If a tree falls... - Forums at Psych Central



advertisement
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-02-2018, 05:25 PM #1
Anonymous59893
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Anonymous59893
Guest
Anonymous59893 has no updates. Edit
 
Posts: n/a

Default If a tree falls...

If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it fall, does it make a sound?

I've been thinking a lot about trees of late; one of my many thought spirals. So people have wondered if it makes a sound, but what I’m wondering is does it even fall!????? If no one sees it fall, did it actually fall? Maybe it was always lying there? Maybe it just grew that way?

Maybe it just thinks it fell, but really it’s still standing there the same as always?

What about if it falls, and even makes a sound whilst falling, but the people walking past are too absorbed in Instagramming the world about their latest bowel movement to realise?!

Maybe it falls and then gets back up, and nobody even notices the difference…Did the fall even happen?

*Willow*
  Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:

advertisement
Old 06-02-2018, 05:27 PM #2
Anonymous59893
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Anonymous59893
Guest
Anonymous59893 has no updates. Edit
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: If a tree falls...

If a tree falls...

If a tree cries silently so no one hears, did it really cry?

What if a tree cries on the inside, but can’t cry on the outside because it has no tear ducts - is it actually sad?

What if a tree did cry, and did fall, and people did eventually notice, but no one is able to do a damn thing to help the tree…what does the poor tree do then?!

*Willow*
  Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 06-02-2018, 06:24 PM #3
12AM's Avatar
12AM 12AM is offline
Time Traveler
 
Member Since: Oct 2015
Location: Silver Town of Argyra
Posts: 3,502
12AM 12AM is offline
Time Traveler
12AM's Avatar
12AM is holding a compass in a fog
 
Member Since: Oct 2015
Location: Silver Town of Argyra
Posts: 3,502 (SuperPoster!)

3 yr Member
5,081 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Re: If a tree falls...

The tree is always alone
Living in a frigid zone
Where the wind always plays the same tone
From a seed til he’s fully grown

The tree will cry
The tree will die

The tree is always alone
But the seed of strength is sewn
He lives bravely though he is unknown
Til he becomes a symbol on top of a gravestone

The tree is tall
Standing above all

__________________
12AM is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 06-03-2018, 12:08 PM #4
TheLoony's Avatar
TheLoony TheLoony is offline
Member
 
Member Since: May 2013
Location: Area 51
Posts: 35
TheLoony TheLoony is offline
Member
TheLoony's Avatar
TheLoony has no updates.
 
Member Since: May 2013
Location: Area 51
Posts: 35

5 yr Member
1 hugs
given
Default Re: If a tree falls...

Exactly!
__________________
Meow
TheLoony is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 06-03-2018, 01:22 PM #5
Day Tripper's Avatar
Day Tripper Day Tripper is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Member Since: Mar 2016
Location: Spain
Posts: 3,399
Day Tripper Day Tripper is offline
Grand Magnate
Day Tripper's Avatar
Day Tripper Hugs to all the ladies!
 
Member Since: Mar 2016
Location: Spain
Posts: 3,399 (SuperPoster!)

3 yr Member
2,047 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Re: If a tree falls...

Does the tree make a sound? That's a really tough question to answer. What we hear is filtered through the faculties of the mind so that we may understand sounds that are caused by physical forces outside such as trees falling. So it depends on how you define "sound". Is it the mental quality you hear in your subjective consciousness such as "Crack! Booom!" Or is it the sound waves that we can measure objectively with scientific means? The former sound can't be heard without an observer, (unless the ultimate observer, God, senses all things). The former physical sound waves happen regardless.

It's like is an apple red if you don't look the apple tree. The redness of red as seen by the eye is a subjective mental state, that is like a mental shortcut that allows us to see it with the red quality. So you need an observer since that is a secondary quality (smells, colors, sounds, heat, cold. pain ect…) However, the color wavelengths that are the cause of the red quality is there regardless since it isn't dependent on an observer to translate the waves into qualities such as color.

Primary qualities that are direct are edges, lines, hardness, softness, smooth, ect… These direct qualities don't need an observer because the mind perceives them as they are, and doesn't need to "translate them" into mental short cuts like secondary qualities are.

But however, if we are all in the mind of God then everything is accounted for even the sound of a tree unseen by anyone but God.
Day Tripper is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 06-05-2018, 02:01 PM #6
Anonymous59893
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Anonymous59893
Guest
Anonymous59893 has no updates. Edit
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: If a tree falls...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12AM View Post
The tree is always alone
Living in a frigid zone
Where the wind always plays the same tone
From a seed til he’s fully grown

The tree will cry
The tree will die

The tree is always alone
But the seed of strength is sewn
He lives bravely though he is unknown
Til he becomes a symbol on top of a gravestone

The tree is tall
Standing above all

Thank you 12AM for this very appropriate, and beautiful, poem. It really evokes in me the feelings that I was trying to convey. And thank you for the hug too, I really appreciate that

*Willow*
  Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Hugs from:
Old 06-05-2018, 02:21 PM #7
Anonymous59893
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Anonymous59893
Guest
Anonymous59893 has no updates. Edit
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: If a tree falls...

Thank you for your very detailed reply, DT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Day Tripper View Post
Does the tree make a sound?
Actually, to clarify, whilst my post was inspired by this question (and by seeing the crying tree), my actual question was 'does the tree fall if no one is around to see it fall?' But I can extrapolate from your reply about whether it makes a sound, to if it falls, so thank you for that.

It seems to be what most people believe: what is observable is what is 'real'. I still find it hard to believe that things might be that simplistic: it certainly isn't in my internal world, but then I seem to be an anomaly; an outlier that is best ignored so as not to skew the data for everyone else.

Also, in case it wasn't clear, whilst my OPs were about trees, they were also nothing to do with trees; just to add to the confusion.

The only thing that I didn't understand from your reply was your distinction of 'primary' qualities (e.g. lines and edges) from 'secondary' qualities (e.g. colour). As far as I'm concerned, they both seem subjective. [An extreme example would be the experiments that they did on kittens' ability to see horizontal or vertical lines - they put them in an environment that only had one and not the other, and the kittens' brains lost the ability to detect the line type that wasn't in their early environment.]

I believe that we view 'reality' as we are, and that 'reality' is the product of our (subjective) observations. Everything is 'translated' as you say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Day Tripper View Post
But however, if we are all in the mind of God then everything is accounted for even the sound of a tree unseen by anyone but God.
I don't believe in God...unless the Moon is a god, but He remains tight-lipped about that...and many other things. Perhaps I should feel comforted by the fact that the Moon sees all. I mean, I definitely should feel grateful that at least I have Him with me in this... But whilst He sees all, he doesn't exactly explain all, or validate all, or even comment on many things, and so it is hard for me to make sense of myself. I don't know, I guess that I want more...

*Willow*
  Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
Old 06-08-2018, 09:20 PM #8
Anonymous59893
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Anonymous59893
Guest
Anonymous59893 has no updates. Edit
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: If a tree falls...

If a tree falls...

The poppies were really sad today. They were crying on the inside though, unlike the tree above. Their sadness pervaded the rest of my afternoon. I know that no one else can feel it, or see it...or maybe only a select few can...idk. But it’s still real. Even if all anybody else cares about is which celebrity is sleeping with whom, and what’s for dinner etc etc. All nonsense. But those poppies are important, and so is their sadness! Even if I’m the only one who noticed them...

*Willow*
  Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 06-08-2018, 11:15 PM #9
Day Tripper's Avatar
Day Tripper Day Tripper is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Member Since: Mar 2016
Location: Spain
Posts: 3,399
Day Tripper Day Tripper is offline
Grand Magnate
Day Tripper's Avatar
Day Tripper Hugs to all the ladies!
 
Member Since: Mar 2016
Location: Spain
Posts: 3,399 (SuperPoster!)

3 yr Member
2,047 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Re: If a tree falls...

I posted this in my blog last year:
Quote:
When G.E. Moore, in his Principia Ethica, argues for the existence of Beauty he gives us a pragmatic conclusion for its existence.
He writes:
If it be once admitted that the beautiful world in itself is better than the ugly, then it follows, that however many beings may enjoy it, and however much better their enjoyment may be than it is itself, yet its mere existence adds something to the goodness o the whole: it is not only a means to our ends, but also itself a part thereof. (Principia Ethica pg. 137)
Looking at the flower you posted, and all the one's SP posts also, makes me think nature has a standard for beauty.
Day Tripper is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
Old 06-09-2018, 07:14 AM #10
TheLonelyChemist's Avatar
TheLonelyChemist TheLonelyChemist is online now
Master of the Psychic End
 
Member Since: Jun 2018
Location: A Scientific Breakthrough
Posts: 2,493
TheLonelyChemist TheLonelyChemist is online now
Master of the Psychic End
TheLonelyChemist's Avatar
TheLonelyChemist has no problems.
 
Member Since: Jun 2018
Location: A Scientific Breakthrough
Posts: 2,493 (SuperPoster!)

2,563 hugs
given
Default Re: If a tree falls...

We do not know because it's not scientifically possible to deduce that. It's like, "how do you know without knowing?" Or how can an experiment's conclusions can be driven without doing the experiment. Nature has its beauty, what we call life (which is the most beautiful thing I have personally seen, felt, and experienced as well.) It has its thorns (people who wrong other people to put it simply.) as well as traps (disease -- as WHO puts it -- to be specific.)


I was always fascinated by life. But never liked biology. Too much "soft" for me. I don't know how to do math. Couldn't do physics. But liked it. Though didn't. Was forced to like it by myself. Now stuck with more materialistic chemistry, don't enjoy it as much as anthropology, but who in the hell respects an anthropologist? I don't want to end up in a Nazi camp as one of its torturous doctor. Not a joke but fact. I am not cruel enough to joke on things like that.


Anthropology is too soft for me. I am not good at memorizing. Might suffer from amnesia. I sound like a doctor writing psychological evaluations. I wanted to be. Could not. Health. I am not good at math either. So cannot be an astrophysicist. Who respects an astrophysicist? A lot of people do, almost everyone. Gets satisfied.


Being a psychiatrist isn't respected enough. Must be respected enough. A surgeon, perfect. Couldn't save everyone's life. Wouldn't undergo the knife myself. Why am I dwelling in the past? Does it make sense? Am I regretting something?


Cold, calculating machine. That's what I have become.


Wanted to own a Royal Enfield. "We don't have money for that."
Wanted to be in a respected college. "We don't have money for that."
Wanted to style my hair. "It's not traditional."
Wanted to go back and do a diploma in Computer Engineering. "It's not traditional."
Wanted to visit psychiatrist as a child to get early treatment. "They ask for too much money."
Wanted to legally own games. "Too much money."


It's not that my parents made me crazy either. It's just how the world is. Nature is beautiful, sometimes scarier than what Lovecraft could imagine in his terrific mind (if you get it.) A butterfly can cause a hurricane. A single mistake and I would be shot dead by God knows who.



The most horrible of all is the earth itself I guess. With all the geological disasters out there (I sometimes imagine a fire cyclone) and all of the possible ways to die there (not saying death is bad, or scary itself) there's no time to pick beautiful flowers, as children do.


Mental illness can be terrifying. Anything can be, if you view it that way.


I wanted to be a psychiatrist, why didn't I? I didn't have the right mind to do so.
TheLonelyChemist is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:25 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® — Copyright © 2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.



 

advertisement

Psych Central Forums

Psych Central is the leading mental health website, overseen by mental health professionals since 1995.

 

Helplines and Lifelines

The material on this site is for informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment provided by a qualified health care provider. .

Always consult your doctor or mental health professional before trying anything you read here.
Please read the full disclaimer.