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Old 02-05-2017, 08:07 AM   #1
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Default Interview with psychologist Lloyd Ross on treating schizophrophrenia

New Jersey-based psychologist Lloyd Ross and I just put together this interview:

https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/02...es-lloyd-ross/

Lloyd has a particular approach which he described in this way:

Quote: "Over the last 40 years I saw approximately 150 people who could be considered schizophrenic because they were having delusions and hallucinations, i.e. they had a serious break with reality. Some of these therapies were very brief because they didn’t accept that I don’t use medication, which I always explained in the first session...

Now out of these 150 people whom I saw over 40 years, probably about 100 of them accepted my non-medication approach. The large majority of these stayed in treatment for at least one year, and many stayed for between three to five years or more...Most of the people I consulted with chose to try working without medication, which was often because they or their parents didn’t like what the medications were doing to them...

With somebody who was experiencing symptoms that the profession labels schizophrenic, such as having hallucinations, delusions, or being very paranoid, I would usually see them 3-5 times per week over a period of at least two years. Many of these schizophrenic clients were young people undergoing life transitions — these life transitions, like leaving home and going to college, often cause a stress that brings up earlier trauma and can cause a break with reality in a vulnerable person. But I also saw some older clients whose life stresses had precipitated a break. I worked intensively with them because psychotic conditions are very serious and require intensive help. "

We also discussed his success with the group that stayed over the longer term:

Quote: "The large majority of them get much better. I’d say 85-90% of the schizophrenic men and women who stayed in therapy at least two years got well to the point of being able to go to school, to work, to function in a meaningful, personally satisfying way, and to be involved in relationships. Probably a majority of these got married and had families. Sometimes their functioning was a bit awkward but they still functioned.

For example, a young man who had been psychotic might date or marry the quiet, shy girl rather than the girl who was the life of the party. But they could still have a meaningful intimate relationship and become good parents.
So yes, for most people diagnosed with schizophrenia, if they get effective help they get better. They go out into the world and function, and most often they don’t become severely psychotic again.

In the early part of the work, what happens a lot of times is that as a psychotic person starts to function better, the voices reoccur; but they’re not as disturbing anymore, they’re okay. Later on, if the person more fully works through their issues, these symptoms can completely or mostly go away. Or they still occur but don’t bother the person much at all, because they’re much stronger emotionally."

And then we discussed many other issues like the biogenetic model, how to understand hallucinations as meaningful phenomena, some trauma in Lloyd's own history, Lloyd's views on NAMI and the business of psychiatry (may be controversial). etc. I hope you will check it out.
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Old 02-05-2017, 09:04 AM   #2
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Default Re: Interview with psychologist Lloyd Ross on treating schizophrophrenia

I like this
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Old 02-05-2017, 11:18 AM   #3
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Default Re: Interview with psychologist Lloyd Ross on treating schizophrophrenia

This article confirms my strong bias against psychologists and their mostly trivial
(and expensive) talks.
Sure, 90% of success rate of his magic psychotherapy.
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Old 02-05-2017, 12:03 PM   #4
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Default Re: Interview with psychologist Lloyd Ross on treating schizophrophrenia

In a perfect world, which this one is not.
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Old 02-05-2017, 01:00 PM   #5
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Default Re: Interview with psychologist Lloyd Ross on treating schizophrophrenia

Aw man. I thought this was real too. I had so much hope. Forreal i did.
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Old 02-05-2017, 02:20 PM   #6
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Default Re: Interview with psychologist Lloyd Ross on treating schizophrophrenia

I wish I could recover without meds but I need them and will until I pass away. It's often a biological reason to schizophrenia because its passed down through your genes its been proven. Its not hard to believe that its the chemicals in the brain that are out of whack.
Therapy is often needed to come to terms with bizarre thoughts, or intrusive thoughts too. I realise this also .
Unfortunately this doctor is misguided
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Old 02-05-2017, 06:53 PM   #7
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Default Re: Interview with psychologist Lloyd Ross on treating schizophrophrenia

Oh ye of little faith :-)

What makes you think that intensive therapy cannot work for many people? Perhaps people really can become quite well, be fully free of schizophrenia, have normal lives with fulfilling careers and loving relationships.

One thing you are correct about - some family support, money, and safe living situation is needed. The lack of these things can ruin an effort to help someone.

This particular interview with Lloyd is of course anecdotal. But stronger evidence is provided by meta-analyses such as this:

TABLE OF CONTENTS

In which over 2600 psychotic people from 37 studies were greatly helped by therapy.

There are also larger scale studies in Gaetano Benedetti (Psychotherapy of Schizophrenia), Roberta Siani (in Martindale's Psychosis - Psychological Approaches and their Effectiveness), and the CBT therapists in Britain such as Morrison and Bateman. Many people are unaware of this work.

Lastly, if you doubt the type of accounts Lloyd shares, let me recommend the books Rethinking Madness (Williams), Treating the Untreatable (Steinman), Weathering the Storms (Steinman), The Infantile Psychotic Self (Volkan), and the Regressed Patient (Boyer). They are all on Amazon used. In these books are about 50 further cases detailing the process by which schizophrenic people can fully recover or significantly improve.
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Old 02-05-2017, 06:56 PM   #8
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Default Re: Interview with psychologist Lloyd Ross on treating schizophrophrenia

Van Gore, what makes you think schizophrenia is primarily biological? I know of no evidence supporting this idea.

What I have read in John Read's work (Models of Madness), in Jonathan Leo's writing on recent studies of schizophrenia and genes, and in Jay Joseph's books (such as The Gene Illusion) show pretty convincingly that genes are not causal to psychosis in any meaningful sense of the word. They simply convey a varying vulnerability to stress under different circumstances. And, genes change throughout one's life including (obviously) after birth, via epigenetic interactions with the environment. So, things are hardly set or fixed in the way the false biological model of schizophrenia teaches. Things are much more hopeful than you think.

If you want to be more hopeful, you might study exactly how Jay Joseph picked apart the notion that twin studies prove a primarily biogenetic basis for schizophrenia. That was part of what helped me dismiss this myth and get to where I am now, where I work full-time, have no remaining symptoms, have good relationships, and am quite well most of the time.
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Old 02-06-2017, 04:22 AM   #9
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Default Re: Interview with psychologist Lloyd Ross on treating schizophrophrenia

Even these inconclusive studies are distant to the raves of Lloyd, I still don't understand how can they persuade these people without insight of their illness to join their therapy.

About the biological causes of schizophrenia, you already mentioned the confirmed biological vulnerability and I would like to add that the effectiveness of antipsychotic medications is a proof that many symptoms occur because of some chemical imbalances in our brain.
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Old 02-06-2017, 09:25 AM   #10
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Default Re: Interview with psychologist Lloyd Ross on treating schizophrophrenia

Eeeyore, I mentioned a varying level of vulnerability to stress, not a vulnerability toward schizophrenia as a specific disease. We all have different levels of resilience.

The effectiveness of tranquilizing agents in making people feel less - which often doesn't go very far in the long run in restoring psychotic people to a meaningful, fulfilling life - is in no way a proof that distress occurs because of chemical imbalances. No chemical imbalance causing the symptoms of supposed schizophrenia has ever been discovered. Even leading psychiatrists like Ronald Pies have admitted the chemical imbalance idea was a myth. I'm not sure why you would think otherwise.

Lloyd doesn't persuade anyone to join therapy or not. People who wanted to work with him did so.

You didn't mention what you felt was inconclusive about the studies I cited - I have to wonder if you read them...
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