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Default Aug 06, 2013 at 04:25 PM
  #21
Haha.
Maybe I misread somewhere, and missed it...but Appalachian, do you not identify as being asexual? Instead of merely seeking an asexual partner I mean? Perhaps it's something that works for you. At any rate, I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with this. I'm sorry any of us do. Sexuality seems to be one of the tried and true hot-button issues that nobody really talks about (for the most part) and is not allowed to express in a normal, healthy way. I believe all forms of sexuality are valid (providing they are consensual and do not cause harm to others) and that if we were actually given the space and support to explore what that is for us we'd be a lot better off as a society.
I wish you all the best in your journey.

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Default Aug 06, 2013 at 07:31 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by spondiferous View Post
Haha.
Maybe I misread somewhere, and missed it...but Appalachian, do you not identify as being asexual? Instead of merely seeking an asexual partner I mean? Perhaps it's something that works for you. At any rate, I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with this. I'm sorry any of us do. Sexuality seems to be one of the tried and true hot-button issues that nobody really talks about (for the most part) and is not allowed to express in a normal, healthy way. I believe all forms of sexuality are valid (providing they are consensual and do not cause harm to others) and that if we were actually given the space and support to explore what that is for us we'd be a lot better off as a society.
I wish you all the best in your journey.
No, I don't identify as being Asexual. An Asexual does not experience any sexual attraction at all. I do, I experience sexual urges and attraction but I hate that I do. And while being with someone who is Asexual would probably be a good match, I'm not going to hold myself to that.
I have made some good progress on this with my current therapist. I'm not really the kind of guy to go out and try to "force" a relationship, but I'm not going to sabotage or avoid potential engagements like I have all my life. I'm just going to have to be open and honest and trust that whoever may come along will understand.
Thank you for your help and your concern. You're right, even though today we live in a more sexually progressive society than we ever have, it's still a pretty awkward subject. It's nice to have a place like this to talk about it openly with accepting people.
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Default Aug 08, 2013 at 12:27 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by AppalachianAxis View Post
No, I don't identify as being Asexual. An Asexual does not experience any sexual attraction at all. I do, I experience sexual urges and attraction but I hate that I do.

...

even though today we live in a more sexually progressive society than we ever have, it's still a pretty awkward subject.
I am afraid that your case is the toughest. A more sexually progressive society is something that would help a guy who, basically, likes sex, but needs to shed some baggage with respect to sex-negativity. But you hate what you do. It is more complex. Much more complex. I am glad therapy has been fruitful.
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Default Aug 09, 2013 at 05:54 PM
  #24
So, my Therapist has brought up the interesting proposal of me making an appointment with a psychiatrist with the intent of starting me on some medication. Nothing specific so far, but she mentioned Antidepressants and maybe some moderate OCD medications. Not that I'm depressed or obsessive. Although the OCD meds would come into play in regards to breaking my current binge-and-fast cycle of indulging in pornography and masturbation. Some of these medicines apparently have been known to drastically reduce one's sex drive as a side-effect. While for most people this would be a pretty undesirable hindrance, I think it would go a long way towards my getting over my impulses.

Just a few things I'm hesitant about.
Firstly as I said I'm not what you'd call depressed and outside of masturbating more often than I'd like I don't really have any other obsessive or compulsive tendencies. I'm a bit apprehensive about how starting medication would affect me outside of the whole sex thing. I just don't want to change who I am because of this. Eh, perhaps I'm just being a bit paranoid?
Secondly, my therapist took the effort to regal me with horror stories about the time it takes to actually get in to see a local psychiatrist. And when I did, I've got no guarantee that this personal would understand my reasons behind wanting to get on these medications. I imagine that if I went to any regular doctor and told them I wanted drugs that would kill my sex drive, they might just refer me right back to therapy!
Lastly, I guess I just don't really know how to feel about taking medicine for this problem. Maybe I'm just being way too stubborn and prideful to turn away help when it's offered to me, but I can't help but feel a bit weak if I were to to this. I'm worried I'll always feel like I could have beaten this thing on my own but didn't have the will power to do so.

Does anybody have any thoughts or opinions? I really cannot overstate how much I appreciate any kind of help I can get.
Thanks!
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Default Aug 09, 2013 at 06:41 PM
  #25
Maybe you need to be emotionally invested in someone before you feel sexual attraction to them?

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Default Aug 09, 2013 at 08:29 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Confusedinomicon View Post
Maybe you need to be emotionally invested in someone before you feel sexual attraction to them?
Thanks, but as I've posted above, the problem isn't any lack of sexual attraction on my part. I do experience sexual attraction, but I hate it and I wish it wasn't a part of my life.
And to feel sexual attraction for someone I care about emotionally just feels... wrong.
Ill. Repulsive. Bad. Flat-out immoral. Whatever you want to call it, it's just one of the worst thoughts that could enter my head and I would never act on that impulse in a million years because sex holds nothing good for me.

Thus, I want to either completely get rid of my sex drive, master it and never again act on it, or at the very least drastically reduce it. And now my therapist is talking about trying some antidepressant and OCD medication, which might help force my sex drive down a few notches (hopefully more). I'm just a little uneasy about taking medication for a condition I don't have strictly to gain the side-effect of a eviscerated libido. Also because of the other reasons stated in my previous post.

Any advice?
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Default Aug 10, 2013 at 01:18 AM
  #27
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I'm just a little uneasy about taking medication for a condition I don't have strictly to gain the side-effect of a eviscerated libido.
Do realize that both intended effects and side effects of medications cannot be predicted in advance. What it means to you is:

- it is possible that medications would not produce the libido eviscerating effects (three medications killed my libido fully: Topamax, Risperdal, and Geodon - but none of them are antidepressants or OCD meds; plus, that I had this reaction does not mean that you would)

- it is possible that even though medications would produce the libido eviscerating effect, they would also produce other side effects that would be intolerable

So... just to keep in mind that the medications route does not have a particulrly high likelihood of helping you.
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Default Aug 10, 2013 at 09:01 AM
  #28
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Do realize that both intended effects and side effects of medications cannot be predicted in advance. What it means to you is:

- it is possible that medications would not produce the libido eviscerating effects (three medications killed my libido fully: Topamax, Risperdal, and Geodon - but none of them are antidepressants or OCD meds; plus, that I had this reaction does not mean that you would)

- it is possible that even though medications would produce the libido eviscerating effect, they would also produce other side effects that would be intolerable

So... just to keep in mind that the medications route does not have a particulrly high likelihood of helping you.
Thanks. The more I consider this option, the less enthusiastic I am towards it. You're right, side-effects are far from guaranteed and I may end up with others that I'm not looking for!
Guess it's on to plan... what am I on now, K? M? I know I passed B a long time ago.
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Default Aug 10, 2013 at 05:28 PM
  #29
Plan Z......radical acceptrance (a DBT - Dialectical Behavioral Therapy term)....it is what it is......don't stress or worry about it & don't focus on it......find more important & interesting things to focus your thoughts on & get on with your life. It's only our society that has made sex such a huge part of everyone's life & having to define their sexuality.......people who don't like labels have sure taken to having labels on sexuality...IMO.

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Default Aug 10, 2013 at 05:42 PM
  #30
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Plan Z......radical acceptrance (a DBT - Dialectical Behavioral Therapy term)....it is what it is......don't stress or worry about it & don't focus on it......find more important & interesting things to focus your thoughts on & get on with your life. It's only our society that has made sex such a huge part of everyone's life & having to define their sexuality.......people who don't like labels have sure taken to having labels on sexuality...IMO.
DBT's Radical Acceptance sounds FAR better as an approach than the medication route. It has no side effects.
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Default Aug 10, 2013 at 10:15 PM
  #31
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Plan Z......radical acceptrance (a DBT - Dialectical Behavioral Therapy term)....it is what it is......don't stress or worry about it & don't focus on it......find more important & interesting things to focus your thoughts on & get on with your life. It's only our society that has made sex such a huge part of everyone's life & having to define their sexuality.......people who don't like labels have sure taken to having labels on sexuality...IMO.
Thank you for your advice.
Radical Acceptance. I've tried it, or at least as close as you can get. I've tried innumerable times to just shrug it off. To just say: "This is me. I don't have to like it, but maybe I'll just deal with it." It never works, not for long anyway. I am infallibly compelled to try and wholly abstain from my sexual impulses, if not outright destroy them.

It's so... difficult. To describe what I'm dealing with to someone who's normal. My own father simply and fundamentally cannot comprehended the way I feel, not that he tries very hard. While my mother understandably prefers not really talk about the subject. Not that I'm overly keen to spill he beans in my sexual in and out with my parents, mind you.
Acceptance is just so not an option for me because it's so soundly against who I am. I know that doesn't really make a ton of sense; biologically speaking, sex couldn't be more a part of who I am. There has never once been a time in my life when I could have been OK with this. Hell, I can remember the feelings that hit me like a freight train after my first wet dream. I can tell you that they were not pleasant.
Metaphors are awkward and mine are usually very disproportionate but the only way I know to describe what it's like is to compare accepting my sexuality to someone being asked to just accept the truly dark parts of themselves.
Like a bully being told that it's fine to hurt people, to make them cry; that bad **** happens and we just just accept these impulses as healthy parts of ourselves. There's that disproportion again, but that's really what it feel like to me.
I cannot at the same time not consciously fight my sexuality and feel like I'm being a good person.

Sex has made me feel a lot of things. It's made me want to hurt myself, it's made me sick. it's made me angry, and it's made me depressed.
Happiness? Contentment? Pleasure? Love? These are things that my sexuality has never made me feel in any capacity.

My old therapist might have been trying to move towards just what you suggest. She was trying for cognitive behavioral therapy with me. Having me try to analyse the ins and outs of why I viewed my own sexuality with such disdain. It didn't help all too much, though I suppose it was better than nothing.
I could listen to the logic behind why I shouldn't feel the way I do all day. It doesn't change how I feel about it. I can't just go on and accept this thing inside of me because every single time I act on it or start to think that it's alright for me to so, I feel like I've allowed myself to become a monster. And I just can't live with myself feeling like that.

I just don't know what to do anymore. My new therapist is a few twigs short of a full branch. The whole medication thing was the most sound of her many far-fetched solutions. She's just not trying to understand how this affects me on more than a superficial level. As such, I won't be seeing more after my next session.
Maybe I'll find a better therapist, maybe I won't. And I'm still in the exact same limbo I was years ago.

Sorry for the wall of text. I'm just having a rough time of it at the moment and this thread is about the only place I really have to vent and look for outside perspective.
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Default Aug 11, 2013 at 12:50 AM
  #32
Have you ever tried to just think of yourself as a mammal?

If you think of yourself as a mammal, then you would get:

1) sexual impulses are normal since mammals have them
2) the metaphoric thinking that makes you believe that you are a monster would go away since mammals do not think in terms of metaphors
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Default Aug 11, 2013 at 04:21 AM
  #33
For not likeing sex, you sure spend a lot of time thinking about how much you don't like it.

I left my stbxh 6 years ago & actually lived separated under the same roof for 13 years before that because I was trapped financially in the marriage. When I got out & after these 6 years, I can look back & really understand why having sex with him during the beginning 19 years was so disgusting.....because I have finally come to understand that there was NO LOVE from the beginning. For me, sex is ONLY an expression of love between 2 people otherwise, it's a disgusting act that much of the rest of society has chosen to think of as recreation rather than re-creation. I have my beliefs & they are NOT UP FOR DEBATE because they are HOW I BELIEF & THAT ISN"T GOING TO CHANGE (so don't even bother trying to go there with me).

Basically, your T was right...you need to know WHY you think the way you think....I know what my feelings are based on & I have a complete understanding of why I feel the way I feel about it.......

Sex hasn't been a part of my life for so many years, & I don't even bother thinking about it.....I have so many activities in my life that are fulfilling that TBH, I don't have time to bother thinking about it or allowing my disgusting feelings about it to even bother entering my mind......when I finally get divorced, & unless a mirical happens that I meet a guy who I would ever really feel like getting married to, sex will NEVER be a part of my life again & there isn't a part of me that cares about that or actually takes any time to really even think about it until your discussion came up here......so the amount of time & energy that you spend of focusing on your dislike for it just doesn't make sense in my own mind when it's something that is never even on my mind.....& it doesn't bother me that it isn't.

Just as since I have never met a person who I am truly in love with to prove to myself that my feeling of disgust would go away when/if I would ever meet this person but know what I believe to be true.......

You also have not met a person who you are truly in love with to prove that you would not actually have your feeling of disgust go away if/when that would ever happen....you also hold it only as how you believe it would be, but you haven't actually ever proved it by finding that person who you truly love. Maybe your feeling of disgust would be overridden by the LOVE for the person. Honestly we never do really KNOW unless that actual occasion should arise in our lives to prove one way or another.....otherwise it's just exists in how we believe it would be.

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Default Aug 11, 2013 at 06:48 PM
  #34
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For not likeing sex, you sure spend a lot of time thinking about how much you don't like it.
No argument there. Although, I would say that's not quite right. It would be more accurate to say that I hate myself for liking sex. I hope that makes sense.

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I left my stbxh 6 years ago & actually lived separated under the same roof for 13 years before that because I was trapped financially in the marriage. When I got out & after these 6 years, I can look back & really understand why having sex with him during the beginning 19 years was so disgusting.....because I have finally come to understand that there was NO LOVE from the beginning. For me, sex is ONLY an expression of love between 2 people otherwise, it's a disgusting act that much of the rest of society has chosen to think of as recreation rather than re-creation. I have my beliefs & they are NOT UP FOR DEBATE because they are HOW I BELIEF & THAT ISN"T GOING TO CHANGE (so don't even bother trying to go there with me).
I'm truly sorry to hear about your difficulties and I sincerely hope you are to move forward in a direction that makes you happy.
In a way, you've just hit the nail on the head. Expect, I'm almost the exact opposite. Whenever I think about sex, looking at sexual content, or act on my sexual impulses I am afterwards slammed with a sledgehammer of self-hatred and rage. Funny enough, how I feel can always be summarized more or less in the words you've got capitalized in the above quote.
I'm always floored by how un-loving I feel for allowing myself to think that sex is something to be accepted and embraced. I'm very much like you in that my beliefs are unshakable and not up for debate. I find no trace of love or affection in the realm of sexuality.

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Basically, your T was right...you need to know WHY you think the way you think....I know what my feelings are based on & I have a complete understanding of why I feel the way I feel about it.......
You're absolutely right and I thank you for it. I don't think the way forward is about taking drugs and medicine to cover up the problem but rather in better understanding not only why I think the way I do but why I feel the way I do.
I have a couple of theories myself and unfortunately my current T isn't quite the right person for me to be sharing these thoughts feelings with. So I'm officially looking for yet another new T. Opening up this awkward subject with yet another totally stranger isn't what I'd call appealing but I've got to believe
that the benefits of working through this will be worth the effort.

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Just as since I have never met a person who I am truly in love with to prove to myself that my feeling of disgust would go away when/if I would ever meet this person but know what I believe to be true.......

You also have not met a person who you are truly in love with to prove that you would not actually have your feeling of disgust go away if/when that would ever happen....you also hold it only as how you believe it would be, but you haven't actually ever proved it by finding that person who you truly love. Maybe your feeling of disgust would be overridden by the LOVE for the person. Honestly we never do really KNOW unless that actual occasion should arise in our lives to prove one way or another.....otherwise it's just exists in how we believe it would be.
Again, you're right. But while it's true that I haven't met someone that special in my life, I just can't every imagine myself using anybody that way. Especially someone I might come to love. For me to love someone, to really truly love them, would mean that I would never ever want to use them in a sexual way. Because to me, that would be one of the most unloving things I could ever do to this person.
I believe that love, real love, does exist. But it's different to each person. And to me, sex and love are polar opposites. I cannot have one and also have the other.
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Default Aug 11, 2013 at 06:54 PM
  #35
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For me to love someone, to really truly love them, would mean that I would never ever want to use them in a sexual way. Because to me, that would be one of the most unloving things I could ever do to this person.
I believe that love, real love, does exist. But it's different to each person. And to me, sex and love are polar opposites. I cannot have one and also have the other.
What about being in love with a person who does not share your views on sex? Who wants to be loved sexually?

Do you see the difference between being loved sexually and being used in a sexual way?

When you say that you would not want to use your hypothetical lover in a sexual way, you are not even considering their perspective. From their perspective, possibly, you would not be USING THEM IN A SEXUAL WAY but LOVING THEM IN A SEXUAL WAY. Do they get to have a say? Or, do you determine everything just by thinking about your perspective?
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Default Aug 11, 2013 at 11:52 PM
  #36
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My old therapist might have been trying to move towards just what you suggest. She was trying for cognitive behavioral therapy with me. Having me try to analyse the ins and outs of why I viewed my own sexuality with such disdain. It didn't help all too much, though I suppose it was better than nothing. ...

I just don't know what to do anymore. My new therapist is a few twigs short of a full branch. The whole medication thing was the most sound of her many far-fetched solutions. She's just not trying to understand how this affects me on more than a superficial level. As such, I won't be seeing more after my next session.
Maybe I'll find a better therapist, maybe I won't. And I'm still in the exact same limbo I was years ago.
Thinking more about it... the therapist is not qualified to offer the medication route - she does not have the credentials/license to practice medicine that would give rights to prescribe. So, she is basically conjecturing. And, I agree with you, is being superficial.

It would take a lot of fine-tuning to find a drug for you that would fit the bill without causing intolerable side effects. The thing is, modern psychiatry is still a shot in the dark. there is some research that is promising to predict response to medications based on some tests, possibly genetic, but this is all in an exploratory phase. In practical terms, it is still a shot in the dark, EVEN a propos of intended effects of medication. She is suggesting that you take medications hoping to "luck out" on "catching" a libido lessening side effect. And, in the process, not "catching" anything else objectionable.

And the chances of all of that happening exactly as she plans are... not zero, but close to zero.

Plus, medications would need to be tried and tested and possibly changed until you arrive at the station she envisions for you. So you would spend a lot of time in that process, hoping to get results but not getting them immediately.

To sum up, I think that the therapist dodges the issue because she is not competent enough to deal with your level of complexity.

Being not competent enough is not a crime, per se, if one acknowledges that one is not competent enough.

It seems that she tries to cover up her incompetence by coming up with the medication route solution. I think she did a disservice to you by creating the hope for the medication route - in reality, it seems that the medication route is a chimera, or, at least a last resort measure after psychological approaches have been all exhausted to no avail.

So if that chimera was the MOST sound of her far-fetched approaches, then after about those LESS sound proposals she came up?..

There are a lot of approaches that are neither CBT nor medications. Have you tried those? CBT+medications do not exhaust the list. Are you in UK? I think CBT is provided by the NHS.
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Default Aug 12, 2013 at 02:48 AM
  #37
Did these thoughts arise before you ever explored porn or have you /always/ felt this way?

If your only experience with sex is through porn then I can /totally/ understand your view point. Porn doesn't really portray a loving and consenting relationship between two adults. Porn isn't focused on the emotional connection between the two individuals. Im in a pretty much sexless relationship, but we do engage occasionally and its an awesome experience because its consenting.

When you binge on porn do you often spend time trying to find novelties? Do you end up looking at things that are past softcore stuff?
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Default Aug 12, 2013 at 10:16 AM
  #38
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What about being in love with a person who does not share your views on sex? Who wants to be loved sexually?

Do you see the difference between being loved sexually and being used in a sexual way?

When you say that you would not want to use your hypothetical lover in a sexual way, you are not even considering their perspective. From their perspective, possibly, you would not be USING THEM IN A SEXUAL WAY but LOVING THEM IN A SEXUAL WAY. Do they get to have a say? Or, do you determine everything just by thinking about your perspective?
The idea scares me and I'm afraid I don't really have an answer. It's for this very reason that I have always either made an effort to avoid anyone who seemed interested in me or avoid anyone I was interested in myself. I cannot express affection in a sexual way, but at the same time I do understand and accept that most people would want sex in the light you're talking about.
I've avoided relationships my whole life because I don't want to be backed into a corner where I would have to choose between doing something I'd feel terrible about for the sake of a hypothetical partner or being a selfish jerk for sticking to my own morals.
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Location: North Carolina
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Default Aug 12, 2013 at 10:22 AM
  #39
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamster-bamster View Post
Thinking more about it... the therapist is not qualified to offer the medication route - she does not have the credentials/license to practice medicine that would give rights to prescribe. So, she is basically conjecturing. And, I agree with you, is being superficial.

It would take a lot of fine-tuning to find a drug for you that would fit the bill without causing intolerable side effects. The thing is, modern psychiatry is still a shot in the dark. there is some research that is promising to predict response to medications based on some tests, possibly genetic, but this is all in an exploratory phase. In practical terms, it is still a shot in the dark, EVEN a propos of intended effects of medication. She is suggesting that you take medications hoping to "luck out" on "catching" a libido lessening side effect. And, in the process, not "catching" anything else objectionable.

And the chances of all of that happening exactly as she plans are... not zero, but close to zero.

Plus, medications would need to be tried and tested and possibly changed until you arrive at the station she envisions for you. So you would spend a lot of time in that process, hoping to get results but not getting them immediately.

To sum up, I think that the therapist dodges the issue because she is not competent enough to deal with your level of complexity.

Being not competent enough is not a crime, per se, if one acknowledges that one is not competent enough.

It seems that she tries to cover up her incompetence by coming up with the medication route solution. I think she did a disservice to you by creating the hope for the medication route - in reality, it seems that the medication route is a chimera, or, at least a last resort measure after psychological approaches have been all exhausted to no avail.

So if that chimera was the MOST sound of her far-fetched approaches, then after about those LESS sound proposals she came up?..

There are a lot of approaches that are neither CBT nor medications. Have you tried those? CBT+medications do not exhaust the list. Are you in UK? I think CBT is provided by the NHS.

She suggested everything from talking to celibate priests to seriously trying to convince me to become a crossfit competitor in the hope that I would become so absorbed in it that I wouldn't "have time" for sexual activity. Even though I made it clear several times that I'm not very religious and not very keen on becoming a hulk. It was very outlandish suggestion like these that made me feel like she wasn't good for what I was trying to do. Namely: not just solve the problem, but understand why it's a problem in the first place.
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AppalachianAxis has no updates.
 
Member Since: Sep 2012
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 156
10 yr Member
45 hugs
given
Default Aug 12, 2013 at 10:31 AM
  #40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Confusedinomicon View Post
Did these thoughts arise before you ever explored porn or have you /always/ felt this way?

If your only experience with sex is through porn then I can /totally/ understand your view point. Porn doesn't really portray a loving and consenting relationship between two adults. Porn isn't focused on the emotional connection between the two individuals. Im in a pretty much sexless relationship, but we do engage occasionally and its an awesome experience because its consenting.

When you binge on porn do you often spend time trying to find novelties? Do you end up looking at things that are past softcore stuff?

I have always felt this way.

The Porn come into play much later and while it certainly hasn't helped I don't think it's the root of why I am the way I am.

As to your second question, it is my shame to admit that when I do binge on porn it is almost always not one's typical "vanilla" fare. Nothing extreme, illegal, or anything I'd even call hardcore. In fact, that kind of stuff personally really isn't my bag. I just tend to gravitate towards things that are a bit... odd for most people.
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