and someone else doesn't even have a job.

It sounds like your sister can be like your mother, not really thinking about the long term consequences when she wants something right now. What's even worse is how she even thinks it's ok to ask you to bear that burden where if she can't make it, you get left with the long term burden. And you worry about things going bad if you say no? Well, things can go VERY BAD if you were to say YES. And this has left you with that old struggle, that cognitive dissonance of "I can't WIN" right? When you work and get paid, you deserve to feel good about it, after all you worked for that paycheck. But you struggle to feel good, yet, that's this old crappy cognitive dissonance you were imprinted with as a child that you keep fighting. So what you need to do is work hard in your own mind to keep telling yourself YOU DESERVE to feel good when you work at being a RESPONSIBLE ADULT. Isn't that what you want your daughter to feel? Isn't that the example you are setting for HER? So, you have to not only show your daughter PRIDE in SELF, but also that inner child inside of you too.

You are not responsible for your sister or giving of yourself like this so she can get instant gratification. You are RESPONSIBLE for your own happiness and that of your daughter and you deserve to set boundaries for that and feel ok with it instead of the guilt you struggle with that goes very far back in you that your mother instilled in you.

What you CAN do is you can sit your sister down and let her know you love her, but you don't want to make decisions like you saw your mother make, and you work hard at being different and being responsible and you want your own daughter to experience something different than you did with your mothers need for instant gratification that led to bad consequences.

You don't have to present stories that can get her looking for a different way to ask you either. The best way to handle it is SPEAKING THE TRUTH.

Last edited by Open Eyes; Sep 29, 2020 at 12:34 PM..
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Default Sep 29, 2020 at 01:23 PM
  #36
Its called tough love not the bank of @Biba_yu

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Default Oct 06, 2020 at 08:04 AM
  #37
Thank you all for generous advices, I decided it's not good idea to take a loan when you are not comfortable with it. As I may add, my sister is a person who doesn't know value of money which is good and bad. She is not obsessed with money and savings and she is overly generous with money (so is her husband) when they have it. Ironically, all the people who take money from them at those times, disappear when money is gone, and these two learn absolutely nothing! I never took or loaned money from them. He is freelancer, she doesn't work, which is totally ok, but worries me when she doesn't see herself as valuable person because she doesn't earn or have a job. On the other hand, she is quite intelligent and educated and she could have job if she wanted to, but she persists that "no one would hire her so why even try". Which is a logic I don't agree with. When you don't work hard for your money, you don't value that money. You spend it, don't save and you think other people are also that easy on giving money away or taking loans. That is one advice I tried to give her many times. She says she doesn't feel like valuable person because she doesn't have a job and she hates being dependent on her husband. But at least trying to get a job-no! I told her many times, she is intelligent, talented, smart, charismatic, I bet tons of employers would like to hire her. No. Just no, why bother. So what can I do more?

My mom is another story, she is very sick, physically but also has some mental illness so I can't judge her. I really can't,, it's not her fault she is sick.
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Default Nov 13, 2020 at 11:09 AM
  #38
I would advise you not to, loaning to family and loaning from them can cause relationship issues, it usually does not end up good for the people involved.
I would loan to family and loan from them but it wouldnt be more than £50. I do not think you should take out a loan for them.
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