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Default Mar 03, 2017 at 01:56 AM
  #21
I just wrote you a long reply but it disappeared.

This doesn't seem to be the run of the mill erotic transference or an addiction. I think it's more like a cathexis, and the energy gets discharged as sexual excitement. You have to self-soothe (releasing the sexual tension) to deal with the emotional dysregulation.

I've had all sorts of sexual feelings and thoughts from therapy, but when I had what you described here, and for 3 days straight and to the point of feeling torturous, I emailed my therapist about it, and he called me from his car on his way to vacation to confront me. It was odd, and of course he never calls me from his car or on his way to vacation...anyway, he helped stop it.

This was about a couple of years ago. He confronted me really seriously. In a way, he almost confronted me how I'd imagine you'd confront someone with a psychotic transference. Yet, it seemed much more physical, "an energy" than emotional, and I didn't have non-reality issues. Odd. But anyway, it stopped. My sexual feelings and transferences didn't go away, but when he confronted me, it stopped the really intense state like the one you described.

If that's what it is, then it really isn't appropriate for him to encourage you to go on about your sexual fantasies. Think of it like this--a child gets excited and runs around the room really fast and jumps up and down on the bed. You know how wound up kids can get, and they can really get hurt. Well, the appropriate thing to do is calm the child, which might entail a serious talk. That's what I think my therapist did with me. Your therapist, on the other hand, is telling you to jump harder and faster on the bed, and to keep running around the room, even though the child's head is bumping into the ceiling.

I do normally think erotic transference is good to be explored, but I think this has a different quality and isn't technically ET. I'm trying to help, but also, you are the only person besides me who I've ever known to have experienced this.

I'll ask my therapist about the concepts as he's really experienced with sexual things as a psychoanalyst (and with 40 years' experience). I see him tomorrow and will let you know what he says, if you're interested.

Hang in there.
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Default Mar 03, 2017 at 09:39 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Skies View Post
I just wrote you a long reply but it disappeared.

This doesn't seem to be the run of the mill erotic transference or an addiction. I think it's more like a cathexis, and the energy gets discharged as sexual excitement. You have to self-soothe (releasing the sexual tension) to deal with the emotional dysregulation.

I've had all sorts of sexual feelings and thoughts from therapy, but when I had what you described here, and for 3 days straight and to the point of feeling torturous, I emailed my therapist about it, and he called me from his car on his way to vacation to confront me. It was odd, and of course he never calls me from his car or on his way to vacation...anyway, he helped stop it.

This was about a couple of years ago. He confronted me really seriously. In a way, he almost confronted me how I'd imagine you'd confront someone with a psychotic transference. Yet, it seemed much more physical, "an energy" than emotional, and I didn't have non-reality issues. Odd. But anyway, it stopped. My sexual feelings and transferences didn't go away, but when he confronted me, it stopped the really intense state like the one you described.

If that's what it is, then it really isn't appropriate for him to encourage you to go on about your sexual fantasies. Think of it like this--a child gets excited and runs around the room really fast and jumps up and down on the bed. You know how wound up kids can get, and they can really get hurt. Well, the appropriate thing to do is calm the child, which might entail a serious talk. That's what I think my therapist did with me. Your therapist, on the other hand, is telling you to jump harder and faster on the bed, and to keep running around the room, even though the child's head is bumping into the ceiling.

I do normally think erotic transference is good to be explored, but I think this has a different quality and isn't technically ET. I'm trying to help, but also, you are the only person besides me who I've ever known to have experienced this.

I'll ask my therapist about the concepts as he's really experienced with sexual things as a psychoanalyst (and with 40 years' experience). I see him tomorrow and will let you know what he says, if you're interested.

Hang in there.
Yes, thank you very much.
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Default Mar 03, 2017 at 12:44 PM
  #23
(((skies))) what is that? Ive had that happen a few times in my adult life. Ive always thought of it as a scolding and just felt childish and super humiliated. Not always sexual, but a "get a hold of yourself or else!" kinda thing, that sounds like what you are describing.

Sorry for the hijack, but i would like to hear more about this.

And ramona, im sorry, i dont mean to be judgmental. Sometimes, when i find myself saying, "im NOT x", i will turn it around and ask, what does it mean to be x, eg what am i afraid of. But maybe youve already asked yourself that etc.

Ive also yelled at my ts - after all this time theyve been asking me, what am i FEEEEELING, now they expect me to IGNORE my feelings? They would be like, well, just OBSERVE your feelings, you dont have to ACT on them all the time. Good thing, because now i feel like strangling a t!
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Default Mar 03, 2017 at 07:48 PM
  #24
Honestly not entirely sure why I'm doing this to myself. I used to be a really strong person. Now I'm just someone who floats from one situation to the next letting people s**t on me and paying them for the pleasure. Any pain he inflicts on me from this point on is all on me.
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Default Mar 03, 2017 at 08:07 PM
  #25
TMI, sorry.

Last edited by Anonymous37926; Mar 03, 2017 at 10:54 PM..
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Default Mar 04, 2017 at 07:41 PM
  #26
These are the things he's said to me:

"I would never lie to you or be careless with your heart. I'll hold it tenderly in my hands."

"We can be together mentally, emotionally, and spiritually."

"Would you like to hold hands right now?"

(From a poem he read me three times after I told him my feelings): "You do not have to be good. You do not have to walk through the desert for a hundred miles on your knees repenting. You only have to let the soft animal of your body love what it loves."

"You should watch this Brene Brown video on the power of vulnerability."

"I'm not rejecting you. If it wasn't for the boundaries of psychotherapy we'd be having wild passionate sex right now. I'd be all for it."

"Your fantasies sound very appealing."

"I'm not rejecting you. I find you very beautiful and attractive and desirable."

"OK, fine. You're right. I'm rejecting you. This time here in the office to talk about your feelings is all I can offer you."

(After telling him my friends say I'm addicted to him) "Are you saying all addictions are bad? You can be addicted to being kind!"

After sending him an email saying I'm suffering badly and this is nothing like an addiction to being kind: "I hear that you're feeling in pain. If it's too much to bear, I suggest you make an extra appointment."

After asking him what's the point in still coming to see him. "We discussed this. There's value in mourning the loss of the relationship we're not going to have."

I must have sucker written all over my face. I have given this guy SO much money.

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Default Mar 04, 2017 at 07:57 PM
  #27
Ramona, this last post with quotes from your T really reminded me of another story I read on here, from a member called nicoleflynn, maybe try to find it. She had an older thread where she shared things her T said to her over time. Yours sound more benign now, but maybe just the beginning...

I just found it:
https://forums.psychcentral.com/roma...another-t.html
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Default Mar 04, 2017 at 08:12 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Xynesthesia View Post
Ramona, this last post with quotes from your T really reminded me of another story I read on here, from a member called nicoleflynn, maybe try to find it. She had an older thread where she shared things her T said to her over time. Yours sound more benign now, but maybe just the beginning...

I just found it:
https://forums.psychcentral.com/roma...another-t.html
Mine sound benign? Maybe I'm overreacting. He's definitely not grooming me. He has clearly stated he won't be with me. I wish that they WERE just the beginning, but I don't think they are. He does not want me and when I asked him to flat out reject me he did. I think I might just be an ugly loser. Thanks for clarifying!

BYE EVERYBODY!
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Default Mar 04, 2017 at 08:20 PM
  #29
No, you are definitely not overreacting. I wasn't clear when I said "more benign", I just meant that not that explicitly sexually provocative and intrusive. But equally disturbing given the impact on you. I don't think interactions and relationships like these are fun for any client.

I'm sorry if my last post was hurtful, very definitely did not meant it to be! Just wanted to show you something that seemed similar to me and what it ended up over time. Please don't leave
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Default Mar 04, 2017 at 08:26 PM
  #30
Aside from your job a few years ago, is this the first time anybody has said no to you? I cant figure out where you are coming from.

Eta - like you say, i want this. He says, that cant happen, but we can look at it. But you dont really look at it, you take that to mean, ask him again and maybe he will change his mind. But that is not what he is saying. Hes saying, lets look at what it MEEEEEEEANS. Which is why im asking, do you usually get your way?
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Default Mar 04, 2017 at 09:17 PM
  #31
This line jumped out at me:

"I'm not rejecting you. If it wasn't for the boundaries of psychotherapy we'd be having wild passionate sex right now. I'd be all for it."

Because it's very explicit. I don't just mean sexually explicit. But the fact that he's saying, if it wasn't for the ethics of his profession, he'd sleep with you (even though both of you are married--right, he's married, too?) That statement crossed a line. Some of the others didn't, or are subject to interpretation. But that one, there's no questions...

When do you see T2 again? Hugs...
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Default Mar 05, 2017 at 01:15 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by ramonajones View Post
Honestly, when I started telling my three friends about it, I presented it to each of them by saying that I'd been rejected by someone I desperately wanted to be with and thought that they were going to offer me support about being rejected. I really didn't think they'd all tell me I was a victim of therapy abuse. I REALLY don't want this to have happened to me. I don't WANT to be a victim of therapy abuse. I don't know how to handle taking on that label in addition to everything else I've been through in my life. I guess that's the real reason I'm so reluctant to admit this happened. He was kind to me and totally appropriate with me for years, even for the first few months after I brought up the transference I felt like things were OK. I don't know how it all fell apart so miserably and I feel desperate to find a way to make it all OK.
i have found this article to be incredibly helpful at providing me with the insight and courage to finally leave my T of many years, who, although was not sexually abusive to me, i feel was quite emotionally abusive throughout much of our therapy together. please try to have a look at this: Why We Stay: How Childhood Loss, Abandonment and Neglect Can Make It Hard to Leave an Abusive Therapist ? Surviving Therapist Abuse

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Default Mar 05, 2017 at 06:47 AM
  #33
He's terrible. Absolutely terrible
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Default Mar 05, 2017 at 08:10 AM
  #34
I have read that it is not a good idea to let a client know of the t's attraction to them; it is confusing. My t led me on for years. If you would like to know what he said and did, yu can pm me.

A few of the many leading comments my t made: If I were not married I would probably go for it. You are in my heart and in my head.
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Default Mar 05, 2017 at 12:16 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by ramonajones View Post
Mine sound benign? Maybe I'm overreacting. He's definitely not grooming me. He has clearly stated he won't be with me. I wish that they WERE just the beginning, but I don't think they are. He does not want me and when I asked him to flat out reject me he did. I think I might just be an ugly loser. Thanks for clarifying!

BYE EVERYBODY!
Hey, I don't think that's what Xyn was getting at.

Your therapists behavior is clearly confusing and inappropriate. I assume he struggles with it as well which is why you're getting these mixed messages of "I would have sex with you" and "i am rejecting you"

I hope you don't stop posting here for support

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Default Mar 05, 2017 at 02:21 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by ramonajones View Post
Mine sound benign? Maybe I'm overreacting. He's definitely not grooming me. He has clearly stated he won't be with me. I wish that they WERE just the beginning, but I don't think they are. He does not want me and when I asked him to flat out reject me he did. I think I might just be an ugly loser. Thanks for clarifying!

BYE EVERYBODY!
Your T's behaviour is not benign. I understand why the suggestion would upset you. Trust me when I say it is not benign. In fact, it is highly dangerous.

I have felt the overwhelmingly painful LONGING you write about. It is a need far more painful than can be described in words, and those who have not experienced it cannot begin to understand it. I was obsessed with thoughts of my T that drove me to the brink of insanity. Thankfully, my T handled it the right way - by talking about it openly, honestly, and keeping himself out of the room. He knew that my feelings about him were not really about him (as much as I thought it was, it wasn't - and I suspect it is the same for you). I can't imagine how damaging it would have been for him to admit his feelings for me. It's his job to keep that **** out of the room. Therapy is supposed to help you, not harm you, and by gaslighting you in this way he is harming you.

JunkDNA said it best when she advised you to get away from him. Trust her, she knows.

I suspect he's telling you to speak to others about it because he's trying to make it appear insignificant. By encouraging you to tell others he's building a case to defend himself. See how you're questioning reality because of that gesture? You know the truth, hold tight to it in the face of his inconsistency. He may not have intended to harm you, but he should have known that igniting the flames of your passion for him would do just that.

I think you need to get away from him. Start seeing T2 exclusively. You will feel a strong desire to return to T1 to "make sense of what happened", but it will be counterproductive. This is often what causes people to return to abusive relationships or to reenact past traumas. He will not help you make sense of it, in fact he will only make it worse.

Stop seeing him entirely. It will hurt immensely, but it will get easier in time. Work it through with T2. He recognizes that T1 is not good for you. You are not crazy, you are simply confused - for good reason! Let T2 help you work out what happened with T1. Personally, I think T1 allowed himself into the room as a result of his own issues. He may not have meant to cause you harm, but he did, and his attempt to backtrack will only harm you further.

Please get out. You deserve peace.
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Default Mar 05, 2017 at 03:15 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by unaluna View Post
Aside from your job a few years ago, is this the first time anybody has said no to you? I cant figure out where you are coming from.

Eta - like you say, i want this. He says, that cant happen, but we can look at it. But you dont really look at it, you take that to mean, ask him again and maybe he will change his mind. But that is not what he is saying. Hes saying, lets look at what it MEEEEEEEANS. Which is why im asking, do you usually get your way?
Una, I understand what your saying.
But whatever this guy is doing she clearly isn't understanding. And he must see the distress she is under so it's his responsibility to see he is doing harm, intentionally or not and fix it.
His current methodology sucks.
It's not up to the client to try and translate what he means, when it's clear she doesn't or isn't able to understand.

The guy is an ***, his wording has been clumsy at best and utterly inept at it's worst.I also agree with whoever said that often Drs and the like get moved up to senior positions when their bedside manners stink. Or there have been "issue's".

((RaRo)) if your still around Hon. Just remember that if you found your sexuality once, you CAN do it again without him.
Do you remember me mentioning my drug habbit, not only does all addiction suck, cos it is dependency on an outside force.
But too much of even the best thing can be bad for you.
This guy is an ***.
Talk to your other T explicitly about just how severe your discomfort is. This is way above a little bit of ET. Maybe she can recommend something to ground you or bring you down.

Please take care

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Default Mar 05, 2017 at 03:19 PM
  #38
yes!
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Default Mar 07, 2017 at 08:47 AM
  #39
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Aside from your job a few years ago, is this the first time anybody has said no to you? I cant figure out where you are coming from.

Eta - like you say, i want this. He says, that cant happen, but we can look at it. But you dont really look at it, you take that to mean, ask him again and maybe he will change his mind. But that is not what he is saying. Hes saying, lets look at what it MEEEEEEEANS. Which is why im asking, do you usually get your way?
You've got me all wrong. No, this is not the first time anyone has said no to me. I've been beaten down and rejected for most of my life. No, I do not usually get my way. I keep getting hopeful that I'll get the things I want. I work hard. I try to be open. I get kicked in the face over and over and over again. I find people who don't care if I get run over by a truck, mistake them for trustworthy people, give them my time and money, and then end up devastated when I realize I am nothing to them. That's how things are for me.
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Default Mar 07, 2017 at 10:13 AM
  #40
So if you could get him to say yes to you, what would that MEAN? Follow the fantasy and you can find the issue(s). Thats how i do.

That or drop him and work with t2. T1 and you are not a good therapeutic match. We need someone who can get close but keep their distance. T1 has that backwards somehow. My prev t was like that. Personal closeness, professional distance - bad. Professional closeness, personal distance - good; you feel you can trust them and yourself. Your inner child needs to feel safe, no matter what is happening to the outer woman!

Eta - my prev t was like, if youre not smart enough to make me stop hurting you, then i will keep hurting you and taking your money, why not? I think your t1 is doing this.

Last edited by unaluna; Mar 07, 2017 at 01:06 PM..
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