advertisement
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-11-2020, 01:09 PM   #1
misterdonut
Junior Member
misterdonut has no updates.
 
Member Since: Oct 2016
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 21
3 yr Member
Unhappy Dealing with my own racism in a particular sense

I'm glad we have this place, because this is definitely the safest, most non-judgmental place to talk about virtually anything without judgement, at least that's what I've perceived here. Thanks for being supportive and a great community. Oh and I apologize in advance to any person of color who may be reading this and is bothered by it. I hope it gives you some insight to understand what goes on in the head of some white people. Actually, I have a feeling that black women may deal with the same issue I have, perhaps? (slight spoiler alert!)

I still have trepidation about broaching the topic, so I hope everyone's as gentle as I would expect. By and large, I'm very not-racist, though I know by the newer definitions coming out of the woke movement, they would disagree, but I'm going with the conventional definition. I think a lot of what we think of as racism actually has a lot to do with cultural differences, that's why a lot of "non-racists" like and love a lot of people of other races, people they're familiar with, have many friends from many ethic backgrounds, but then have problems with large swaths of other people of that ethnic group; though there are evolutionary aspects to it too, where we have a defense mechanism built in to protect ourselves from unknown, unfamiliar people and things.

Anyway, I didn't used to have this problem, in fact the second woman I ever dated was black, very black, and a wonderful, amazing woman. In fact if I hadn't already signed up to join the military I probably would have wound up with her long term; but she didn't want to follow me into that life. I remember when were dating, there was a magazine article about the mixing of races, they had a collage of images demonstrating how all races would eventually blend together and it's something she and I celebrated, we were excited about it.

Many years went by, I was older, the youthful innocence and acceptance waned and I was still single, I had (and still have) a hard time meeting women and keeping a relationship going for very long. I live in a university town and I work in the campus area, so I started noticing a lot of very attractive white women walking clearly as part of a couple with a black man, I saw it every day and it started to bother me. It bothered me, and I know there are some boundary issues and irrationality here (a lot of our motives come from irrational and emotional places), but it bothered me that she would choose to be with him instead of me (yes I know, she may have never been attracted to me personally), but the kicker was that I would think about the economics of it all. To me there was a clear imbalance in how many white women dated black men, versus how many white men who I saw with women of color, any color or race other than white, and so there was an issue for me of competition for the same desired type of woman. And I know that when you have a dislike of something like that, you notice it more, there's a tunnel vision, a fixation on it, but I tried to notice white men dating women of color, but I tried to notice it as much as I could, in fact when I saw a white guy with a woman of color, I'd celebrate it in my head "You go, boy!" thinking that it balanced things out and took the competitive pressure off and well, love is love, so I was happy about that too (and yes, I know "love is love" for the white woman with the black man, but still, I feel like I'm getting left out in the cold.)

Oh yeah, I think the factor that started to turn my discomfort from dislike to hate and anger was that I was starting to see women on the dating personals online, who I was attracted to and they would write in their profile: "I only date black men." or "Once you go black, you don't go back." etc. Which just pours a bag of salt on the wound and maybe stabs it a few more times. It's the absolutely slam-the-door rejection. Actually I've seen once or twice another type, that made me angry as well, about circumcision!! LOL My race and what my parents had done to me when I was a baby aren't things I can change at all, so it's kind of maddening.

So, by this point, I really hate it. This morning I was having breakfast at a restaurant with my Dad and an interracial couple was seated directly behind him, so I had to keep seeing them. That's really what made me think that I have to deal with this. I know the more you focus on something, the more you have the emotion, the more intense it tends to become. But I realize that it's nothing but negative energy that isn't good for my mental health, I know that it's an inevitability, I can't stop it, it's not going to go away, so I have to learn to live with it, to accept it and find confidence that there are enough women that I'm attracted to out there for me to find love.

Oh and I've tried to raise this difficulty of mine elsewhere in the past and I received no sympathy, in fact I was jeered, people told me to "just date women of color"... well I've dated women of color, I think some are very attractive, but I've learned about myself that no woman gives me the feeling of complete attraction like a white woman does, I think it just has to do with childhood imprinting, what triggers oxytocin release, etc.

So anyway, I hope that I'm in a place where I can trust where I can find non-judgmental consideration and support for me with this problem, unwanted "advice" related to examples I've mentioned, particularly because I know it's a very real problem and I want to get over it. I have some good ideas about what I need to do, but I thought I'd come here for support and maybe some insight. Thank you.
misterdonut is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Hugs from:
"Thanks for this!" says:

advertisement
Old 11-11-2020, 01:54 PM   #2
Yaowen
Grand Poohbah
 
Yaowen's Avatar
Yaowen has no updates.
 
Member Since: Jan 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 1,604 (SuperPoster!)
2,881 hugs
given
Default Re: Dealing with my own racism in a particular sense

Dear misterdonut,

I read your post but I don't think I have sufficient knowledge, experience or insight to have anything like helpful "wisdom" about the things you mentioned. So very sorry! Hopefully others here will have useful ideas. My heart goes out to you!

Sincerely yours, Yao Wen
Yaowen is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 11-11-2020, 03:58 PM   #3
misterdonut
Junior Member
misterdonut has no updates.
 
Member Since: Oct 2016
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 21
3 yr Member
Default Re: Dealing with my own racism in a particular sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaowen View Post
Dear misterdonut,

I read your post but I don't think I have sufficient knowledge, experience or insight to have anything like helpful "wisdom" about the things you mentioned. So very sorry! Hopefully others here will have useful ideas. My heart goes out to you!

Sincerely yours, Yao Wen

Thank you Yao Wen, I appreciate it!
misterdonut is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 11-13-2020, 02:53 AM   #4
sarahsweets
Threadtastic Postaholic
 
sarahsweets's Avatar
sarahsweets has no updates.
 
Member Since: Dec 2018
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,839 (SuperPoster!)
1 yr Member
172 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Re: Dealing with my own racism in a particular sense

Hey @misterdonut

I will be as sensitive as I can and please note if I disagree with you or bring something up it is not me thinking you are a bad person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by misterdonut View Post
I still have trepidation about broaching the topic, so I hope everyone's as gentle as I would expect. By and large, I'm very not-racist, though I know by the newer definitions coming out of the woke movement, they would disagree, but I'm going with the conventional definition.
Can you share what you think the definition might be? It would help me to see where you are coming from and give me context.
Quote:

Many years went by, I was older, the youthful innocence and acceptance waned and I was still single, I had (and still have) a hard time meeting women and keeping a relationship going for very long. I live in a university town and I work in the campus area, so I started noticing a lot of very attractive white women walking clearly as part of a couple with a black man, I saw it every day and it started to bother me. It bothered me, and I know there are some boundary issues and irrationality here (a lot of our motives come from irrational and emotional places), but it bothered me that she would choose to be with him instead of me (yes I know, she may have never been attracted to me personally), but the kicker was that I would think about the economics of it all. To me there was a clear imbalance in how many white women dated black men, versus how many white men who I saw with women of color, any color or race other than white, and so there was an issue for me of competition for the same desired type of woman.
What do you mean by the economics? Can you share?
Quote:
Oh yeah, I think the factor that started to turn my discomfort from dislike to hate and anger was that I was starting to see women on the dating personals online, who I was attracted to and they would write in their profile: "I only date black men." or "Once you go black, you don't go back." etc. Which just pours a bag of salt on the wound and maybe stabs it a few more times. It's the absolutely slam-the-door rejection. Actually I've seen once or twice another type, that made me angry as well, about circumcision!! LOL My race and what my parents had done to me when I was a baby aren't things I can change at all, so it's kind of maddening.
At least they posted it on their profile. I suppose it could be considered like people that like blondes most. Or a Jewish girl who only wants to date Jewish men. Or black women that only want to date black men. Its preference and comfort level.
Quote:
Oh and I've tried to raise this difficulty of mine elsewhere in the past and I received no sympathy, in fact I was jeered, people told me to "just date women of color"... well I've dated women of color, I think some are very attractive, but I've learned about myself that no woman gives me the feeling of complete attraction like a white woman does, I think it just has to do with childhood imprinting, what triggers oxytocin release, etc
I think its ok to have preferences.
Quote:
So anyway, I hope that I'm in a place where I can trust where I can find non-judgmental consideration and support for me with this problem, unwanted "advice" related to examples I've mentioned, particularly because I know it's a very real problem and I want to get over it. I have some good ideas about what I need to do, but I thought I'd come here for support and maybe some insight. Thank you.
I hope I have demonstrated support and validation to you.
__________________
"I carried a watermelon?"

President of the no F's given society.
sarahsweets is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 11-16-2020, 02:40 PM   #5
misterdonut
Junior Member
misterdonut has no updates.
 
Member Since: Oct 2016
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 21
3 yr Member
Default Re: Dealing with my own racism in a particular sense

I appreciate your responses. I'll just respond to one question of yours at a time right now @sarahsweets for time sensitivity.

I'll reiterate that I don't think that any of my complaints are something that I can hold against anyone, it's just emotion, dealing with the realities of the world today and feeling left out.

I'm just going to attach a paper version that I drew for a diagram I worked on on my computer, but it crashed and I lost it. Basically, you see that you have some intraracial relationships, some have interracial relationships, then you have those who want intraracial relationships but they lack the opportunity. This is of course an extremely simplified breakdown, but you can apply it to populations of thousands and millions and while it won't be reflected in reality perfectly, it is somewhat accurate within trends.

Interracial relationships between black men and white women are being glorified in media and entertainment, nearly every ad you see these days featuring a couple is a black man and a white woman, even my Dad who's quite anti-racist notices it. Black men dominate as the "heroes" in our present day culture, they make up the majority of the dominant professional mega popularity sports athletes, a great many of the music stars who are male and women gravitate toward those models, white men have been deposed from those roles to a disproportionate degree. It just increases the pressures on finding a mate, there are already too many reasons why we to not date people as our culture becomes more fragmented and we have more and more differences that are deal breakers. It's not the only problem, but one of many that makes it increasingly difficult to find love without major compromises for compatibility.

And I'm not saying that the a person who feels anger or frustration about the interracial relationships can justifiably say anything about it, the people in the relationship have chosen to date or marry that person and that's completely their right. Nevertheless jealousy, envy, racism emerges in people and it's not just white men, I know that there are a lot of black women upset about the quandary that it places them in as well. The mental health aspect of it, the social issues associated are real and should be dealt with, which is what I'm trying to do for myself. It will probably help tremendously once I meet someone for a lasting relationship, my problem is that I'm in my middle age period and I've never been married, I've not really had many lasting relationships; I could write a book about why. I'll also admit that when I have that jealousy seeing a couple, that the woman may perfectly well not have been interested in me anyway, but that's why the economics of it are important, because she may not have dated me, but then in the world that my id wishes for, she'd be dating another white guy, which would take him out of the competition for someone else that I might date, it's something of a domino effect. Do you see what I'm saying? Honestly I think you can find frustration in every racial group related to witnessing others from their racial group pairing with someone from outside of it. And it boils down to a primal, emotional response.

I'm not sure what I was hoping for from the post, I think it was help in getting over the problem, truly and fully. I may need to talk to a therapist about it.

Dealing with my own racism in a particular sense
misterdonut is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 11-16-2020, 06:37 PM   #6
divine1966
Legendary
 
divine1966's Avatar
divine1966 Tired!!!
 
Member Since: Dec 2014
Location: US
Posts: 16,911 (SuperPoster!)
5 yr Member
958 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Re: Dealing with my own racism in a particular sense

I do understand people having preferences and choices and everyone has rights to date whoever they choose. Like if you don’t want to date people of different cultures, you have rights to not date them. But I do not understand why you care who other people date? Personally I only care about my own preferences. I don’t care who other people date. I just don’t understand the issue I guess
divine1966 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
Old 11-16-2020, 07:33 PM   #7
TishaBuv
Wise Elder
 
TishaBuv's Avatar
TishaBuv has no updates.
 
Member Since: Dec 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8,716 (SuperPoster!)
5 yr Member
1,294 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Re: Dealing with my own racism in a particular sense

“in fact the second woman I ever dated was black, very black, and a wonderful, amazing woman. In fact if I hadn't already signed up to join the military I probably would have wound up with her long term; but she didn't want to follow me into that life.”

“ I've dated women of color, I think some are very attractive, but I've learned about myself that no woman gives me the feeling of complete attraction like a white woman does,”

^these statements you made seem contradictory to me. Could your obsessive thinking about romantic racial differences stem from your ex who didn’t want to commit to you?

Btw- someone actually put on their dating profile a preference about circumcision?
__________________
"And don't say it hasn't been a little slice of heaven, 'cause it hasn't!"
. About Me--T
TishaBuv is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 11-16-2020, 08:10 PM   #8
divine1966
Legendary
 
divine1966's Avatar
divine1966 Tired!!!
 
Member Since: Dec 2014
Location: US
Posts: 16,911 (SuperPoster!)
5 yr Member
958 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Re: Dealing with my own racism in a particular sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by TishaBuv View Post
“in fact the second woman I ever dated was black, very black, and a wonderful, amazing woman. In fact if I hadn't already signed up to join the military I probably would have wound up with her long term; but she didn't want to follow me into that life.”

“ I've dated women of color, I think some are very attractive, but I've learned about myself that no woman gives me the feeling of complete attraction like a white woman does,”

^these statements you made seem contradictory to me. Could your obsessive thinking about romantic racial differences stem from your ex who didn’t want to commit to you?

Btw- someone actually put on their dating profile a preference about circumcision?
I think he said his main issue is white women dating black men. Not black women dating white men.
divine1966 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 11-16-2020, 08:11 PM   #9
divine1966
Legendary
 
divine1966's Avatar
divine1966 Tired!!!
 
Member Since: Dec 2014
Location: US
Posts: 16,911 (SuperPoster!)
5 yr Member
958 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Re: Dealing with my own racism in a particular sense

Have you considered working with a therapist?
divine1966 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 11-17-2020, 08:32 AM   #10
sarahsweets
Threadtastic Postaholic
 
sarahsweets's Avatar
sarahsweets has no updates.
 
Member Since: Dec 2018
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,839 (SuperPoster!)
1 yr Member
172 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Re: Dealing with my own racism in a particular sense

Sometimes the question is "are you willing to change your beliefs"?
__________________
"I carried a watermelon?"

President of the no F's given society.
sarahsweets is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:45 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® — Copyright © 2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.



 

advertisement

Psych Central Forums

Psych Central is the leading mental health website, overseen by mental health professionals since 1995.

 

Helplines and Lifelines

The material on this site is for informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment provided by a qualified health care provider.

Always consult your doctor or mental health professional before trying anything you read here.
Please read the full disclaimer.