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Default Oct 21, 2020 at 02:55 PM
  #21
@sarahsweets;

I said in my reply to OpenEyes that my daddy's family are hardcore bigots. They hate anyone who does not look and think like them. I'm glad we live at opposite ends of the country. I'd probably end up shooting off my mother to them if I had to deal with them now. I think you are wise to not spend the holidays with your uncle, etc.

I might be spending the holidays with family of my best friend. The relatives are very conservative, very bigoted. I'm trying to sort out what I can say or do if they start in. On one hand I don't want to have to listen to hate speech. On the other hand, I will be at their home. There's no way in hades I'm going to change the way they think/believe. I'm thinking of asking them not to use those words around me.

As for why racist/bigoted people seem to be everywhere lately... I believe they've been around all along. It's that the current environment gives them permission to be open about it.
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Default Oct 21, 2020 at 03:05 PM
  #22
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Open Eyes, I disagree that the root of racism is fear. At least it isn't always. My best friend's family are hard core racists. They are not afraid of minorities. They just plain hate anyone who does not look and think like them.

Last year one of them looked at me oddly and asked if I was a "tree hugger." Looked 'em in the eye and said "Yep, all my life." I suspect it changed their opinion of me.

My daddy's family are all redneck bigots. Again, they don't fear minorities they just flat out hate anyone "different." They consider anyone who is not white, male and of European descent as inferior. To their "credit" (heavy sarcasm) they are equal opportunity bigots. Whether it's skin color, ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender, political beliefs, if you ain't just like them you are less than and hated.


Perhaps the fear for them is accepting, some can NEVER accept and simply choose to hate. What gets me is hating due to skin color. My husband has olive skin color as he takes after his mother who comes from Portugal and portugese heritage. My daughter inherited what I consider a beautiful skin color, always somewhat tan? What I did not know until she was older is how she faced discrimination where some of her piers insisted she must be mexican or hispanic and was not "white" enough. Ugh, she never told me that when it happened and kept it to herself. My daughter was stunningly beautiful in her high school years, she did not think so according to her piers. (Just want to mention I live in a VERY blue state)

So it's unfortunate in that some individuals do "hate due to skin color", yes you are right.
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Default Oct 21, 2020 at 03:31 PM
  #23
“Equal opportunity bigots”. Lol I know it’s not funny but made me chuckle, equal opportunity haters. Hate everyone who isn’t like them. I am convinced hate comes from ignorance. Some people don’t comprehend much and don’t know much (not due to cognitive limitations, simply due to lack of desire to learn anything), live isolated lives, read conspiracy theories, repeat what others say mindlessly, never travelled and never experienced diversity and are too lazy to learn. Sadly their ignorance causes problems to others who are on a receiving end of their hatred. Sad.

I kind of agree that most people don’t change their ways. But some do. The ones willing to learn and explore and step out of their limited surrounding and open their horizons. Some do change their ways. For example, I know people who were convinced that homosexuality is a choice, they simply lack education and knowledge on the matter. When they made an effort to learn, they discovered how wrong they were. It’s commendable. It’s never too late to learn and grow. There is hope for some people.
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Default Oct 21, 2020 at 03:32 PM
  #24
Oh I agree lizard lady, bigots were always there. They are just more comfortable exposing their views right now.
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Default Oct 21, 2020 at 03:49 PM
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I grew up with Black kids as friends my entire life. My best friend in 1st grade was a Black boy in my class My 2nd best friend was a Hispanic boy. My 3rd best friend was an Asian girl. In first grade! My parents would let me walk home from school to their houses (this was in the 1970s). I learned about these 3 cultures from my elementary school friends’ families, which I’m so grateful for.

The rude awakening came by the time I hit high school. Kids in high school and college can and are SO racist, when they don’t grow up in a family environment where tolerance of all races is the norm. I remember eating dinner at my friend Kyle’s when I was 8 years old. His older siblings and his parents just accepted me — this little while girl — for who I was, not b/c I was white. They taught me about soul food, gospel music, and were really nice to me and I always felt happy at Kyle’s house. But the kids I went to high school with — rich white kids who never experienced racial diversity and were just complete assholes to any minority students who were enrolled there. I’ll never forget it. Same story at my college; despite the racial diversity, racist white kids galore there from wealthy families. My best friend in college was a Black gal from Detroit. She was so much fun! We were great friends.

I have zero tolerance for racists. Maybe that makes me as bad as the racists? That I won’t tolerate bigotry?
 
 
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Default Oct 21, 2020 at 03:57 PM
  #26
Oh I disagree as what I shared about my daughter happened 20 years ago. I also learned there can be bigotry/dicrimination in both political parties. Perhaps it's more evident when one is older and experienced it. That being said, it tends to be more prevelent in areas in the south.
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Default Oct 21, 2020 at 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Motts View Post
I grew up with Black kids as friends my entire life. My best friend in 1st grade was a Black boy in my class My 2nd best friend was a Hispanic boy. My 3rd best friend was an Asian girl. In first grade! My parents would let me walk home from school to their houses (this was in the 1970s). I learned about these 3 cultures from my elementary school friends’ families, which I’m so grateful for.

The rude awakening came by the time I hit high school. Kids in high school and college can and are SO racist, when they don’t grow up in a family environment where tolerance of all races is the norm. I remember eating dinner at my friend Kyle’s when I was 8 years old. His older siblings and his parents just accepted me — this little while girl — for who I was, not b/c I was white. They taught me about soul food, gospel music, and were really nice to me and I always felt happy at Kyle’s house. But the kids I went to high school with — rich white kids who never experienced racial diversity and were just complete assholes to any minority students who were enrolled there. I’ll never forget it. Same story at my college; despite the racial diversity, racist white kids galore there from wealthy families. My best friend in college was a Black gal from Detroit. She was so much fun! We were great friends.

I have zero tolerance for racists. Maybe that makes me as bad as the racists? That I won’t tolerate bigotry?
When your early imprinting allows you to experience others of different races/colors/ethnicities/religions comfortably it can be a bit of a shocker once you get exposed to racism/discrimination and prejudice. Yes, now that you mention it, it was high school and college that my daughter was challenged.

Last edited by Open Eyes; Oct 21, 2020 at 04:42 PM..
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Default Oct 21, 2020 at 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Open Eyes View Post
Oh I disagree as what I shared about my daughter happened 20 years ago. I also learned there can be bigotry/dicrimination in both political parties. Perhaps it's more evident when one is older and experienced it. That being said, it tends to be more prevelent in areas in the south.
Open Eyes, having grown up in the north and lived my adult life in the south neither one has more discrimination/bigotry. Southerners are just more open about it. In general a bigot in the south is open about their bigotry. In the north, again in general, bigots closet their ugly thoughts. They act accepting when a minority person is present, but the ugliness comes out when they are gone.
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Default Oct 21, 2020 at 04:49 PM
  #29
Thanks Liz, I have lived all my life in the northeast so I don't have first hand experience other than what I have read when it comes to the south. However, when I was younger and my parents did take us down south they mentioned behaviors were going to be a bit different so we would be better prepared for what we saw/experienced. Yes, you are right in that it is more closeted in the north, yet it's still there as I mentioned.
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Default Oct 21, 2020 at 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Motts View Post
I grew up with Black kids as friends my entire life. My best friend in 1st grade was a Black boy in my class My 2nd best friend was a Hispanic boy. My 3rd best friend was an Asian girl. In first grade! My parents would let me walk home from school to their houses (this was in the 1970s). I learned about these 3 cultures from my elementary school friends’ families, which I’m so grateful for.

The rude awakening came by the time I hit high school. Kids in high school and college can and are SO racist, when they don’t grow up in a family environment where tolerance of all races is the norm. I remember eating dinner at my friend Kyle’s when I was 8 years old. His older siblings and his parents just accepted me — this little while girl — for who I was, not b/c I was white. They taught me about soul food, gospel music, and were really nice to me and I always felt happy at Kyle’s house. But the kids I went to high school with — rich white kids who never experienced racial diversity and were just complete assholes to any minority students who were enrolled there. I’ll never forget it. Same story at my college; despite the racial diversity, racist white kids galore there from wealthy families. My best friend in college was a Black gal from Detroit. She was so much fun! We were great friends.

I have zero tolerance for racists. Maybe that makes me as bad as the racists? That I won’t tolerate bigotry?
Yup. Great points. No I don’t think not accepting bigotry makes us just as bad as them. Actually bigots like to claim that those who don’t accept bigotry are intolerant and accepting prejudice is a form of tolerance. It makes zero sense.
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Default Oct 22, 2020 at 12:18 PM
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Yup. Great points. No I don’t think not accepting bigotry makes us just as bad as them. Actually bigots like to claim that those who don’t accept bigotry are intolerant and accepting prejudice is a form of tolerance. It makes zero sense.
Good point divine and thinking back when my mother explained to me how blacks were treated I was too young to even think about accepting. The conversation that took place was meant to impress on me that it was simply NOT okay.

What doesn't make sense to me is KNOWING how a person has said racist things, knowing because I was alive when it happened and I saw the affects of it first hand and facing people that want you think IT'S OKAY. That a person stands beside him even though this person pointed out the hipocracy he represents. And it isn't just once or long ago either, things are STILL stated that show it's still THERE.

YES, you are right in that it makes ZERO sense. Yet, I am told to be TOLARANT? "You aint black if you don't vote for me, I own you"? Not 40 years ago, said NOW. A black man becomes president and here is this individual literally claiming this black man's success like HE owns it? Oh, that's right I have to pretend and tolerate. And god forbid I say anything either. Why can't I be able to talk about the individual without it somehow being not allowed or erased?

Last edited by Open Eyes; Oct 22, 2020 at 12:53 PM..
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Default Oct 22, 2020 at 12:49 PM
  #32
@sarahsweets

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My immediate family will not be doing holidays with them but with Fauci's guidelines it gives us an out. My brother and I told my mom that they need to know the real reason and I know she is dreading the convo.
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Well if she chose to go which she has said she won’t but if she did I would go with her so she wouldn’t be odd man out.
Hi @sarahsweets, I here offer some "devil's advocate" food for thought:

Whether Trump wins or loses, it sounds like the discussions at Thanksgiving are going to be offensive and painful. You've requested many times not to be exposed to that. Perhaps you should not compromise those requests in order to bail her out if she chooses to accept those discussions. Perhaps you should stick to your guns.

On the other hand, if you pressure her to have a convo that she doesn't want to have, you perhaps are intervening in something that doesn't concern you: her relationship with her brother. If she wants to use Fauci to avoid a difficult conversation, perhaps that is up to her to decide.
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Default Oct 22, 2020 at 01:34 PM
  #33
@sarahsweets i agree with bill3. If you have something you want to say to this family, you are welcome, but i dont think you should dictate to other people what they should say? Does Miss Manners have an RSVP form letter for that? Easy for me to say, i have been avoiding family gatherings for a few years now. COVID is just leveling the playing field for me.
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Default Oct 22, 2020 at 02:00 PM
  #34
Behavior! In 2012 two men sit across from each other for a debate that I sit and watch, many sat and watched. One man literally interupts the other man "72" times, laughs at him, condescends to him and bullies him. The next day I learned that the individual who behaved so badly won that debate. Does that make sense? When is that behavior acceptable?

Tolerance?

This past Tuesday two police officers went to a domestic situation call. They did not think it was as bad as it was because no violence had taken place. They faced an Illegal that had a gun and shot at them Killing one officer and injuring the other. The officer that was killed was a black man who was a very respected family man and getting ready to retire. And the Illegal already had a record. Where is BLM? Why is this not something all the news is covering? Doesn't this black man's life matter?

Would it have helped if these officers had a psychologist in the car with them? Would it have helped if they shot this other man in the leg? Do people get to know that often the most dangerous calls are domestic disturbances?

Tolerance?

What does this have to do with the OP's situation? Because there are times that it doesn't really make a difference to say anything. That people will not listen if it's not something they care to hear. That trying to say something may even end up with the person being hated. And often the parent just tries to get along and accept or tolerate, after all, it's family.

Last edited by Open Eyes; Oct 22, 2020 at 02:47 PM..
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Default Oct 22, 2020 at 06:40 PM
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