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Default Mar 15, 2018 at 09:36 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Gr3tta_0 View Post
I often get something a little different each time i take it, but logic definitely rules my personality.
I will not follow a rule, just because it's a rule, if it does not make logical sense. People have often viewed this as my being defiant, insubordinant, argumentative, or grandiose.
I am not comfortable experimenting. And that's pretty much all psychiatry/mental health is. After a particularly enlightening argument about a medical rx i take, and my pdoc's entire opinion changed based on a change in fda approval (the medicine was the same, i was the same, this is entirely illogical) i realized the whole situation was not for me.
I've been better ever since!
lol I'm glad that you're doing better without psychiatry. It often doesn't make much sense and is mostly guesswork, but most pdocs have ego issues that make them deny this. I only get on with my pdoc because he agrees that it's mostly guesswork and he can take me questioning or challenging him. But other pdocs have really hated this, and it got tied into my BPD misdiagnosis - apparently, my medical knowledge was how I had been able to 'fake depression' for so many years! And my disagreeing with a treatment plan because it went against NICE guidelines and all current research findings was, like with you, grandiose, argumentative, being difficult etc, rather than the fact that the woman was clearly incompetent!! :roll eyes:

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Default Mar 15, 2018 at 09:40 PM
  #22
Also, I wanted to clarify that this isn't a thread specifically about MBTI or any other personality models. And I don't want it to be some esoteric thing that people feel that they aren't able to contribute to. I'm interested in hearing personal experiences people have had in terms of their difficulties and/or dealings with MH professionals that they think might be related to their personality. So please feel free to join in everyone

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Default Mar 21, 2018 at 10:04 AM
  #23
Im an INFP. Ive studied personality theory pretty... thoroughly.

If anyone wants to take THIS test

https://enneagramtest.net

Enneagram is imo even more interesting than MBTI (though again, both are interests of mine) because enneagram is about core fears- what deep down motivates you.

Id be interested in what people get
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Default Mar 21, 2018 at 12:21 PM
  #24
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Im an INFP. Ive studied personality theory pretty... thoroughly.

If anyone wants to take THIS test

https://enneagramtest.net

Enneagram is imo even more interesting than MBTI (though again, both are interests of mine) because enneagram is about core fears- what deep down motivates you.

Id be interested in what people get
Hi

my results were 4( the individualist), 9(the peacemaker) , and 6 ( the loyalist)

i only read the first one

it would not let me read the others
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Default Mar 21, 2018 at 03:50 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Under*Over View Post
Im an INFP. Ive studied personality theory pretty... thoroughly.

If anyone wants to take THIS test

https://enneagramtest.net

Enneagram is imo even more interesting than MBTI (though again, both are interests of mine) because enneagram is about core fears- what deep down motivates you.

Id be interested in what people get
Mine.....Effects of personality traitsEffects of personality traits

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Default Mar 21, 2018 at 05:37 PM
  #26
Effects of personality traits

This is what I got...as I mentioned optimism before I think this test might be more relevant than Meyers Briggs

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Default Mar 21, 2018 at 08:30 PM
  #27
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Mine.....Effects of personality traitsEffects of personality traits
This isnt a really surprising result. 4s core fear pretty much is feeling... diffferent and misunderstood. They feel cut off from the rest of humanity in a way, like they will not be accepted for who they truly are. In order to fight this fear of not being accepted they tend to try to differentiate themselves from othersz more in a ‘if they are not going to accept me- then I will best them to the punch’

Its one of probably the most creative and intellectual of the types. Also, easily also tends to be one of the most self aware- if not THE MOST self aware. Tend to really understand who they are.

And lol getting into tri-types.

469 is the seeker. Which also, is far from a surprising result. (And also my tritype as well- though I am a 9 core (aka the type that runs away from their problems and denies they exist until- oh crap! Things are REALLY bad!))

Anyways. The seeker type.

“Enneagram Tritype 469 - The Seeker
469 Seeker Archetype

If you are 469, you are intuitive, inquisitive and accepting. You want to be original, certain and peaceful. You are a very sensitive and can experience intense feelings of self-doubt and uncertainty. As a result you need multiple sources of confirmation. You want to be individualistic but can fear being separate from others.

Your life mission is to raise the questions pertaining to the mysteries of life and share your findings with others. A true seeker, you are happiest when you feel you can answer the question of who you are.

You can be so focused on your feelings, insecurities and doubts that you can feel paralyzed by the fear of making the wrong decision and of being misled or duped.

The 469 is a seeker with a lot of self doubt. There is always more to learn when you are this tritype but the desire is to develop a philosophy. the 6 and 4 have the most self doubt along with the 9. The 4 doubts their feelings, the 6 their thoughts. 6s want reassurance, 4s want praise to offset their natural tendency to be shame sensitive. The 4 leading is more concerned with the Who am I question and hopes to ‘someday’ have that answered through constant introspection and referencing their own feelings. I can only speak from my own lens and say that the 6 leading is less identity focused. Who Am I doesn’t enter the picture like the 4, and less reliance on needing to set themselves apart to resolve the philosophical dilemma.”

4s mbti type most frequently as INFJs and INFPs. Followed closely by ISFPs and then probably ENFPs. Though any mbti type can *theoretically* be attached to any enneagram type.

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Default Mar 21, 2018 at 08:44 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic View Post
Effects of personality traits

This is what I got...as I mentioned optimism before I think this test might be more relevant than Meyers Briggs
MBTI tends to be... something that you are born with. Its hard to explain, but enneagram tends to be believed to be connected to inner woundedness (aka, everyones parents/environment mess them up in SOME way- and so the ego well... reacts to it)

Im a 9. Titled the “peacemaker” and a positive outlook type. 7 is also a positive outlook type. (And 2 as well... but not talking about 2)

Anyways. Positive outlook types- its not as glamorous as it sounds. It means basically- out of a desperation for the world around you to remain positive- you force it to be in some ways. (Thats more 2- direct force is- 9 and 7 tend to be less direct)

9 runs from their problems. Oh that guy is being nasty to me- “not a big deal, its all fine”. Oh that guy is threatening to hurt me “well Im sure hes just kidding.” Oh that guy is lighting my house on fire... huh... maybe I should have done something about that.

9s number one fear is conflict. So in order to avoid it- they “pretend” everything is fine and escape into a place of “manufactured calm”.

7. 7 escapes elsewhere. 7 is more.

Oh that guy is being nasty to me. “Hey, hey, buddy- do you want to go do something fun with me? Want to do this this this or this thing! Lets leave this place of misery and escape somewhere better! There HAS to be somewhere better!”

7s- which can be wrong and is just a stereotype- are generally known as the “fun guy” of the enneagram. Their core fear is of... missing out. Of really- just being in pain. That there are so many things out there that they cant do it all. ThT there is always something better around the corner- and that if they dont look for it, then they risk being trapped and stuck in their own pain.

Anyways. Hah. This type also tends to be extroverted and most commonly found around people who mbti type as ESTP, ESFP, ENTP, and ENFP.

Though can be found around EXXJ types and IXFJ types.
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Default Mar 22, 2018 at 08:42 AM
  #29
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MBTI tends to be... something that you are born with. Its hard to explain, but enneagram tends to be believed to be connected to inner woundedness (aka, everyones parents/environment mess them up in SOME way- and so the ego well... reacts to it)

Im a 9. Titled the “peacemaker” and a positive outlook type. 7 is also a positive outlook type. (And 2 as well... but not talking about 2)

Anyways. Positive outlook types- its not as glamorous as it sounds. It means basically- out of a desperation for the world around you to remain positive- you force it to be in some ways. (Thats more 2- direct force is- 9 and 7 tend to be less direct)

9 runs from their problems. Oh that guy is being nasty to me- “not a big deal, its all fine”. Oh that guy is threatening to hurt me “well Im sure hes just kidding.” Oh that guy is lighting my house on fire... huh... maybe I should have done something about that.

9s number one fear is conflict. So in order to avoid it- they “pretend” everything is fine and escape into a place of “manufactured calm”.

7. 7 escapes elsewhere. 7 is more.

Oh that guy is being nasty to me. “Hey, hey, buddy- do you want to go do something fun with me? Want to do this this this or this thing! Lets leave this place of misery and escape somewhere better! There HAS to be somewhere better!”

7s- which can be wrong and is just a stereotype- are generally known as the “fun guy” of the enneagram. Their core fear is of... missing out. Of really- just being in pain. That there are so many things out there that they cant do it all. ThT there is always something better around the corner- and that if they dont look for it, then they risk being trapped and stuck in their own pain.

Anyways. Hah. This type also tends to be extroverted and most commonly found around people who mbti type as ESTP, ESFP, ENTP, and ENFP.

Though can be found around EXXJ types and IXFJ types.

Intersting....I don’t think of myself as extroverted but I’m getting closer to that....the people in my life take priority over other activities like reading. The bf says I’m not introverted and that he would have gone running if I were that quiet.i wonder if my social anxiety is all that keeps me from being truly extroverted......

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Default Mar 22, 2018 at 09:32 AM
  #30
I'm an ENTJ and my Enneagram type is type 8, which will surprise literally none of the folks who have been here for awhile and remember me when I was active here.

My personality does influence things, I think it's why I'm so hostile when my psychosis goes in a paranoid direction. I have more thoughts but I can't really catch them right now and I want to read more of this thread too.
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Default Mar 22, 2018 at 01:00 PM
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I'm an ENTJ and my Enneagram type is type 8, which will surprise literally none of the folks who have been here for awhile and remember me when I was active here.

My personality does influence things, I think it's why I'm so hostile when my psychosis goes in a paranoid direction. I have more thoughts but I can't really catch them right now and I want to read more of this thread too.
Yep. 8 is probably the most common type for ENTJs (and ESTPs and ESTJs) and to a lesser extent INTJs (though INTJs most commonly tend to be 5s). That and 3 are common for ENTJ

8 and ENTJ pretty much go together like peas and carrots. If you were like a 4 and an ENTJ- then... well that would just be odd/uncommon.

8s arent always aggressive- they can get a bad rep for that- but they usually ARE outspoken. 8s can actually be really protective of the people that they care about- in a “I will defend those who cannot or will not defend themselves”. They arent always like that, but sometimes that enneagram gets a reputation for being a bully/being pushy- when really, there is more to it than that.

They are usually very dynamic people who have a strong will and are not afraid to seek out what they want.
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Default Mar 22, 2018 at 01:05 PM
  #32
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Yep. 8 is probably the most common type for ENTJs (and ESTPs and ESTJs) and to a lesser extent INTJs (though INTJs most commonly tend to be 5s). That and 3 are common for ENTJ

8 and ENTJ pretty much go together like peas and carrots. If you were like a 4 and an ENTJ- then... well that would just be odd/uncommon.

8s arent always aggressive- they can get a bad rep for that- but they usually ARE outspoken. 8s can actually be really protective of the people that they care about- in a “I will defend those who cannot or will not defend themselves”. They arent always like that, but sometimes that enneagram gets a reputation for being a bully/being pushy- when really, there is more to it than that.

They are usually very dynamic people who have a strong will and are not afraid to seek out what they want.
Yeah, that describes me fairly well.

I'm very outspoken in general and when I'm psychotic is when you see the darker things you described come out, the aggression, being ruthless and unforgiving, among others.
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Default Mar 22, 2018 at 01:18 PM
  #33
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Yeah, that describes me fairly well.

I'm very outspoken in general and when I'm psychotic is when you see the darker things you described come out, the aggression, being ruthless and unforgiving, among others.
Mhm. 8s definitely tend to have a temper- anger being something they are familiar with. Also, they tend to come across as VERY confident- even when they might not necessarily feel that way internally (though often-times they ARE as confident as they come off as being).

But healthy 8s really do have the potential to be powerful leaders- as they tend not to shy away from external problems. (Internal ones might frustrate them- but if someone does something to them irl, you can BET they are going to say something/do something/stick up for themselves)

************

One of the more interesting things is that- health levels are something enneagram accounts for. Its what makes me appreciate it more than MBTI- because it doesnt ignore things like... the effects of maturity, mental health, ect on how a person comes off. You are always the same enneagram BUT- you might deal with things differently depending on how healthy you are.

Heres 8s different levels- top is healthiest, bottom least. Most people DO move along the health levels just... through life. Its rare for someone to constantly be at one level.

Healthy Levels

Level 1 (At Their Best): Become self-restrained and magnanimous, merciful and forbearing, mastering self through their self-surrender to a higher authority. Courageous, willing to put self in serious jeopardy to achieve their vision and have a lasting influence. May achieve true heroism and historical greatness.

Level 2: Self-assertive, self-confident, and strong: have learned to stand up for what they need and want. A resourceful, "can do" attitude and passionate inner drive.

Level 3: Decisive, authoritative, and commanding: the natural leader others look up to. Take initiative, make things happen: champion people, provider, protective, and honorable, carrying others with their strength.

Average Levels

Level 4: Self-sufficiency, financial independence, and having enough resources are important concerns: become enterprising, pragmatic, "rugged individualists," wheeler-dealers. Risk-taking, hardworking, denying own emotional needs.

Level 5: Begin to dominate their environment, including others: want to feel that others are behind them, supporting their efforts. Swaggering, boastful, forceful, and expansive: the "boss" whose word is law. Proud, egocentric, want to impose their will and vision on everything, not seeing others as equals or treating them with respect.

Level 6: Become highly combative and intimidating to get their way: confrontational, belligerent, creating adversarial relationships. Everything a test of wills, and they will not back down. Use threats and reprisals to get obedience from others, to keep others off balance and insecure. However, unjust treatment makes others fear and resent them, possibly also band together against them.

Unhealthy Levels

Level 7: Defying any attempt to control them, become completely ruthless, dictatorial, "might makes right." The criminal and outlaw, renegade, and con-artist. Hard-hearted, immoral and potentially violent.

Level 8: Develop delusional ideas about their power, invincibility, and ability to prevail: megalomania, feeling omnipotent, invulnerable. Recklessly over-extending self.

Level 9: If they get in danger, they may brutally destroy everything that has not conformed to their will rather than surrender to anyone else. Vengeful, barbaric, murderous. Sociopathic tendencies. Generally corresponds to the Antisocial Personality Disorder.
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Default Mar 22, 2018 at 01:21 PM
  #34
Of course, this stuff is all theory. I dabble in it for fun, because I find it interesting. But yeah, its all just theory.

More reliable than like... astronomy... less than “real mental health testing”

But interesting none the less
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Default Mar 22, 2018 at 01:25 PM
  #35
Oh cool @Under*Over I’m 469 as well but 4(w3) is my main type. It is a really frustrating combination to be... all the uncertainty... I thought I was a feeler for the longest time and only recently it occurred to me that I am probably actually ENTP. Just with this tritype (plus sx-first) I come across as such a feeler.
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Default Mar 22, 2018 at 01:30 PM
  #36
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Mhm. 8s definitely tend to have a temper- anger being something they are familiar with. Also, they tend to come across as VERY confident- even when they might not necessarily feel that way internally (though often-times they ARE as confident as they come off as being).

But healthy 8s really do have the potential to be powerful leaders- as they tend not to shy away from external problems. (Internal ones might frustrate them- but if someone does something to them irl, you can BET they are going to say something/do something/stick up for themselves)

************

One of the more interesting things is that- health levels are something enneagram accounts for. Its what makes me appreciate it more than MBTI- because it doesnt ignore things like... the effects of maturity, mental health, ect on how a person comes off. You are always the same enneagram BUT- you might deal with things differently depending on how healthy you are.

Heres 8s different levels- top is healthiest, bottom least. Most people DO move along the health levels just... through life. Its rare for someone to constantly be at one level.

Healthy Levels

Level 1 (At Their Best): Become self-restrained and magnanimous, merciful and forbearing, mastering self through their self-surrender to a higher authority. Courageous, willing to put self in serious jeopardy to achieve their vision and have a lasting influence. May achieve true heroism and historical greatness.

Level 2: Self-assertive, self-confident, and strong: have learned to stand up for what they need and want. A resourceful, "can do" attitude and passionate inner drive.

Level 3: Decisive, authoritative, and commanding: the natural leader others look up to. Take initiative, make things happen: champion people, provider, protective, and honorable, carrying others with their strength.

Average Levels

Level 4: Self-sufficiency, financial independence, and having enough resources are important concerns: become enterprising, pragmatic, "rugged individualists," wheeler-dealers. Risk-taking, hardworking, denying own emotional needs.

Level 5: Begin to dominate their environment, including others: want to feel that others are behind them, supporting their efforts. Swaggering, boastful, forceful, and expansive: the "boss" whose word is law. Proud, egocentric, want to impose their will and vision on everything, not seeing others as equals or treating them with respect.

Level 6: Become highly combative and intimidating to get their way: confrontational, belligerent, creating adversarial relationships. Everything a test of wills, and they will not back down. Use threats and reprisals to get obedience from others, to keep others off balance and insecure. However, unjust treatment makes others fear and resent them, possibly also band together against them.

Unhealthy Levels

Level 7: Defying any attempt to control them, become completely ruthless, dictatorial, "might makes right." The criminal and outlaw, renegade, and con-artist. Hard-hearted, immoral and potentially violent.

Level 8: Develop delusional ideas about their power, invincibility, and ability to prevail: megalomania, feeling omnipotent, invulnerable. Recklessly over-extending self.

Level 9: If they get in danger, they may brutally destroy everything that has not conformed to their will rather than surrender to anyone else. Vengeful, barbaric, murderous. Sociopathic tendencies. Generally corresponds to the Antisocial Personality Disorder.
People are pretty wary of my temper and I understand why, I can be intimidating even when I'm not angry.

I've never lacked confidence, at least not on the outside. Even if I have internal doubts, it doesn't show externally and I plow through whatever it is anyways. It's very difficult to actually stop me once my mind is set on any given goal.

When my schizophrenia isn't so active I'm usually at levels 2, 3, and 4. When I'm actively psychotic though I can easily sink down to those last three levels and I have in the past.
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Default Mar 22, 2018 at 01:36 PM
  #37
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Oh cool @Under*Over I’m 469 as well but 4 is my main type. It is a really frustrating combination to be... all the uncertainty... I thought I was a feeler for the longest time and only recently it occurred to me that I am probably actually ENTP. Just with this tritype I come across as such a feeler.
Mmmhm I have a good friend who is an ENTP 9. Makes him seem much more like a feeler- an ENTP 4, would seem even more so.

The cognitive functions of ENTP are Ne, Ti, Fe, and Si- and preference for usage is generally in that order.

Ne equals “extroverted intuition”- meaning that you see and make connections with it in the external wold.

Ne is often credited as being the ‘most creative function’ and intuition in general is often associated to 4. And since Fe is “extroverted feeling” it and Ne for you tend to be the faces that you show to the world- what people see when they look at you (vs Ti and Si (introverted thinking and introverted sensing) which tend to be how you see and process the world internally))

ENTP 4 is mid rare probably. 4 tends to be associated with introverts and feeling types. But its possible. A lot less rare than an ENTJ 4 who has feeling as their VERY LAST function.

But yeah. Its a cool type to be really. 964/469 can be a type probe to self doubt and “analysis paralysis” but... it can also be a type full of self understanding and ‘self truths’ all that kind of stuff too.

Anyways. I posted 8s health levels so here are 4s.

****

Type Four—Levels of Development

Healthy Levels

Level 1 (At Their Best): Profoundly creative, expressing the personal and the universal, possibly in a work of art. Inspired, self-renewing and regenerating: able to transform all their experiences into something valuable: self-creative.

Level 2: Self-aware, introspective, on the "search for self," aware of feelings and inner impulses. Sensitive and intuitive both to self and others: gentle, tactful, compassionate.

Level 3: Highly personal, individualistic, "true to self." Self-revealing, emotionally honest, humane. Ironic view of self and life: can be serious and funny, vulnerable and emotionally strong.

Average Levels

Level 4: Take an artistic, romantic orientation to life, creating a beautiful, aesthetic environment to cultivate and prolong personal feelings. Heighten reality through fantasy, passionate feelings, and the imagination.

Level 5: To stay in touch with feelings, they interiorize everything, taking everything personally, but become self-absorbed and introverted, moody and hypersensitive, shy and self-conscious, unable to be spontaneous or to "get out of themselves." Stay withdrawn to protect their self-image and to buy time to sort out feelings.

Level 6: Gradually think that they are different from others, and feel that they are exempt from living as everyone else does. They become melancholy dreamers, disdainful, decadent, and sensual, living in a fantasy world. Self-pity and envy of others leads to self-indulgence, and to becoming increasingly impractical, unproductive, effete, and precious.

Unhealthy Levels

Level 7: When dreams fail, become self-inhibiting and angry at self, depressed and alienated from self and others, blocked and emotionally paralyzed. Ashamed of self, fatigued and unable to function.

Level 8: Tormented by delusional self-contempt, self-reproaches, self-hatred, and morbid thoughts: everything is a source of torment. Blaming others, they drive away anyone who tries to help them.

Level 9: Despairing, feel hopeless and become self-destructive, possibly abusing alcohol or drugs to escape. In the extreme: emotional breakdown or suicide is likely. Generally corresponds to the Avoidant, Depressive, and Narcissistic personality disorders.
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Default Mar 22, 2018 at 11:49 PM
  #38
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Intersting....I don’t think of myself as extroverted but I’m getting closer to that....the people in my life take priority over other activities like reading. The bf says I’m not introverted and that he would have gone running if I were that quiet.i wonder if my social anxiety is all that keeps me from being truly extroverted......
Introversion and extraversion aren't about how sociable you are, though many people think it is. It's about how you acquire your energy and what drains you. Extraverts acquire energy from being around people and in new environments, and lose energy spending time alone. Introverts are the other way around.

It's to do with baseline levels of cortical arousal - I forget the brain region - extraverts have much lower baseline arousal levels than introverts so they have to seek out stimulation in the form of people and new things. Introverts have much higher baseline arousal levels and so lots of people and busy environments gets exhausting after a while.

There are socially 'quiet' extraverts and 'sociable' introverts, so it really doesn't predict how you will behave when socialising, just how frequently you want to socialise and how you feel afterwards. One of my brothers is a classic extravert, but my other brother is a 'quiet' extravert. He is very much an extravert, but he's not the life and soul of the party like my other brother is.

I often don't come across as introverted as I am because I'm not often the quiet mouse hiding in the corner of the kitchen at a party. But socialising, no matter how much I've enjoyed it, exhausts me, so I am very much an introvert. I also think that I've become much more introverted as I've gotten older/since everything changed 11 years ago.

*Willow*
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Atypical_Disaster, Sometimes psychotic
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Default Mar 22, 2018 at 11:59 PM
  #39
Thanks Under*Over for posting about Enneagram. I've come across it before, but it really doesn't resonate with me in the way that my MBTI type does. I just don't relate to the results I get. I can't remember what I got last time I did it, but I did the test you posted and really struggled with some of the statements because neither of them fit, so that will affect the results.

I'm interested though as to what effect therapy would have on your enneagram type? If you worked through your core fears, could you theoretically eliminate them and change number?? I looked at schemas a few years ago, and they have definitely changed over the years due to work I have done on myself.

You said that MBTI type doesn't take into account how healthy you are, but I've been reading about how you can mature by strengthening your inferior functions. I believe that I have definitely been doing that, inadvertently, over the years and so am more 'balanced' now than I was. Although, obviously, there's still work to be done!

*Willow*
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Atypical_Disaster, Under*Over
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Default Mar 23, 2018 at 12:04 AM
  #40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atypical_Disaster View Post
I'm an ENTJ and my Enneagram type is type 8, which will surprise literally none of the folks who have been here for awhile and remember me when I was active here.

My personality does influence things, I think it's why I'm so hostile when my psychosis goes in a paranoid direction. I have more thoughts but I can't really catch them right now and I want to read more of this thread too.
Off topic, but it's really good to see you, Atypical!

*Willow*
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Atypical_Disaster, Under*Over
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