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Default Nov 17, 2012 at 07:02 PM
  #1
So I have this long term (25 years old) r/s in Europe and I will visit for Christmas. His name is D. We have only been sexual a few times. Maybe 20 times total. But he was deeply in love with me for many years.

Last time, we were sexual when he visited in October. And without condoms. I was OK doing it without condoms because I have an IUD and I had not had sex in 3.5 years and before that I lived in mutual monogamy for 12 years. He is legally married but only seeing his "wife" several times a year and not having sex. Weird, I know. I do not know when was the last time they had sex, but it was a while ago. He is a doctor, namely, a p-doc.

If I could go back to Europe, I would possibly live with him and the biggest issue would be his smoking in the apartment which is something I will put up with for two weeks in this coming winter but not for a lifetime. I certainly would not want to have children with asthma, that is for sure. So that would be a big big problem for me, but faithfulness would not be a problem and I know I can pull off monogamy because I did it - for 12 years. He would just need to have frequent sex with me but with frequent sex I can be happily faithful. Moreover, I would not even demand anything in return - I can understand that at his age he has accumulated some other attachments and am perfectly happy being the main love of his life (I am) but not the only one and if he wanted to occasionally sleep with another woman, that would be perfectly OK with me.

That, if I could go back. I am not going back - I am staying in the Bay Area. So I would spend two weeks with him and then not see him until next time when both he and I have a vacation - he wanted to go to Dresden and to Israel with me, so those would be potential destinations. Unless something else comes up in my life as it might.

It seems selbsverstaendlich that in this scenario I cannot be "faithful". It annoys me to even think that he has this sort of expectation. Plus, we are just very different in this regard. When he visited, he said that the r/s between him and his wife might improve and in that case he would not "work on two fronts". I understand that he is like that; I am not, for sure - I can work on two, three, and more fronts without a problem. I CAN be faithful, but I definitely do not have to. It is not a requirement for me. I actually enjoy the variety. I love all three of my cats for the same reason - each colored differently, each with a distinct personality. I like opening my inbox and seeing emails from different men - what an innocuous thing to enjoy. I have always been like that - since first grade. Always liked being pursued by many boys at once. It really is an innocent pleasure. But enough about that. Last we talked about it, he was terrified that I would get lovers again as I did in the past.

Well, to make the long story short, I do have a new lover with whom I have protected vaginal sex and in December I will reconnect with a very old lover who also was always into protected vaginal sex. So, unless someone completely new knocks on my door, I will have been with two guys by the time I go to Europe. Both strictly with condoms.

What does it mean to me in terms of condoms with D.? Should I put a condom on him? If I do, how would I do explain that I all of a sudden started needing a condom without saying that I sleep with other men? I am in general all for honesty and transparency, but in this particular case I really think I should not tell him that I sleep with other men or he would have a heart attack or lose his erection or both. I should not be brutally honest, I think. I should protect his feelings and sensibilities.

Alternatively, I can be "fluid exclusive" with him, meaning that I would exchange fluids with him only while having protected sex with a number of other men. That would work for me totally fine, but my question is - is it fair to him? Do I have an obligation to have protected sex with him now that I have perfectly protected sex with other lovers?

I am just so annoyed. He clearly has a low libido. He falls in love, he writes good poetry when in love, no question about that, he has deep feelings and all the rest of that, he is probably far superior to me in that regard, but in terms of just pure libido his is low - otherwise why did he marry so late and why did he and his wife never live together even in the beginning? I have normal libido and I need frequent sex. I was able to live alone and completely without sex for so long because I was asexual as a side effect of a high dose of my antipsychotic. Once the dose was adjusted down, I became OK and I need frequent sex. How can you expect a 40 year old woman to have occasional sex only?

I just think that being honest with him would equal being very cruel, and I really do not want that. I want to be protective, not cruel.

Last edited by hamster-bamster; Nov 17, 2012 at 07:58 PM..
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Default Nov 17, 2012 at 07:19 PM
  #2
yeah, the funny thing is, his wife knows me and took a whole bunch of books when I was dismantling my late mom's apartment over there.... so he is going to borrow a cot from her as if for me, for the time of my stay, to pretend that he is not sleeping with me. I am like... whatever.... too funny. They see each other several times a year but he plays these funny games with her. Beyond my comprehension. But, none of my business - it is their private life and they decide how to live it. What I need is to make a decision with respect to condom use - that one is not funny.
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Default Nov 17, 2012 at 08:12 PM
  #3
I just cannot believe something so simple and mundane has grown into this complex issue.
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Default Nov 18, 2012 at 05:41 AM
  #4
Wow, you have got yourself in quite a muddle huh! I'd say it's better to be safe than sorry and just tell him he's not your only sexual partner and that you just are being sensible about it. Seems the best way. All sounds highly confusing with his wife - are they going to divorce or something? Hugs, M.
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Default Nov 20, 2012 at 12:38 PM
  #5
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Originally Posted by the submissive View Post
Wow, you have got yourself in quite a muddle huh! I'd say it's better to be safe than sorry and just tell him he's not your only sexual partner and that you just are being sensible about it. Seems the best way. All sounds highly confusing with his wife - are they going to divorce or something? Hugs, M.
very confusing with his wife and he sends me mixed messages regarding the possibility of divorce. i got your point about being upfront with him. i will buy some Durex before I leave.
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Default Nov 20, 2012 at 12:56 PM
  #6
I don't think you have to explain why you want to use a condom. You are not married to him. You don't owe him anything. You most especially do not owe him an explanation as to why you want to practice safe sex. Not these days.
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Default Nov 20, 2012 at 01:04 PM
  #7
Hansker, so I can just say that my rule is to practice safe sex WITHOUT saying that I have some other people, right? That would be perfect. Indeed, he is married to someone else, why oh WHY am I supposed to have unprotected sex with him??
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Default Nov 21, 2012 at 09:16 PM
  #8
So should I just put a condom on him and say "you are not my H so I am putting a condom on you because this is my rule"?

I really should not owe him any explanations.
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Default Nov 21, 2012 at 11:05 PM
  #9
So I shared my predicament with my Skype friend from Maine and his proposal is for me to get tested before I go to Europe. I will have time for that. He thinks that it might be free from Planned Parenthood because I have limited income. And if everything is clean, go ahead and have unprotected sex and not say anything.

So that is another option.
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Default Nov 22, 2012 at 10:51 AM
  #10
Sorry having some trouble navigating. You never know when someone is gonna pick up a yeast infection. I have been on the receiving end so to speak and a condom was the norm. I'm just sayin.
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Default Nov 23, 2012 at 01:22 AM
  #11
Tests for STD's are a smart way to go.. Only problem I see is HIV doesn't always show up in blood tests right away. In this day and age I think people just need to protect themselves. Condoms are not 100% effective against STDs.

Just my opinion

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Default Nov 23, 2012 at 05:55 PM
  #12
At some point this was my biggest problem, but not anymore. I was not in touch with my adult son, wanted to get in touch, and he did not just accept it - he demands explanations. He wants to know what happened to me. Now I am sweating how to explain stuff to him, including really difficult stuff such as suicidality and dependent personality disorder, and this thing pales in comparison. So I will think about it later - thanks for the opinion. I think in general the rule should be "no condoms, no sex, no questions asked" and that should be the end of it.
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Default Nov 29, 2012 at 11:44 PM
  #13
So I told G about D. He was very happy for me. He sees (he cannot not see it) that I lead a very austere existence so he was happy to learn that I would have a break from it during Christmas, that I would go back to Europe, where I have friends, a guy, and a favorite former teacher; he was equally happy to learn that I plan an event-packed schedule complete with plays and art exhibitions. (In terms of event-packed - it took a month of constant nagging to get D's commitment to start buying theather and concert tickets; I made all his plane and hotel reservations in the US without a single repeat request, by contrast)

And now I want complete symmetry. Now that I have seen what support means and how it feels to receive support, I want support from D. And not "lack of jealousy" but true 100% support. I want to tell him about G and I want him to feel relieved that I finally am not completely alone in the Bay Area, that there is someone who cares about me here. And if he is unable to feel that way, then his friendship is meaningless. Is that too much to ask of him?

More about symmetry. If he all of sudden mended the r/s with his wife, I would have supported him all along because I think it would have been good for him not to be alone. Is it fair to expect the same amount of support in return? I have not in reality provided that support, but only because the right opportunity has not presented itself; I am always available.

In my struggle to rebuild a r/s with my adult son, D washed his hands right away while G is being supportive. So I am learning (I think by 42 it is time to learn that skill and, in general, earlier is advisable) to measure guys not by their length but by the amount of support they are able and willing to give.

When D experienced a minor public disgrace, I provided ample consolation. Again, in my situation with my son which is much, much worse, he is unable or unwilling to provide any support. So everything is asymmetrical/unfair.

So that is how I feel right now and I feel that I am justified and I certainly am not going to pretend anything. So no STD testing for me.

The only thing, out of fairness to D, perhaps I should let him know a bit in advance rather than start this conversation when he has an erection a propos of the need to use condoms. Condoms, sure, are necessary, but what this really is about is support for my choices.

I understand sexual possessiveness when you live together and are able to meet your partner's needs. I was like that myself when I was three years old. I pushed a girl who wanted to kiss the boy I considered mine, and said that I would be kissing the boy instead. But at least I was there to kiss the boy - I did not deprive the boy of his chance to be kissed! When you do not live on the same continent and cannot physically meet your partner's needs, how can you claim exclusivity? Moreover, he is unwilling to meet even those needs that CAN be met remotely - I told him by email that I had stopped eating and drinking due to anxiety and he did not even acknowledge it. Wonderful, someone who (occasionally) claims to love me and a p-doc to boot does not acknowledge that I have developed a severe problem! And what totally bewilders me - he has never asked me if my orgasms have returned. He is a p-doc, he knows I was going to swap Geodon for Abilify, he should know that sexual side effects go away within weeks, it has been many weeks since... he does not ask. To not care about something so important for the person you (occasionally) claim to love?? Or is he too shy to ask this question? But if he is too shy to ask this question, he should be delicensed by his medical board, I think. A licensed p-doc ought to be able to ask this question.

Am I expecting too much of him?
More... G told me a couple of times that besides correct medications and sexual life and exercise I need a creative outlet for mental wellness. And... I listened and remembered that I once went to an art class in our community art school and made a bead necklace, and it was a really good necklace and it I enjoyed the process. Luckily, I live right by a huge beading store! So that would be my creative outlet! I decided to start with a necklace for the midwife's youngest daughter (since the idea came from G, that seemed natural) and then made a mental list of women I could give a necklace to as a present in Europe this winter, and sure enough, on my mental list was D's wife. Yes, she keeps boxes with my late grandparents' books so I am indebted to her, but I know myself and I am positive that had I not been indebted to her I would have still thought of her because I want to be nice and friendly. I have never felt even remotely jealous or threatened. Why should D feel threatened by people in my life? No one is ill-willing or scheming against him. He is 56 years old; he might need to mature a bit, I think.

Reasonable? Fair? Should it be a conversation on Skype or a letter?
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Default Nov 29, 2012 at 11:46 PM
  #14
And, I no longer think that it is a very difficult situation. I think it is pretty straightforward, I just need help phrasing my thoughts correctly.
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Default Dec 02, 2012 at 02:08 PM
  #15
People are entitled to their own feelings about things. There is no one right way to feel or act. It may seem logical or best to you, but you're taking a lot of drugs and have had to stifle your real feelings for a long time. I am also talking about myself of course. What is lawful or ethical may not always be what we want. What we want might be a little "smaller".
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Default Dec 03, 2012 at 04:02 AM
  #16
Whether you get tested Hammy only shows your end, not his. Just as you were not going to tell him who you slept with, he could do the same. Std's go both ways, probably better to just use something.

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Default Dec 10, 2012 at 07:43 PM
  #17
I wrote a very very very good letter. A water tight letter. Ran it by a friend who approved it. Did not go into any symmetry except for one - if D ever mends his r/s with his wife, I would be happy for him as he won't be alone, and my being sure that I would be happy for him entitles me to the expectation that he would be happy for me now. He responded with "sure, I am happy for you". And since then he has been extra nice. And yesterday I went to a bead store to pick out orange beads (she said she prefers orange) made from resin and tonight with those beads I will go to a class during which I will make a necklace to give to his wife as a Christmas present.

The key to success was writing in such a way that set very clear expectations for his response without leaving any room for maneuver.
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Default Dec 10, 2012 at 07:48 PM
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Whether you get tested Hammy only shows your end, not his. Just as you were not going to tell him who you slept with, he could do the same. Std's go both ways, probably better to just use something.
Yes, and now I will just say that we should use something, without going into details. Now, the problem is exactly the one you foresaw, Anika: it seems that I got unlucky with Topamax. It seems that my orgasms stopped because of Topamax - remember you asked about that? Well, 2% of patients who take Topamax to prevent migraines develop sexual side effects, and I apparently fall into those unlucky 2%.

So I should probably stop maligning Geodon and planning to live on Lithium alone because it is not the medium dose of Geodon that is at fault - it is the Topamax.

I am giving it some time because I have heard that things might get better. Wish me luck! If it is Topamax, it is the THIRD med to give me sexual side effects, after Risperdal, high doses of Geodon, and now Topamax. I just have incredible luck with those meds!
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Default Dec 10, 2012 at 07:56 PM
  #19
I am going to disregard how hurt I felt due to the fact that he has never asked me about my orgasms and will write to D about apparently having sexual side effects to Topamax. I know he has a theory that developing a side effect to one drug predisposes one to developing the same side effect to another drug - he told me that my having had akathisia, an unusual side effect, on Seroquel, makes it far more likely that I would develop akathisia if I try Abilify - akathisia is THE number 1 side effect of Abilify. So I will write to him that he seems to be right about side effects occurring across drugs - I had the sexual stuff on risperdal, geodon, and now, boom, topamax. If I had a theory and someone accumulated evidence in support of my theory, it would be nice of her to give me that evidence, so I would be nice to him.
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Default Dec 11, 2012 at 10:16 PM
  #20
Unbelievable results.

I wrote two letters to him. In one letter, I said that I had made a necklace for his wife. In response, he said "thank you" and inquired whether the Icelandic sweater I had bought online for him has arrived (no). In the other letter, sent at the same time, I told him the sad story about Topamax. He did not acknowledge receipt. I know he must have received it because two emails went out together, concurrently. I know well his habit of ignoring all emails he does not want to discuss - he ignored it when I wrote that I stopped eating/drinking due to anxiety.

How he practices medicine if he cannot discuss sexual topics is beyond me.

I am happy that I am not his patient.
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