Question for the guys

First of all, I made the statements of hypothetical wants (smaller nose, skinnier body, etc) in response to YOUR statement "what more could you want?" AFTER you had made the comment that I am "completely out of touch with reality" to prove a point that as a female there is always going to be something looks wise we want. That doesn't mean I am actively pursing those wants.

Second, I didn't post a photo of myself soliciting male opinions on my degree of "ugliness". Allow me to point out the fact that YOU posted a link to MY Psych Central page where it had a photo of me which I took down to avoid further conflict.

I started this thread with the genuine intention of seeking a general consensus from the males on what matters more looks vs personality. You made it about me, I didn't.

So judge me all you want for my questions, that's fine. Just be aware that you have no tact.

Your question implies that you believe in some sort of a dichotomy "looks - personality".

There is more to being attractive than looks-personality.

There are also good manners.

Good manners make attractive people much more attractive. Good manners endear you to others.

As of 4/15 7PM PST, the following post has no THANKS from you

even though you HAVE posted several times since, beginning on 4/14 at 11:51 PM.

So based on the picture that you have since removed, you are a young woman. You are no longer 3 years old. Therefore, you should by now have learned that when a guy pays you a compliment, you should acknowledge it gracefully.

Are you new to the site and just happen to be unaware of the THANKS button?

No, based on your stats:

Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,792

you are aware of the THANKS button. Moreover, you have used it on this thread (thanks for doing that).

So on the surface, you simply lack good manners, and that clearly would present difficulties for you, even though you are objectively pretty and even though you might have a great personality (with a caveat, see below).

Where do manners come from?

They come from two sources (or a mixture of them): personality and learning.

The personality source of good manners: usually, people like to thank others for being nice. It is part of their personalities. It does not require effort to be nice in response. It feels good to be nice in response. It feels good to be appreciative.

The learning source of good manners: this part is obvious. But, it is where you can change for the better - you can learn good manners.

That said, below the surface, to give you the benefit of the doubt, might lie some abuse-related and deep-seated inability to take a compliment gracefully. I have read about such cases here - when women cannot accept a compliment (not necessarily on looks, but could be on a job well done)... disbelieve the genuineness of the person who paid the compliment... etc. They cannot accept compliments NOT because they are rude, but because of some deep issues. If that is the case, therapy is recommended.

Which case is yours - the one on the surface or the one below the surface? You probably know better.

So with that, I am sorry for taking this turn away from its intended purpose, but I think that I am justified in making the observation I make, because it seems to me that the OP's purpose was practical rather than theoretical. Or, at least, it was to some degree practical. The practical part seems to be: "I believe that I am ugly, but have a great personality, and wonder if the personality will salvage my situation in the (perceived) absence of good looks."

So if indeed that was one the practical purposes of the OP, then I can tell you with confidence that you can ALWAYS improve the attractiveness by having good manners (this applies equally to both genders), and to the extent that they could be learned, that is where your efforts would be needed. Or, in the case of abuse-related inability to accept a compliment, then the joint efforts of T and you would be needed.

The point remains that your profile, at the time of OP, had your picture (and that of your really cute dog). That, as a fact, speaks more to your intentions than your words do. My posting a link to your profile page, which, within the site, is public, is of no consequence. If you did not want males to look at the picture, you should not have had it up AT THE TIME of posting.

Adam's compliment remains unacknowledged by you, so you clearly have a really interesting and unusual view of tact, privacy, how to manifest one's intentions properly, and other such matters that are not in any way related to looks.

You do not need to respond to me - since I already wasted my time trying to show to you that you have nothing to worry about (no, girls who do not worry about their looks do not waste their time on such highly theoretical pursuits as "I started this thread with the genuine intention of seeking a general consensus from the males on what matters more looks vs personality."; even in the very unlikely scenario that someone would genuinely seek a general consensus on what in her mind appears to be a binary issue between personality and looks, she would use the poll functionality for voting - someone with your 5-year tenure on the board must be aware of how polls are posted and that people seeking general consensus, as a rule, post polls) - I do not intend to waste any more time on you.

You're right. Sorry for being unclear in my question. Sorry for being rude and not hitting "thanks" on Adams post and sorry for wasting your time. Thanks for your reply.

Have a good night.

Looks are medium important to me. Passing on the middle question. Good personality is a big big plus.

I just wanted to add a good personality outweighs looks. Looks fade in time anyway. A good heart never does.

This thread makes me sad, because you're missing something really important.

These things are attractive: self-confidence and self-respect. The way to attract a good man is not to fit some idea of physical perfection, but to be happy with yourself, to think more about what kind of guy you want and what would make you happy than about who is willing to have you.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and it's not just governed by looks. If you feel insecure or unworthy, people will sense that. Worry about what you want, and let other people make up their own minds about you.

Court(That's a WHOLE lot more polite and well-mannered than "OP" don't you think?),

Only on PC can you ask a question to the guys and get attacked by a high-jacking, all-knowing female.

To your original questions:

Looks are the bait, personality is the hook.

Good looks will get a guys attention but only hold it if there is personality to add. If the initial attraction of "good looks" is not there, it's not usually a long-term deal breaker. It just makes things a little tougher for her. Perseverance and a great personality can alter a man's first impression of "pretty".

I can think of plenty of celebrities who are not what most people consider "pretty" but after time become "beautiful' and attractive. I'm sure you could think of a person or 2 about who you have said "how the heck are they considered xyz". Then after a while, you find yourself saying, "Hey, they're kinda cool".

Ultimately, there are people out there who are all about looks but if the only thing a guy needs is the pretty external shell, he's probably not a guy you'd want anything to do with anyway.

To be fair Bighands, I don't think there was any sort of malice involved on either part. I think there was just a sort of misunderstanding. It happens, and as things were patched up, no harm no foul, right? No need to throw fuel on the embers.

Dear Courtney,

I have found, the initial attraction I have for a woman, morphs, as I experience her. Sometimes, a woman who originally turned my head, doesn't look so good anymore, as I get to know her. Other times, a woman, I initially barely noticed, enchants me over time. It is really, all about the total being and how they present themselves.

I find it difficult, to find a woman unattractive solely on her physical attributes. Concomitantly, I find it difficult, to find a woman attractive solely on her physical attributes. A warm smile, and a pleasant, respectful disposition, go a long way to make any woman attractive. Obnoxious, arrogant, disrespectful, self involved behavior, can make any woman ugly.

Lastly, I'm sure you have heard the phrase, "she has a nice personality", said in mitigation of a woman who is not considered particularly attractive. These women, generally don't have a nice personality, i.e., they don't love or admire themselves for who they are. They don't respect themselves. If they truly had a nice personality, they would be attractive. Physically, they are not attractive enough to get by on their appearance alone, i.e., at least in the short term.

Maybe, the best single word to describe a woman, or a man, in an overall, positive sense, i.e., personality and appearance, is charming.

Courtney, you are charming!

Larry

CourtKnee,

You are incorrect believing that every girl has wants in regards to her looks, even if she does not pursue those wants in practice. I have never wanted my complexion to be any different from what it is, my nose to have any shape or size different from what I have, or any other changes to my face.

I would like to be a bit skinnier, now that I have gained weight over the last few years, but my want to be skinnier is objective and I stay in touch with reality - the BMI figure is too high. The BMI figure is reality.

That's a great post and I agree with almost all of it. And instead of charm or personality I'd replace depth of character and overall warmth as being the attributes that I find appealing.
IMO though, like attracts like. If someone bases their appeal on looks they will probably end up with a partner who bases his/her appeal on looks. One could substitute whatever one finds is appealing and that would also hold true.

There was no misunderstanding. There was a faux pas (to the extent to which inaction can be termed a "faux pas"), which was pointed out and quickly corrected.

Despite what others tell me I do not think that looks are of any significance in a relationship or even for attraction. I will admit that I do find tallish and curvy women attractive, although to be honest a nice voice is what really turns me on, but looks don’t factor into a relationship for me. What is really important to me has nothing to do with looks – kindness, respect, being loved, being listened to, etc. – and I have met many twisted women that were physically attractive.

Oh, Bighands,

In is INDEED a WHOLE lot more polite!

And the intended pun (intended, it seems...) in the wordplay on COURT in the name / COURTEOUS as a quaint adjective /COURT A WOMAN is precious.

Your next step will be to apply your politeness and courteousness to everybody on the forum and not to select posters.

I am sure that it won't be long before you take that crucial next step.

You have such keen vision when looking everywhere except in the mirror.

Have a wonderful day!

Wow isn't a word I like to use but... how did this thread get so ****ed up?
Courtney had no obligation to thank anyone. None of us do.
Presumptions, assumptions, and a thread hijack that became an over the top personal attack on someone's perceived breach of manners sounds like a pretty clear cut case of the pot calling the kettle black as far as manners go. If questioning the motives and intent of threads was acceptable practice then we'd have a fertile delta over in the sex forum

The reason that accepting compliments with grace endears you to others is partly due to the fact that such graceful acceptance is NOT obligatory - there is no mandate or rule from the site administration on using the THANKS button. The site administration only makes the button available to those who have a genuine desire to appreciate the time, kindness, and effort of others.

Given that Courtney reacted so speedily, I have no doubt that she does have the genuine desire to appreciate other people's time, kindness, and effort.

I wasn't upset that she didn't say thanks. Yes it is polite to say thanks for a compliment. From her original post it didn't sound like she was fishing for a compliment. She just asked would guys date someone they were not attracted too. The fact that she took her picture down after some comments were made, sounds like she is trying to gather an opinion about what the opposite sex values. I think for a lot of us, especially those who have not had a lot of relationship it is something we don't know. While everyone is different, there is usually a majority that has an opinion. For instance, being physically fit is usually preferred to those who are not. I myself don't find myself attractive, but I try not to show my insecurities, and talk about how I feel about myself. Being confident and comfortable about yourself, is generally preferred to not, But everyone is different, and we all have different values, and things we find attractive about another person.

To support Court Knee. Her original post was very simple and first off she was looking for opinions from men. I didn't see her asking for anyone to give opinions on "her looks" or give links to her profile. Probably she felt this was going to far for her comfort and I understand that. Her question is a legitimate one in this day of perfection. I also think you received some very nice posts from some men here.