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Default Jul 05, 2018 at 04:19 PM
  #1
I wonder what exactly is allowed to be discussed here. What kind of questions are allowed? What kind of language is allowed?
It seems about 90% of topics are forbidden so it's almost impossible to have a normal conversation.
Is only new age allowed with their abstract Universe and everyone else is banned? But that is discrimination, too!

Could admins please explain the purpose of this section and tell us which religious concepts are allowed to be discussed and which aren't?
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Default Jul 06, 2018 at 01:55 PM
  #2
I would think it should be for all religions and beliefs and you just don't say something you wouldn't say to your Pastor lol

I agree that does seem limiting. :/
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Default Jul 06, 2018 at 02:07 PM
  #3
Well but we can't even mention of God, as some members get offended by the concept of God. I've been told we can't even mention Buddha (although, to me personally it seems Buddhism is one of the few allowed philosophies in this sections. However there might be people with different perspective).. Also, mentions of any sacred scripture are forbidden as well.
So after recent misunderstanding in the thread about Spiritual gems I was wondering, what CAN be discussed here? Why call a section "spiritual sanctuary" but ban any mention of spiritual concepts? So far it seems the only thing that can be mentioned is some vague New Age atheism and nothing else.
Personally I think this section is a proof that political correctness has gone too far and made any normal discussion impossible.
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Default Jul 06, 2018 at 02:33 PM
  #4
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Originally Posted by seeker33 View Post
Well but we can't even mention of God, as some members get offended by the concept of God. I've been told we can't even mention Buddha (although, to me personally it seems Buddhism is one of the few allowed philosophies in this sections. However there might be people with different perspective).. Also, mentions of any sacred scripture are forbidden as well.
So after recent misunderstanding in the thread about Spiritual gems I was wondering, what CAN be discussed here? Why call a section "spiritual sanctuary" but ban any mention of spiritual concepts? So far it seems the only thing that can be mentioned is some vague New Age atheism and nothing else.
Personally I think this section is a proof that political correctness has gone too far and made any normal discussion impossible.
I totally agree man. I have plenty of non-Christian friends and we have the best, deep conversations. The key is to be secure in your beliefs. If you are secure, there is nothing to get defensive about. We all believe something different, even under the same religions. I am Christian but I know other Christians that would say I am sinning by being around non-Christians.

I don't care about WHAT you believe, I care about WHO you are. Why is that so hard? Life's too short to have petty arguments over things we can't even completely comprehend until we die anyway.

So sad when people ruin something that could have been a great resource for ALL religions and beliefs. :/
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Default Jul 06, 2018 at 05:55 PM
  #5
The stickies at the top reveal the reasoning behind the restrictions - I view the purpose of the forum, as a place to request/express thoughts & empathy, based on the shared experience of being sentient creatures with general desires to find footholds/understanding in environments where much is out of our direct control, or impossible to find answers for with the knowledge we currently possess. Sometimes getting into the specifics of religion can get in the way of that.

I'm not a mod/admin, or making an official comment in any way - just my interpretation.
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Default Jul 06, 2018 at 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by marvin_pa View Post
The stickies at the top reveal the reasoning behind the restrictions - I view the purpose of the forum, as a place to request/express thoughts & empathy, based on the shared experience of being sentient creatures with general desires to find footholds/understanding in environments where much is out of our direct control, or impossible to find answers for with the knowledge we currently possess. Sometimes getting into the specifics of religion can get in the way of that.

I'm not a mod/admin, or making an official comment in any way - just my interpretation.
I guess I can see that, but like I said, there's no need for getting defensive if you're secure in your beliefs and accept that everyone has different views.
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Default Jul 06, 2018 at 08:09 PM
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I guess I can see that, but like I said, there's no need for getting defensive if you're secure in your beliefs and accept that everyone has different views.
I think that it's less a case of being overly defensive (personally, I enjoy & learn from free & open discussion), but I've seen (elsewhere) such discussions get badly out of control. Folks on PC are more likely to be seeking respite/recovery, rather than something that appears to proven divisive in the past (at least outside the more specifically targeted sub-forums). The considerations for participants here are going to be a little different from many other forums.
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Default Jul 07, 2018 at 07:18 AM
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Could admins please explain the purpose of this section and tell us which religious concepts are allowed to be discussed and which aren't?

Spiritualality, and NOT religion, is what this forum is for. It says so in the opening statement. I used to not know the difference between spirituality and religion. Here's what someone told me, "Religion is for people who are afraid of hell; Spirituality is for people who have already been there."

Last edited by zijax; Jul 07, 2018 at 07:58 AM..
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Default Jul 07, 2018 at 12:14 PM
  #9
Well what if someone isn't afraid of hell, has been. In hell in their life and happens to be Christian? He still isn't allowed to mention his faith here, because some members would be offended.
BTW, this is not my case, I do like some aspects of Christianity but I'm not practising. I still think we need clearer and more specific rules here. What if someone is a Deist like philosophers from the Enlightenment, but he still can't even mention God because someone will get offended? Who's right here?
For example I don't like New Age, I sometimes feel anxiety and physically sick when I hear or read some new age thoughts or even "motivational" quotes. But that's MY problem. I won't get offended when someone mentions such things here. It's their right and I respect that. In fact, I will even read about some of those things because even there I can occasionally find something interesting.

If everyone will get offended for basically anything than what's even the point of having a forum?

Or am I totally wrong?
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Default Jul 07, 2018 at 12:21 PM
  #10
I think we need more specific rules so we know what can or can't be mentioned and so we know what exactly is breaking the rules and what isn't. Or can anyone just say "I'm offended" and the other member is supposed to be quiet?
Don't get me wrong. For me personally, this isn't about God. I see this as a question of principle, a question of how the discussion works.
And it isn't just about recent posts, it's in general, based on few occasions both here and elsewhere. To be honest, the direction we're going is quite scary.

There will ALWAYS be someone offended or "triggered" . Recently I've heard a true story about a lady saying "I love humanity" in a university class. The response of one of her classmates? "you love only humanity, not the whole planet?" and it was said in an offended tone. So... If we want to reach a state where no one is ever offended, the entire forum can be closed.
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Default Jul 07, 2018 at 04:00 PM
  #11
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Originally Posted by seeker33 View Post
I wonder what exactly is allowed to be discussed here. What kind of questions are allowed? What kind of language is allowed?
It seems about 90% of topics are forbidden so it's almost impossible to have a normal conversation.
Is only new age allowed with their abstract Universe and everyone else is banned? But that is discrimination, too!

Could admins please explain the purpose of this section and tell us which religious concepts are allowed to be discussed and which aren't?
not an admin but can answer your question....

the purpose of this board is a spin off from the kudos and affirmations board.

back when I first came here the two boards were one. but it got confusing with those offering prayers for each other and asking for prayers and those that just wanted hugs and way to go's, good job, you know that light and easy non prayer thanks, caring and kudos for each other.

the two boards were broken up with all posts asking for and giving prayerful thoughts to each other one one board and the affirmations and hi 5's, hello there I need a hug posts on the other board.

then members asked if this board could be expanded to include religious discussions. for a bit it was allowed but it caused many hurtful threads, debates and fighting. which resulted in this board being scaled back to its intended purpose...

so that members who felt spiritual could ask that other pray for them or offer to pray for them (with out discussing and direct religion)

to offer those who wanted to have a place where they could discuss direct religions members were asked to create a social group where only those that wanted to post about their religions, have religious discussions could invite like minded members to their social group.

Its my understanding that though all site rules apply to social groups on religion and politics but with a little more leeway in that direct discussions can happen in them.

here is where you can find social groups. who knows maybe there is already a religious social group on what ever religion you are looking to discuss.

https://forums.psychcentral.com/groups/
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Default Jul 07, 2018 at 06:26 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by seeker33 View Post
I think we need more specific rules so we know what can or can't be mentioned and so we know what exactly is breaking the rules and what isn't. Or can anyone just say "I'm offended" and the other member is supposed to be quiet?
Don't get me wrong. For me personally, this isn't about God. I see this as a question of principle, a question of how the discussion works.
And it isn't just about recent posts, it's in general, based on few occasions both here and elsewhere. To be honest, the direction we're going is quite scary.

There will ALWAYS be someone offended or "triggered" . Recently I've heard a true story about a lady saying "I love humanity" in a university class. The response of one of her classmates? "you love only humanity, not the whole planet?" and it was said in an offended tone. So... If we want to reach a state where no one is ever offended, the entire forum can be closed.
DocJohn has very clearly outlined what can be discussed in this forum here: "We're going to move forward with a new plan for this forum, for better or worse, because the current state of affairs is simply untenable. We have lost members over hurt and upset caused by this forum and by some members' focus on specific religious doctrine and dogma over the more general spirituality we've always intended here.

Some members have chosen to use this forum as a place to express their point of view, sometimes trying to drown out others'. Other members see this as a soap box to evangelize.

We need to go back to the original mandate of the forum -- that it is about spirituality and not specific religions. Discussion -- even positive discussion -- of specific religions or religious doctrine will not be allowed going forward. It is the specific religious talk that seems to cause the most trouble.

This means no religious talk is allowed -- no specific religious figures, texts, etc. will be permitted here. Please see the note about Social Groups to find where such religious discussion occurs within this community.

DocJohn"

https://forums.psychcentral.com/sanc...alk-forum.html

The purpose of PC is mental health support. The purpose here is not to have religious discussion or debate of any kind. The purpose of PC is for people seeking support for their mental health illnesses to have access to the support they need. Religious debate is superfluous and possibly detrimental to that.

Moderators are unlikely to see or respond to this post. If you have questions or community feedback, you would need to post it in the Community Feedback and Technical Support subforum.

If you are unsure of a specific thread that you want to create, PM an admin/moderator and ask them if it's within the guidelines before posting to avoid its removal or any controversy.

I hope this is helpful information.

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Default Jul 07, 2018 at 11:07 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by seesaw View Post
DocJohn has very clearly outlined what can be discussed in this forum here: "We're going to move forward with a new plan for this forum, for better or worse, because the current state of affairs is simply untenable. We have lost members over hurt and upset caused by this forum and by some members' focus on specific religious doctrine and dogma over the more general spirituality we've always intended here.

For example, Fuzzybears prayer to the Bear Spirit shouldn't be allowed either but just because it's a Spirit from Native American religion, no one will protest against it. If I wrote exactly

Some members have chosen to use this forum as a place to express their point of view, sometimes trying to drown out others'. Other members see this as a soap box to evangelize.

We need to go back to the original mandate of the forum -- that it is about spirituality and not specific religions. Discussion -- even positive discussion -- of specific religions or religious doctrine will not be allowed going forward. It is the specific religious talk that seems to cause the most trouble.

This means no religious talk is allowed -- no specific religious figures, texts, etc. will be permitted here. Please see the note about Social Groups to find where such religious discussion occurs within this community.

DocJohn"

https://forums.psychcentral.com/sanc...alk-forum.html

The purpose of PC is mental health support. The purpose here is not to have religious discussion or debate of any kind. The purpose of PC is for people seeking support for their mental health illnesses to have access to the support they need. Religious debate is superfluous and possibly detrimental to that.

Moderators are unlikely to see or respond to this post. If you have questions or community feedback, you would need to post it in the Community Feedback and Technical Support subforum.

If you are unsure of a specific thread that you want to create, PM an admin/moderator and ask them if it's within the guidelines before posting to avoid its removal or any controversy.

I hope this is helpful information.

Seesaw
Thank you. I won't post anything. I was just upset by what happened in the thread Spiritual Gems but it seems no one is inserested in discussing that topic. I myself will think twice before posting anything in this section in the future :-( I got quite disappointed to be honest. And I repeat it's not because of my own beliefs, which aren't clear at all.

Last edited by seeker33; Jul 07, 2018 at 11:27 PM..
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Default Jul 08, 2018 at 05:49 AM
  #14
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Thank you. I won't post anything. I was just upset by what happened in the thread Spiritual Gems but it seems no one is inserested in discussing that topic. I myself will think twice before posting anything in this section in the future :-( I got quite disappointed to be honest. And I repeat it's not because of my own beliefs, which aren't clear at all.
I wasn't in that thread. I come very rarely in this forum because I don't need help in this area and I also don't have a need or desire to discuss my spirituality. I just see the lead thread, and I noticed this one and was curious by the beginning of the title.

Was your disappointment by the purpose/parameters that limit the scope of the forum? I am sorry you are disappointed. There are many other places online to discuss/debate things about religion and spirituality though. If that's an area of interest for you, then perhaps join one of those? People often express disappointment (sometimes even anger) that DocJohn has limited the scope of what PC discussions are for. However, I have watched as he has continued to develop the specificity of the scope over the years, and I find it has contributed to PC becoming a very safe space for people to share and get support. In the end he has to decide what is conducive to the peace and functioning of the community and to the people here trying to heal.

Sometimes those limitations are frustrating, but PC is not meant to be all things to all people. It has a very specific purpose. I, for one, greatly appreciate that.

I do believe there is still a social group that you can join and post in to get more of the discussion you were interested in.

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Unhappy Jul 08, 2018 at 06:58 AM
  #15
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I wasn't in that thread. I come very rarely in this forum because I don't need help in this area and I also don't have a need or desire to discuss my spirituality. I just see the lead thread, and I noticed this one and was curious by the beginning of the title.

Was your disappointment by the purpose/parameters that limit the scope of the forum? I am sorry you are disappointed. There are many other places online to discuss/debate things about religion and spirituality though. If that's an area of interest for you, then perhaps join one of those? People often express disappointment (sometimes even anger) that DocJohn has limited the scope of what PC discussions are for. However, I have watched as he has continued to develop the specificity of the scope over the years, and I find it has contributed to PC becoming a very safe space for people to share and get support. In the end he has to decide what is conducive to the peace and functioning of the community and to the people here trying to heal.

Sometimes those limitations are frustrating, but PC is not meant to be all things to all people. It has a very specific purpose. I, for one, greatly appreciate that.

I do believe there is still a social group that you can join and post in to get more of the discussion you were interested in.

Seesaw
This time it wasn't my personal issue, it was more a frustration because of what seemed to be a general injustice. This is called "spirituality" but it's a forum where only atheists are allowed to post. So the name of the section is innapropriate and misleading.
There are no other forums I'm interested in joining. I was interested in discussion between various different beliefs where no one is discriminated.
But I know I'll never find one

Last edited by seeker33; Jul 08, 2018 at 07:10 AM..
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Default Jul 08, 2018 at 10:43 AM
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This time it wasn't my personal issue, it was more a frustration because of what seemed to be a general injustice. This is called "spirituality" but it's a forum where only atheists are allowed to post. So the name of the section is innapropriate and misleading.
There are no other forums I'm interested in joining. I was interested in discussion between various different beliefs where no one is discriminated.
But I know I'll never find one
There is nothing here suggesting that only atheists can post. But it is a forum for spirituality, not religion. That is a marked difference and lends itself to specific parameters in participation. There is no discrimination going on here. Atheists cannot talk about religion and neither can anyone else. But everyone can discuss spirituality. I do not see one example of someone not being able to discuss their spirituality. Spirituality /=/ religion. This may help you:

spir·it·u·al·i·ty
ˌspiriCHo͞oˈalədē/Submit
noun
the quality of being concerned with the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.

re·li·gion
rəˈlijən/Submit
noun
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
"ideas about the relationship between science and religion"
synonyms: faith, belief, worship, creed; More
a particular system of faith and worship.
plural noun: religions
"the world's great religions"
a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.
"consumerism is the new religion"

Can you see the significant difference in the two? These rules that you are complaining of have been in place since 2008. So this is not new. No discrimination is occurring by saying discussions of religion are not allowed here. Atheists are not discussing religion by discussing their spirituality.

If I have no religion, then the fact that a no-religion-talk rule has no impact on me does not mean you are being discriminated against because you do have a religion.

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Default Jul 08, 2018 at 11:24 AM
  #17
i believe that part of the problem is saying things like "only atheists are allowed to post", when no atheism has been expressed; and "i don't like new-age", i didn't see any of that, either.... what i saw was a nice thread on sage advice to personal, spiritual growth: guidelines for self-improvement. until someone started posting denigrating and blatantly religious statements, and when i pointed that out, quite gently i thought, i was slammed with more of the same.

that is why i am not posting in there anymore. i don't care for religion, of any flavor. if you can suggest some way that i can improve my ability to tolerate such offenses, i would call that spiritual advice.

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Default Jul 08, 2018 at 12:57 PM
  #18
I reread the entire thread again and I haven't found a single post where atheists are denigrated. Possibly there was one quote about the enemy's plan for your life. That may have been slightly on edge.
The quote about one lost sheep didn't sound offensive to me at all. I absolutely didn't think about atheists when reading it and I don't think it was meant to threaten or denigrate anyone here. That's why I absolutely didn't see a reason for offence. And I am very sensitive to threats and judgement. However in the whole thread I didn't see anything offensive. I truly wonder which quote are you talking about.

What is true and I agree with you Gus is that AFTER your critical remark, a couple more posts came which may sound like a provocation.

I needed a place to talk about spirituality because it's a huge part of my trauma but I have absolutely no one and no where to talk about it. Neither in real life nor online, not even my therapist understands me. But that has little to do with this forum, that's just my venting . I think I was so triggered by this misunderstanding because it just reassured me that all forums are the same and I will never find help with my own problems.

Last edited by seeker33; Jul 08, 2018 at 01:13 PM..
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Default Jul 08, 2018 at 01:53 PM
  #19
I'm so upset about the topic of spirituality that I want to SH and I tore some paper and punched the couch in order to release the urge.... Sorry everyone, I know no one can help me.
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Default Jul 08, 2018 at 02:03 PM
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I reread the entire thread again and I haven't found a single post where atheists are denigrated. Possibly there was one quote about the enemy's plan for your life. That may have been slightly on edge.
The quote about one lost sheep didn't sound offensive to me at all. I absolutely didn't think about atheists when reading it and I don't think it was meant to threaten or denigrate anyone here. That's why I absolutely didn't see a reason for offence. And I am very sensitive to threats and judgement. However in the whole thread I didn't see anything offensive. I truly wonder which quote are you talking about.

What is true and I agree with you Gus is that AFTER your critical remark, a couple more posts came which may sound like a provocation.

I needed a place to talk about spirituality because it's a huge part of my trauma but I have absolutely no one and no where to talk about it. Neither in real life nor online, not even my therapist understands me. But that has little to do with this forum, that's just my venting . I think I was so triggered by this misunderstanding because it just reassured me that all forums are the same and I will never find help with my own problems.
There were 2 quotes, neither of which you mentioned that were putting down atheism or evangelizing. One specifically said a little bit of philosophy gets you atheism while a lot of philosophy gets you god. That very clearly denigrated atheists, and I believe that is what Gus was referring to. I also found it offensive.

There was another. I'd have to re-read, that was very evangelistic that bothered me, but not to the degree of that one. I'd have to look at the whole thread again to find it. Moderators may have removed the offending quote. I do not know.

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My Support Forums is the online community that was originally begun as the Psych Central Forums in 2001. It now runs as an independent self-help support group community for mental health, personality, and psychological issues and is overseen by a group of dedicated, caring volunteers from around the world.

 

Helplines and Lifelines

The material on this site is for informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment provided by a qualified health care provider.

Always consult your doctor or mental health professional before trying anything you read here.