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Trig Nov 21, 2020 at 02:34 AM
  #1
My brother is going through a nasty divorce. They have two kids, 15 and 12. The kids are going back and forth between the parents' homes every few days. They have very little stability. And the parenting is, well, my brother is very angry, and I can see that anger and frustrating being directed at his sons. The mother is unstable. I don't know what exactly is going on with her, but she is highly manipulative and emotionally abusive.

The eldest son, my nephew, is having severe anger issues. My brother had mentioned this to me previously. With COVID and being shipped every few days between his parents' homes, he doesn't have any time to process anything and he feels like a pawn for his parents. They also come down on him because he's feeling angry and acting out. His grades slip so they come down on him harder, take away his electronics and stuff, and he gets angrier. His girlfriend's mom made them cut off contact too because her grades were slipping too.

My brother thought maybe if they get a dog again that it might help my nephew with emotional support. So my retired service dog is working this weekend, I just got home from taking him over there, and my nephew was petting him and cuddling him and taking emotional support. It's just a weekend "loan" of a dog who is very good at emotional support.

When I got there tonight I saw the marks on my nephew's arm, and I knew what they were immediately, He'd been self-harming. I told my brother I wanted to talk alone to him because I understand what he's going through in a way he and the mom don't. He agreed, but even then he lectured my nephew to sit and talk to me while he and the younger nephew go to the store. That was frustrating for me because what I see is that every time he's feeling upset or angry about what's happening to him, he's getting punished and forced into further isolation which compounds the problem, not solves it. And with COVID the isolation is even worse.

So I spent some time talking to my nephew alone for like an hour. We talked about why he was harming himself and what he was feeling. I asked him about his therapist and what support he's getting. It's not enough. Also, his parents want to control all of it, so he doesn't feel like he can say what he needs to confidentially, to a trusted person. I don't know if it's true, but it's what he perceives is true. He's also on a medication, and the second he harmed, his mom called the pdoc and had the medication increased. I'm disgusted and shocked. First of all, I suspect that he's having a reaction to that particular medication, because it's the same one I had a reaction to, plus it's known to have these reactions. PLUS HE'S A KID going through trauma. An AD might not be the best choice versus therapy. And if the kid gets worse after you start meds...um, maybe the meds are making it worse? Also his dad, my brother, does his teletherapy at home, and even though he's in his room, my nephew hears the whole thing, and it's upsetting to him. Sigh...

So we talked about what my nephew wants out of life. We made a plan together and an agreement if he feels like harming himself all the things he can do and will do before he does that, and then he will call me before he does that. I'm going to try and get the parents to let him come stay with me for a day or two and just decompress. The whole environment is hostile. I know my brother doesn't mean it to be. They really need family therapy.

I'm trying to find a teen group for my nephew. I'm just shocked at how controlling his parents want to be, and no wonder he is getting worse. He also doesn't trust his T because his T told his dad that he wasn't participating and my brother/the dad came down on him for not doing better in therapy. WTF.

My nephew and I agreed that I would talk to his dad about him staying with me for a few days or coming to visit to get some space, and about my brother doing therapy in the house so that he can't hear him and get upset, and asking about changing the meds.

When we were finished talking, my nephew said to me "I trust you." I don't think he really trusts anyone much right now. He also seems really mature for 15, and to me, that speaks of him witnessing a lot of stuff that he probably shouldn't.

His parents are freaking out because he gets angry and gets aggressive and even violent when he's angry. But I think it's because he's not really allowed to feel his anger. So he holds it in until he bursts. They are afraid of him. He said in a dark way it's probably good. I asked him to tell me about that, and he said that if they are afraid of him they won't hurt him. And I responded, yes, but then they don't trust you if they are afraid of you and you can't be close. He admitted that he wants to at least be close to his little brother.

So my job now is to broach the subject with my brother without him feeling attacked.

My training is in patient advocacy and as a peer support specialist. I have manned crisis lines and talked people through suicidal urges and self harm urges. I don't want to overstep, but I can tell what's serving for "treatment" right now is more like "punishment" and you can't "punish" depression or ADHD out of a kid.

I'm also horrified that they are controlling his therapy the way they are. He's 15. He deserves a safe space.

He said he liked his youth group at church, but he feels like the adult leader is in cahoots with his parents. I am hoping I can find him some version of a NAMI peer support group.

i would appreciate any advice to help my nephew.

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Default Nov 21, 2020 at 05:54 AM
  #2
How long has he been on medication?

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Default Nov 21, 2020 at 08:42 AM
  #3
The things that you are doing is what I would have suggested, so I really don't have any more advice. I think you are on the right track. The whole situation sounds awful. Your nephew is very lucky to have you looking out for him.
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Default Nov 21, 2020 at 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
How long has he been on medication?
Hes been on adhd medication a while. The AD is newer but long enough to be having an effect.

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Default Nov 21, 2020 at 09:02 AM
  #5
He's really lucky to have you as an uncle @seesaw . This reminds me of some stuff I went through with my step son. I was lucky that I could spend lots of time with him, and help him get some strength and independence. I don't know if this is good advice, just my initial thoughts, but I would really support all his ideas about the adults he doesn't trust, and although he's very young, I would support his distancing from them, and his self care.
It is not good to have these levels of distrust, and have people scared of you. I was volatile as a teenager, and it really scared my mum, but she wasn't someone that could help me, and she was actually someone that really drained me. She thought she needed to make my life easier, and pressured me into things and out of things. It just wasn't right. My life was only better for distancing, and getting independence from her.
Of course he needs his parents at 15, but he doesn't need to like them. If they're doing things that are deeply hurting him, and giving him all this anger and despair, he needs some outlet for that. Are there things he does enjoy doing? Any things that put him in the moment, and channel his own ideas or passions? I think all the encouragement, and validation you can give will be well worth giving. It's really sad things are so messed up at home for him
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Default Nov 21, 2020 at 09:38 AM
  #6
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Originally Posted by KBMK View Post
He's really lucky to have you as an uncle @seesaw . This reminds me of some stuff I went through with my step son. I was lucky that I could spend lots of time with him, and help him get some strength and independence. I don't know if this is good advice, just my initial thoughts, but I would really support all his ideas about the adults he doesn't trust, and although he's very young, I would support his distancing from them, and his self care.

It is not good to have these levels of distrust, and have people scared of you. I was volatile as a teenager, and it really scared my mum, but she wasn't someone that could help me, and she was actually someone that really drained me. She thought she needed to make my life easier, and pressured me into things and out of things. It just wasn't right. My life was only better for distancing, and getting independence from her.

Of course he needs his parents at 15, but he doesn't need to like them. If they're doing things that are deeply hurting him, and giving him all this anger and despair, he needs some outlet for that. Are there things he does enjoy doing? Any things that put him in the moment, and channel his own ideas or passions? I think all the encouragement, and validation you can give will be well worth giving. It's really sad things are so messed up at home for him
Thanks, KMBK. Yeah, I'm trying to negotiate to get him some time away from them. That's hard because they likely see it as a reward and not as part of his "treatment." And his mom is going to be a hard sell on that because she's so controlling and manipulative.

Next week she's putting the boys on a plane, the week of Thanksgiving when we've been told not to travel and stay safe, and having them go visit her mother, who is in her 70s or 80s. My brother and I are both upset by this because there is real danger there. When they get back, I am not sure I want to visit with them until they have quarantined for 2 weeks, but I also think the concern I have for my nephew's well being may mean I have to.

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Primary Dx: C-PTSD and Severe Chronic Treatment Resistant Major Depressive Disorder
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Meds I've tried: Prozac, Zoloft, Celexa, Effexor, Remeron, Elavil, Wellbutrin, Risperidone, Abilify, Prazosin, Paxil, Trazadone, Tramadol, Topomax, Xanax, Propranolol, Valium, Visteril, Vraylar, Selinor, Clonopin, Ambien

Treatments I've done: CBT, DBT, Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS), Talk therapy, psychotherapy, exercise, diet, sleeping more, sleeping less...

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Default Nov 21, 2020 at 10:06 AM
  #7
That's rough. Do take care of yourself. Do you think there could be any positives to them spending some time with their grandmother? It does seem a strange thing to do under the circumstances, and could be really dangerous for her!
It sounds like a really complicated and painful situation.
It sounds like you get on fairly well with your brother too? You said the boy's mother is emotionally abusive. Do you think your brother and his kid's are being abused? It's just usually the case that family/couples therapy isn't effective when there is an abusive dynamic. If she isn't getting any help for herself, and it's affecting the rest of the family very badly, it could be the case that only distancing from her will make things better. That's not always something you can promote easily either. If this is the case, I would really take care with what you say to, and about her. It could actually be a good thing that she is scared of your nephew.
In my experience abusers do not have healthy shame. They do not respect people. They see people as objects that are either useful, problematic (solveable), or best avoided. If she is pushing her son away rather than using him or "solving" him, then that is actually the most positive option, unfortunately. This might all be way off base...I hope so, but guess not
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Default Nov 21, 2020 at 10:24 AM
  #8
Just another thought...if your brother is very stressed/angry/upset, and not abusive, it could be a good thing to approach this situation in terms of easing his burden, as divorcing an abusive spouse is a total nightmare, and he probably needs all the encouragement and validation he can get too. Also very lucky to have you as a brother, if that is the case
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Default Nov 21, 2020 at 12:06 PM
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That's rough. Do take care of yourself. Do you think there could be any positives to them spending some time with their grandmother? It does seem a strange thing to do under the circumstances, and could be really dangerous for her!
It sounds like a really complicated and painful situation.
It sounds like you get on fairly well with your brother too? You said the boy's mother is emotionally abusive. Do you think your brother and his kid's are being abused? It's just usually the case that family/couples therapy isn't effective when there is an abusive dynamic. If she isn't getting any help for herself, and it's affecting the rest of the family very badly, it could be the case that only distancing from her will make things better. That's not always something you can promote easily either. If this is the case, I would really take care with what you say to, and about her. It could actually be a good thing that she is scared of your nephew.
In my experience abusers do not have healthy shame. They do not respect people. They see people as objects that are either useful, problematic (solveable), or best avoided. If she is pushing her son away rather than using him or "solving" him, then that is actually the most positive option, unfortunately. This might all be way off base...I hope so, but guess not
My brother has been diagnosed with PTSD from the abuse, although on the spectrum I think it's mild PTSD (as compared to mine which is debilitating and severe), but I can still see how my brother's processing of his PTSD is somewhat abusive to the kids. He's very angry too, and acts very angry. He's also being somewhat controlling as well.

I don't think there is any physical abuse going on, but there is loads of emotional abuse and childhood emotional neglect. My brother is in therapy, I believe the ex-wife/mom is too, but I don't think it's useful when there is this abuse dynamic. I think the ex-wife/mom has a personality disorder (it wouldn't surprise me that my brother married her because our mom has BPD, although it's much milder in her older age now), and our bio-father has NPD.

What I witnessed last night was literally like a scene out of my own very screwed up childhood. I actually managed to stay okay throughout all of it, but when I left the emotional toll definitely took over for a bit.

I agree with you about being careful what I say about the mom. I don't want to be seen as festering some kind of alienation from her (although he's already alienated). My goal is to help my nephew be as healthy as possible and for them to have healthy relationships. But the communication is just so damn dysfunctional over there. It's actually incredible to me - I feel like, you know, I had a full mental break, and now disabled with cPTSD and other disorders, but my communication and self care is so much healthier than theirs. But they are also in the middle of it, and they aren't having enough awareness to be mindful of how they are being in the middle of it.

What I'm most concerned about is that she hops on the phone and gets the pdoc to increase the anti-depressant dose at the drop of a hat, without the pdoc seeing my nephew. Frankly, as a patient advocate and a family/peer support specialist, I'm concerned I might be in the realm of needing to report this per mandatory reporting laws. I need to talk to a colleague who has done more social work with kids (I don't typically work a lot with kids/teens) and get some perspective. I've conferred with someone else on the medication issue (someone knowledgeable) and they are also concerned.

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Meds I've tried: Prozac, Zoloft, Celexa, Effexor, Remeron, Elavil, Wellbutrin, Risperidone, Abilify, Prazosin, Paxil, Trazadone, Tramadol, Topomax, Xanax, Propranolol, Valium, Visteril, Vraylar, Selinor, Clonopin, Ambien

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Default Nov 21, 2020 at 12:17 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by KBMK View Post
Just another thought...if your brother is very stressed/angry/upset, and not abusive, it could be a good thing to approach this situation in terms of easing his burden, as divorcing an abusive spouse is a total nightmare, and he probably needs all the encouragement and validation he can get too. Also very lucky to have you as a brother, if that is the case
Yeah, I am taking a day or two to consider my words, because I want to approach him in a way that's also kind to him, but he's also being kind of an arse to his kids right now. And I know I don't see what it is 24/7 - but if everything is a grudge and based on every thing from before, my nephew doesn't have any opportunity for the relationships to be anything different. And that's sad and terrible for all of them.

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Default Nov 21, 2020 at 12:53 PM
  #11
Really tough, that's got to be triggering for you too. Sounds like advice from colleges is a great idea.
I get the desire to encourage healthy relationships, but the way I see it, when it comes to abuse, especially for children, safety has to be prioritized, and your nephew is clearly at risk of harm and is suffering damage. It's really sad.
It's good that his parents are both in therapy. That should help with PTSD. Less likely to help with BPD or NPD, unless the person's gained awareness of their own disorder and they're not just projecting/blaming. My mum's behaviour fitted with NPD, and my dad's with PTSD. My dad was fairly volatile, and sometimes overly critical, but looking back I can see how hard he was trying, and appreciate so much of what he gave me. Really was very caring though angry, depressed, and confused.
Still have lots of resentment for my mother's behaviour. I married a man whose behaviour fits with NPD too, and ended up suffering physical abuse. I really tried to encourage a healthy relationship between him and his son. That always seemed the right thing, but when I had to leave, I had a long talk with my step son. He was sixteen at the time, and really very independent for that age.
I didn't let on how bad the abuse had got, and he really wasn't party to it, but there was a lot of tension and discomfort in our home.
I doubted then whether he was safe with his dad (I hadn't before). I asked if he felt safe, and what he would do if he didn't. He said he was safe, just didn't like his dad's moods, and he would go to his grandma and granda's. He told me that he was angry that I did everything his dad said. I didn't do that, but he might have heard his dad (that day) saying I should leave. He also said his dad was "like a robot". I think his dad was scared of him. I think he was scared of me too, and kept a lot hidden about himself, until I was at my most vulnerable.
It's really impossible to know what's going on in private. I think my step son's mum might have had a personality disorder too. She was at least emotionally immature, badly jealous, and he was often in tears because she had cried to him about how he "loved other people more than her", and things like that. He really was heavily burdened at a young age. I'm sure you know the feeling, which is why you want to help your nephew.
Really would just suggest encouraging him in his own endeavours, and only encouraging him to be safe with his parents, and understand their limits. He shouldn't take on the burden of their suffering at such a young age. Poor kid
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Default Nov 21, 2020 at 01:07 PM
  #12
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Really tough, that's got to be triggering for you too. Sounds like advice from colleges is a great idea.
I get the desire to encourage healthy relationships, but the way I see it, when it comes to abuse, especially for children, safety has to be prioritized, and your nephew is clearly at risk of harm and is suffering damage. It's really sad.
It's good that his parents are both in therapy. That should help with PTSD. Less likely to help with BPD or NPD, unless the person's gained awareness of their own disorder and they're not just projecting/blaming. My mum's behaviour fitted with NPD, and my dad's with PTSD. My dad was fairly volatile, and sometimes overly critical, but looking back I can see how hard he was trying, and appreciate so much of what he gave me. Really was very caring though angry, depressed, and confused.
Still have lots of resentment for my mother's behaviour. I married a man whose behaviour fits with NPD too, and ended up suffering physical abuse. I really tried to encourage a healthy relationship between him and his son. That always seemed the right thing, but when I had to leave, I had a long talk with my step son. He was sixteen at the time, and really very independent for that age.
I didn't let on how bad the abuse had got, and he really wasn't party to it, but there was a lot of tension and discomfort in our home.
I doubted then whether he was safe with his dad (I hadn't before). I asked if he felt safe, and what he would do if he didn't. He said he was safe, just didn't like his dad's moods, and he would go to his grandma and granda's. He told me that he was angry that I did everything his dad said. I didn't do that, but he might have heard his dad (that day) saying I should leave. He also said his dad was "like a robot". I think his dad was scared of him. I think he was scared of me too, and kept a lot hidden about himself, until I was at my most vulnerable.
It's really impossible to know what's going on in private. I think my step son's mum might have had a personality disorder too. She was at least emotionally immature, badly jealous, and he was often in tears because she had cried to him about how he "loved other people more than her", and things like that. He really was heavily burdened at a young age. I'm sure you know the feeling, which is why you want to help your nephew.
Really would just suggest encouraging him in his own endeavours, and only encouraging him to be safe with his parents, and understand their limits. He shouldn't take on the burden of their suffering at such a young age. Poor kid
Yeah, I am really trying to think, what are the things I can do to help, and also what are the things I want to do to help but might backfire? I really want to focus on what I can do that's actionable, which are the 3 things I agreed with my nephew I would do.

I want to try and talk to my brother, but I don't want it to come off as an attack, more of a "I want you to be aware of what I see, and it's not an indictment, just be aware of how you occur for me and possibly for your kids right now..."

Honestly it seems like they all just need a break. This might sound weird, but it's almost like they are over-trying to fix things. Or, maybe a better way to say it is that they are trying to FIX him instead of UNDERSTAND him. (and each other)

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Primary Dx: C-PTSD and Severe Chronic Treatment Resistant Major Depressive Disorder
Secondary Dx: Generalized Anxiety Disorder with mild Agoraphobia.

Meds I've tried: Prozac, Zoloft, Celexa, Effexor, Remeron, Elavil, Wellbutrin, Risperidone, Abilify, Prazosin, Paxil, Trazadone, Tramadol, Topomax, Xanax, Propranolol, Valium, Visteril, Vraylar, Selinor, Clonopin, Ambien

Treatments I've done: CBT, DBT, Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS), Talk therapy, psychotherapy, exercise, diet, sleeping more, sleeping less...
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Default Nov 21, 2020 at 02:12 PM
  #13
It doesn't sound weird at all. They're both obviously concerned. I think the big difference is whether they're trying to make him better for him, or better for them. That's hard to work out.
When I was a teen, my dad was pushy about having a routine, staying active, and things like that, which was a bit too much, sometimes really upsetting, and not totally appropriate, but wasn't damaging. He was mad at the world, and it sometimes got him aggressive, but I could always stand up to him and make myself heard with him.
My mum pushed for what she could do to fix me, had no trust or faith in me whatsoever, and really undermined me, and sabotaged my life. Didn't actually want me to be better, just less problematic for her. She could not handle her own disappointment. I wouldn't have been able to say that at 15, but was always happier away from my mum. I would have said at the time that she was a good person, and I wasn't a good person. My dad always thought that way, and my brother still things that way, himself.
Just saying there is different ways of trying too hard, and it's not always the person that shouts the loudest that's dominating the situation.
It's good that your nephew wants to be closer to his little brother, and that he can trust you.
Positive reinforcement, and encouragement is less likely to backfire, than pointing out flaws...if there are any happy memories or happy times you can draw on? I guess it's also important to let your brother know how his behaviour makes you feel, and hurts his son. With PTSD he is more likely to feel attacked even when he's not being attacked, though. Even if his symptoms don't seem so intense, getting out of an abusive marriage is really dysphoric, and could be really hard for him to get stable after that. If his ex's behaviour has triggered that stress response, he could well be getting triggered often with his kids, too. Think there's any way of helping him shift his try-hard attitude to positive things?... getting him building stuff up, and maintaining things, rather than being in crisis management mode all the time?
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Default Nov 21, 2020 at 02:19 PM
  #14
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Originally Posted by seesaw View Post
Hes been on adhd medication a while. The AD is newer but long enough to be having an effect.
The reason I ask is sometimes medication can exacerbate symptoms. So while his current med might not be helping its possible that another med might. i dont know if I necessarily agree that his anger and outbursts are because he is not allowed to feel his anger or express it at least not completely. One of the hallmarks of adhd is this type of anger. it does have to do a lot with emotional regulation issues but IMO it is something with both a physical sort of cause and behavioral sort of cause. I think its also something that can sometimes remain in check-almost like remission and then flare up when triggered.

Dealing with Anger in Teens with ADHD: Advice for Parents

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Default Nov 21, 2020 at 02:23 PM
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The reason I ask is sometimes medication can exacerbate symptoms. So while his current med might not be helping its possible that another med might. i dont know if I necessarily agree that his anger and outbursts are because he is not allowed to feel his anger or express it at least not completely. One of the hallmarks of adhd is this type of anger. it does have to do a lot with emotional regulation issues but IMO it is something with both a physical sort of cause and behavioral sort of cause. I think its also something that can sometimes remain in check-almost like remission and then flare up when triggered.


Dealing with Anger in Teens with ADHD: Advice for Parents
My problem is that they are treating his adhd, which is neurodivegence, as bad behavior and trying to punish it to fix it, instead of help him deal with it in a healthy way.

I do think the AD he is on is particularly problematic as well.

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Default Nov 21, 2020 at 03:25 PM
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My problem is that they are treating his adhd, which is neurodivegence, as bad behavior and trying to punish it to fix it, instead of help him deal with it in a healthy way.

I do think the AD he is on is particularly problematic as well.

I don’t agree with them treating his adhd as bad behavior but I also do not see personal value in embracing the neurodiverse theory when it comes to these conditions. The reason I feel this way is that the neurodiverse proponents sometimes ignore valid treatments including medication, and focus on a more broad definition of neurodiversity which seems to encompass all the positives while not acknowledging or treating the disabilities which contribute to that theory when there are scientifically sound ways to do so. I’m not saying that medicine always helps or that it’s the only way but i think that viewing someone with adhd as simply neurodiverse is a matter of opinion and belief.

It sounds like his parents are actually leaning on the neurodiverse idea by assuming his deficits are bad choices and bad behavior that he is choosing to behave that way. People with adhd or other brain conditions still must be held to a standard of some sort. And that includes anger and emotional triggers and trauma. Someone with adhd is still expected to attempt to self monitor. If that self monitoring is not possible or not working out many recommend therapy and behavior modification. I think a combination of medication and therapy is the best bet. I say all of this as someone with severe adhd in addition to other things. It’s just my opinion.

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Default Nov 21, 2020 at 03:55 PM
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I don’t agree with them treating his adhd as bad behavior but I also do not see personal value in embracing the neurodiverse theory when it comes to these conditions. The reason I feel this way is that the neurodiverse proponents sometimes ignore valid treatments including medication, and focus on a more broad definition of neurodiversity which seems to encompass all the positives while not acknowledging or treating the disabilities which contribute to that theory when there are scientifically sound ways to do so. I’m not saying that medicine always helps or that it’s the only way but i think that viewing someone with adhd as simply neurodiverse is a matter of opinion and belief.

It sounds like his parents are actually leaning on the neurodiverse idea by assuming his deficits are bad choices and bad behavior that he is choosing to behave that way. People with adhd or other brain conditions still must be held to a standard of some sort. And that includes anger and emotional triggers and trauma. Someone with adhd is still expected to attempt to self monitor. If that self monitoring is not possible or not working out many recommend therapy and behavior modification. I think a combination of medication and therapy is the best bet. I say all of this as someone with severe adhd in addition to other things. It’s just my opinion.
That's fine to have your opinion, Sarah, but I'm actually watching this and watching them punish and punish and punish without giving him any tools to manage his anger or other emotions. I'm well aware and pretty sure my post spoke to my awareness and knowledge of other methods of treatment to help him. Your understanding of neurodivergence is actually 100% backwards. It's not toward labeling things as bad behaviors at all, nor is it on relying on medication.

I think you're ignoring the full picture I've illustrated of the emotional abuse going on and focusing in on one thing and that's not super helpful.

I really don't like the tenor of your comment. I don't really have the energy to argue with you or educate you right now. Please don't continue on this vein in this thread. Thanks.

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Default Nov 21, 2020 at 05:03 PM
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seesaw, I read what you shared and I think you are doing a good job with your nephew and I agree that his parents punishing him will only make things worse. I saw my parents do that with my older brother and it NEVER helped and only made him worse.

YES, individuals with ADHD can be extra challenged when it comes to learning how to control their anger. Actually, Yale has been studying children and what causes them to have temper tantrums and how to better address it instead of punishing. They explained that temper tantrums occur when there is an overload in the amygdala and the child genuinely doesn't know what to do and has a tantrum. So, instead of punishing them the advice is to give them time to calm down and then NOTICE they are making that effort and praise them for it. Taking away things he may already use to help calm him down is also not the answer.

The way you handled your nephew is much healthier because you LISTENED and you can tell how everything going on in his environment is stressing him. When someone has ADHD, they have very busy minds and they like MOTION so being home bound and tossed back and forth from one angry parent to the other is going to definitely aggrivate him and if he has no MOTION, he will have a hard time with the frustration he is experiencing.

I think that when you do talk to your brother, it's better to focus on how his son is struggling, why with his ADHD he can have a harder time controlling his stress and how to give him space instead of punishing him can help him rather than punishing him that is only going to cause MORE limit to him in his effort to manage his challenge with frustration that comes out in anger.

It's very hard to handle this kind of challenge seesaw for someone with ptsd AND a history of dealing with abuse that typically contains anger being thrown at him. It's possible his son triggers him and instead of stepping back, your brother feels anger and loses patience. From what I have noticed by observing my husband who has bad ADHD is they tend to ABSORB. So that means with the ongoing dysfunction your brother is having with his wife, your nephew is listening and ABSORBING. And at his age he doesn't have the coping skills to understand how to navigate with this ongoing problem between his parents. If your brother isn't careful, your nephew may end up using alcohol and that's the last thing your brother wants to happen. I have seen so many that have ADHD in those AA rooms including my husband. All the alcohol does is make things worse and prohibits emotional maturity.

And YES, the wrong medication can make it worse and if he is cutting, that's a red flag that he is probably on the wrong medication and more is not better, and often it can make things even worse.

I do think it's a good idea that your nephew be able to stay with you here and there. Can you take that on?? It's a big responsiblity. Yet, from what you have shared, I think you can provide him with more stability and help him learn to control this anger and manage it better.
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Default Nov 21, 2020 at 05:12 PM
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seesaw, I read what you shared and I think you are doing a good job with your nephew and I agree that his parents punishing him will only make things worse. I saw my parents do that with my older brother and it NEVER helped and only made him worse.


YES, individuals with ADHD can be extra challenged when it comes to learning how to control their anger. Actually, Yale has been studying children and what causes them to have temper tantrums and how to better address it instead ot punishing. They explained that temper tantrums occur when there is an overload in the amygdala and the child genuinely doesn't know what to do and has a tantrum. So, instead of punishing them the advice is to give them time to calm down and then NOTICE they are making that effort and praise them for it. Taking away things he may already use to help calm him down is also not the answer.


The way you handled your nephew is much healthier because you LISTENED and you can tell how everything going on in his environment is stressing him. When someone has ADHD, they have very busy minds and they like MOTION so being home bound and tossed back and forth from one angry parent to the other is going to definitely aggrivate him and if he has no MOTION, he will have a hard time with the frustration he is experiencing.


I think that when you do talk to your brother, it's better to focus on how his son is struggling, why with his ADHD he can have a harder time controlling his stress and how to give him space instead of punishing him can help him rather than punishing him that is only going to cause MORE limit to him in his effort to manage his challenge with frustration that comes out in anger.


It's very hard to handle this kind of challenge seesaw for someone with ptsd AND a history of dealing with abuse that typically contains anger being thrown at him. It's possible his son triggers him and instead of stepping back, your brother feels anger and loses patience. From what I have noticed by observing my husband who has bad ADHD is they tend to ABSORB. So that means with the ongoing dysfunction your brother is having with his wife, your nephew is listening and ABSORBING. And at his age he doesn't have the coping skills to understand how to navigate with this ongoing problem between his parents. If your brother isn't careful, your nephew may end up using alcohol and that's the last thing your brother wants to happen. I have seen so many that have ADHD in those AA rooms including my husband. All the alcohol does is make things worse and prohibits emotional maturity.


And YES, the wrong medication can make it worse and if he is cutting, that's a red flag that he is probably on the wrong medication and more is not better, and often it can make things even worse.


I do think it's a good idea that your nephew be able to stay with you here and there. Can you take that on?? It's a big responsiblity.
Thanks, Open Eyes. I am aware of the studies you mention, and the funny thing is that from a recovery model (versus treatment model) my response to them is, well duh!

My best friend and my stepfather as well as stepbrother have ADHD. I've come to really understand ways to support people with ADHD (and it's no cookie cutter approach but there are some sort of techniques that ring true. I also have seen with many individuals that medication sometimes does and sometimes doesn't help. And there's also a lot of controversy over medicating minors. And I certainly know, probably more than his parents, that pdocs and Ts aren't always up on the latest evidence based treatment.

But regardless, I feel the adhd is too much the focus because most of what I saw was bad regardless of any Dx.

My best friend who struggled with this growing up asked if he has an IEP, and I didn't even remember to ask that. It's really weird because my brother and SIL have always acted like they think they are these really progressive parents, but IMO they are actually acting really backwards.

It's not my job to figure out the best medication for him but to advocate for him so he can thrive. As his aunt and as the stand I am for patients as a patient advocate.

The one thing we talked about too was recognizing when he's angry and then removing himself so he can calm down or use coping methods. We still have to talk to his dad about understanding that my nephew is going to ask to remove himself when he starts feeling his anger triggered so he can de-escalate and just remove from the excess stimulation.

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Default Nov 21, 2020 at 06:52 PM
  #20
Yes, you do keep up with a lot of studies and it's wonderful that you have all that knowledge and can use it to benefit others, I respect that immensely. You have access to the actual research vs what the average individual reads so that's another huge plus.

I agree that there is more to this challenge than your nephews ADHD. And you are seeing things that are very unhealthy and it's hard to advocate for your nephew when you're dealing with your older brother at the same time who is having his own ongoing challenges. And the wild card is the mother who seems very controlling and that's always a big challenge. Add to that the pandemic and how that limits the way the children can distance for their own mental health which makes it even harder.

Is that beach open that you took your dog to? If it is open that would be a nice place to take your nephews so they can get out and away from the chaos. And they can see how you play with your dog who LOVES to play in the water. This pandemic and all the restrictions have made it hard to distance and do fun things. It's especially hard on young teens and children who really need to experience healthy activities.

Actually, what popped in my mind was these two going to visit your mother at her place where they can get out and explore and be away from the conflict.
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