Living with Sexual Anorexia

that is pathetic; I am sorry you had to go through with that. But you already fired her...

This is in response to Confused...'s suggestion on a concurrent thread.

I think it is a terrific idea.

For myself - I cannot tolerate cuddling and holding hands because those things make me think that I am being a child. I can cuddle with kids... cats... but not men. Same for holding hands - actually, I dated a guy from Oklahoma who was nice in every respect. We did light kissing, initiated by me. It was nice, indeed. But then, leaving a restaurant, he took my hand, and we walked. He is very tall and I am 5'5'', so it was awkward in purely physical terms, plus, it felt very awkward to me. And then I invited him over for a meal with a plan to try to get sexual with him (he was my first "dating" partner - all previous men from the past appeared in the course of ordinary living as I had never formally "dated" - he was the first). I just could not bring myself to it. I excused myself citing the need to call my son over something urgent, lightly kissed him goodbye, and showed him the door. After that we had meals at public places only.

He is very sweet, able, open - a great guy. So I analyzed what prevented me from trying to be more intimate. Analyzed for a long time. Then I figured it out - it weirded me out BIG TIME to hold hands with him. I did hold hands with my 3rd grade love, sure, but I (and the boy - we shared a desk in the classroom) was in 3rd grade. Never between 3rd grade and age 42 did I hold hands with a guy - why would I? I am not a child anymore.

So I wrote to him about it. I acknowledged that I do see couples holding hands on the street, and, do read online that holding hands is either a milestone on the road towards building a new relationship, or, a part of ongoing relationships in America. So I acknowledged that fact, but said that for me - no way. No way because I am an adult woman. It felt ***amazing*** in 3rd grade, yes, but I am not in third grade anymore.

He responded that indeed he was unsure why I was not more into relating with him, and was concerned that he might have said something awkward (he is an Aspie so he gets concerned pretty easily fearing that he is either not picking up on social signals, or, not communicating correctly). He never imagined something like this would cause problems, but then again we are from different cultures.

So, thinking out loud about AppalachianAxis' predicament - if holding hands feels so childish and non-sexual to me, then, perhaps, it could also feel completely non-sexual to an asexual person. Until you try, you would not know. Until I got into that hand holding thing with this guy from Oklahoma, I had not known that I would be weirded out by hand holding so much. Until you experience certain things for yourself, by yourself, you might not be able to predict your reactions to them.

So I've quit my old Therapist, she wasn't money well spent, but I have been doing some thinking on this subject and I think I've got a few ideas on why I am the way I am and why I feel the way I do.
I think the reasons behind my feelings towards my own sexuality can be attributed to two parts:

I've posted before that I was never OK with my own sexuality and have been consciously fighting against it since I was first capable of sexual feeling. I'm speculating that I have probably always had some kind of orgasm disorder. Dormant until I hit puberty and present ever since. Whatever post-orgasm chemical release that takes place for most people that makes them feel all good and happy just doesn't happen for me. The biological impulse to act on my sex drive remains, in spite of how it makes me feel. Thus, I am addicted to compulsively doing something that makes me feel terrible.

Then there's the more psychological side to the issue. To put it shortly and bluntly: I don't want to grow up. No not in any Peter Pan kind of way, no obsession over "eternal youth" or anything like that. It's just that my idea of the ideal relationship, my concept of real meaningful love has been gleaned and molded by the same things that have had a major impact in how I shape who I am and how I live my life.
Namely, fictional adventure stories. I took a lot of inspiration from those growing up. I got into hiking and camping because I felt like going on adventures and living a life that mirrored that of my favorite fictional idols, almost all of whom are children or adolescents who undergo some sort of a coming-of-age adventure. When I graduated high school, I took a gap year to spend five months in the woods hiking the Appalachian Trail as my own personal kind of "quest."
It sounds sappy to write but I think part of me caves the kind of honest and simple kind of love one only sees in adventure stories and wholesome family films. "Disney Love" I suppose you could call it but sans all the singing, I'm a terrible singer. Maybe if I had that kind of innocent platonic loving relationship with someone for a good while, I might be able to "grow up" in that regard and see sex as an extension of affection. That's still a big maybe though as I can't ever seeing myself viewing sex in a positive light given how utterly horrible it makes me feel.

I'm not really too sure what to do with all of this. But I have a better grasp and understanding on the reasons behind why I feel this way than I ever have and I suppose that's something right?

I just want to say thanks again to anyone who takes the time to read and respond to my posts. With no Therapist to talk with, this is the one place I've got to process what's going through my head.

two things: look up anhedonic ejaculation. It is not what you describe, but it is in that direction. Anhedonic ejaculation means that a man has a libido, can get erections, can perform, but feels no joy from the orgasm. He ejaculates sperm fine, but there is no release for him. I know somebody who has it (in his case it is a side effect of effexor), and from what he describes it is quite sad. But it is not what you describe - you describe a negative feeling while he describes a neutral feeling (hence An-Hedonia). So your problem is much worse, but still look up that condition and see what people write about it - maybe you will relate to the chemical problems they describe. At least it is worth comparing notes with the guys who suffer from it.

and, go hiking, camping, sign up for Stone Age camps, go on extreme vacations if you can afford it (those where you traverse a desert riding a horse or help deliver medical care to children in third world countries) and bond with the people you will meet on such trips and just see where it takes you. Sex inside a tent might one day be your thing. Plus, experiencing risk together would likely raise the mutual attractiveness of people who share risky endeavors.

You probably know that better than I do, but the love stories we read in books never entail two people messaging each other, getting to know each other, talking about their issues, concerns, and expectations, and, ultimately, planning the details of their sexual encounters which they put on their online calendars one month in advance just as they schedule entertainment and doctor visits. No - they entail feuds between the two family clans, eloping, rescuing damsels in distress from monsters and dragons, and other such things. In other words, risk, danger, and obstacles. This is probably what you are looking for, deep down (based on your report on what shaped your worldview), so you should seek moderate amounts of risk in your life.

Thought I'd pop in and post a quick update.

Since I quit my old T I haven't really been very proactive in seeking out additional sources of "help."
I honestly don't really know what I expected therapy to do for me in the first place anyway so this is not a huge loss.

I've been trying hard to cut the pornography and masturbation I'm happy to say I've had a lot of success on that front.
I binge occasionally but the gaps between indulgence get wider and wider every time. I attribute this to the fact that I'm trying very hard to not beat myself up about it every time I make a slip-up. I figure the more attention I give this issue, the more sway it has over my day-to-day life. So I try my best to just shrug it off when it does happen and focus on all the reasons I should like myself instead of brooding on this one reason that makes me feel like crap.

Right now I'm pretty much just waiting for the ticking time bomb to go off. Waiting for the inevitable situation when I'll be forced to tell my close friends the real reason why I don't engage in relationships the same way they do. I'll hopefully be moving out of the house and into university here soon so it'll have to come up sooner or later.

Honestly I'm feeling kindda optimistic about this. I've got some very good friends and I don't expect this to change to much when this awkward little detail about me shows itself. I predict some shrugs and the general feeling of "huh, that's odd but whatever," then getting right back to the way we were.

At the risk of being a bit repetitive I would again like to thank everybody who takes the time to post advice or opinions on this thread of mine. I appreciate every one of them. Thanks!

Hey guys, I hate to double post, but I didn't think my rambling merited a whole new thread.

In a complete turnaround from my above post, turns out I'm not doing so well after all.

That old and all-too-familiar feeling of just downright loathing just recently came crashing down around me once again. I can't stand feeling this way and I have no idea what to do but clearly I can't just go on trying to pretend that I can just live with this, this "natural" urge, this sex drive, this thing that I despise so much.
I'm seriously considering looking into types of pills or other mediations that would get rid of it, or at least dull the damn thing.
The only other option is trying to go to therapy.... again. I just don't know if I can do that over and over. My first T was great, but really all my sessions with her didn't accomplish much more than making me feel a bit better after talking for an hour every other week. And my most recent T was a complete misfire, just awful.
Then there's the fact that I'm really just not sure what I expect to get out of therapy. A magic solution that would make everything all right would be ideal, but that's just not how life works.

I know medication is probably a terrible "solution" to this issue, I've said so before in this very thread. But sometimes I'm willing to try anything to make this go away.
I know Therapy is still likely the best solution, I just don't want it to go nowhere for a third time in a row.

I can't imagine what advice I could ask for beyond what people have already offered but this forums is the only place I have to vent.

1. I'm an Appalachian too.
And now on to business. I can understand how you feel. I have a very active sex drive but I don't like it. My antidepressants nixed it a good bit thankfully. But I know where mine comes from. I was raped, tortured and prostituted for my childhood. It took me a long time to stop hating myself for having urges. I just don't associate sex with positive things. Masturbating sent me into deep depressions. Being with someone just sucks for me. I want to feel beautiful and sexy and everything others get from sex but I don't think I will. It sucks. I'm a very social person but dating at my age is all about sex for the guys I've met. I'm in college too. I've gotten to the point where masturbating doesn't affect me as bad but being with someone is always a bad experience. I've tried to make it about their pleasure since mine can't be taken care of but it just doesn't work very well. You might try finding someone like me who is scarred in that area. Or look into the fact that you might have repressed a memory that is at the root of this. Good luck

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Something struck me when I read this over again.....is that you have it backwards.....& so does our society that keeps trying to brainwash everyone that it's backwards.

In reality.....sex is an expression of love.....love isn't found by having sex.

Realized this was why I wasn't ever sexually attracted to my H because even before we got married he had attitude problems that kept me from feeling love for him. I do not believe in that "love is blind" crap. Yes, there is that sexual attraction that happens that can pull us into the relationship where LOVE grows. But when we expect sex to bring to us a loving relationship, we will most always be sadly disappointed.

Sex is about expressing love between 2 people.....& when that is missing all it's about is fulfilling one's own pleasure & maybe on the side fulfulling the other person's also if one really cares that much.......I would rather have the completely meaningful expression of LOVE & can honestly do without sex until I ever (if ever) find myself is a relationship that is all about LOVE.

Wow. Didn't expect this thread to return from the grave.

First allow me to offer my deepest and more sincere condolences for your own troubles. I know it's not much but hey, there it is.

You describe the way I feel in almost every way save for the fact the my hatred of my own sexuality has always just kind of... been there. I can think of no underlying "cause" for it. It's just a part of my own unique psychology. I've always felt it was bad in the same way I've always felt it was bad to hurt people or take things that aren't yours. Sex has always represented the antithesis of everything I find to be wholesome and good.

Both therapists I have seen have also asked if I thought there was some repressed memory that was causing me to feel the way I do. However, I feel very certain that there is none. And even if there was, I can't imagine it would change the way I feel. I wouldn't like to let something like that so drastically alter my personal morals.
If fact I remember quite clearly being sexually "exploited" when I was young. I use the term in quotations because it's such a non-issue to me. A kid in my neighborhood hit puberty while I was till a few years away from it. I guess you could say he was "exploring" and had me there to further that along. He moved away after a while. I never even gave it much thought. He was a kid he didn't really understand what he was doing and neither did I. No animosity. No harm done.

Thanks for taking the time to reply and again I wish you all the best in finding your own resolution.

I absolutely agree that love isn't found by having sex. Although seeing sex as an expression of love is something I've just always felt reviled about. I should be able to let someone know I love them completely without resorting to this (to me) degrading and repulsive act.

I hope you find the relationship you're looking for.
Thanks for the reply!

Have you talked to a GP? You said you suspected a brain chemistry issue in that your orgasms result in a release of wrong chemicals. This is something to discuss with an MD, whether a pdoc or a GP, but not a therapist. Maybe there is some rare disorder that can be compensated for with medications. At least it is worth looking into this.

Another idea for you is to take the paradoxical approach in the hopes of getting to the point of desensitization. In other words, make it a goal to have as many orgasms as possible.

Thanks Hamster.

I haven't brought it up with a medical professional just yet. Not sure if I'd ever be able to. I know that it's their job to hear about these kinds of issues and to be professional. I just always have trouble talking about it or even bring it up, and that's with people I know. I prefer to just kind of bury the issue, socially speaking. I haven't even spoken about it with my own parents for many months now. I regret ever telling them about it in the first place, so this suits me just fine.
As for the possibility that I have some kind of absurdly rare medical condition, I'm sure it's possible. But I think it's a very slim chance. I've done a ton, and I mean a ton, of research on my own time into this possibility and have found no medical condition that fits me. I can't help but feel that if I did feel the need to tell a doctor about this, he or she would recommend me straight back to a therapist.

As for this paradoxical approach you talk about, I think I get what you're suggesting but I don't think it's something that could work for me. Could I try it? Sure. But I know from all the times when I have tied to compromise with myself that I will always be saying to myself that I can do better. That I can beat this thing. I'll certainly keep your suggestion in mind though.
I'm actually trying for the exact opposite at the moment. No pornography, no masturbation. It's only been a couple of days, but I feel great. I'm just happier and more optimistic all around when I make a conscious effort to purge all things sexual from my life. I feel like a better person, like I deserve to be happy, does that make sense? I don't know how long it can last, already that horribly familiar nagging feeling is tugging at the back of my mind when ever I have time alone. It's not like I haven't tried this kind of "cold-turkey" method before. I can't say with certainty that I won't start back up again and just wallow in my own self-hatred like I've done so many times before, but I'm going to enjoy my time on top while I can!

I must sound like a broken record at this point, but thanks once again to all the people who have taken the time to read and comment on this thread. I've pretty much given up on therapy at this point, so it's nice to have a place to discuss this.

I am quite satisfied living as you describe. Like I said, I left my H 6+ years ago & had actually separated under the same roof 13 years before that.

I don't need a T to tell me what my values are & what I feel is the right way for me to live......& no, I am NOT looking for any relationship ever. If one would happen to come & hit me out of the blue great, but I haven't even finished the divorce yet & that is to protect myself financially from the pathetic irresponsible person I married. I know this choice is what is acceptable to me given my beliefs & those standards I will NEVER lower.

Accept who & what you are NOW......in all reality, you don't know what you might encounter in the future & how your emotions will respond even though you think you know yourself perfectly now. There are situations in our future that we would never think we would react in certain ways & what a surprise things end up being to us even when WE KNOW we would never do that.....that saying 'never say never' is what I have learned over my 60 years of life.

I never believed that I would pick up & leave everything I had behind & move 2100 miles away to a place where I didn't know anyone in order to get back my life.

I never believed that I would have ever tried to commit suicide.....went for over 6 years with more attempts than I can even remember.

I don't believe that I will ever find someone that I truly LOVE & who I would ever get married to again & ever have sex again.....but like with the other things.....we don't know what is in our future & how we will respond at the time......no matter how well we think we know ourselves.

Yes, sure, if you have done a ton of research and not found any mention of a rare disorder whose description matches your suffering, then there is no such thing. And the doctors would refer to therapy indeed. If you were an older man with a garden variety impotence, then they'd advise and prescribe for you...

It's amazing what a bit more poking around can do.
Just discovered something called "Post-Coital Depression." It's not complicated, after sex, PCD brings people down instead of putting them up on cloud nine, as if the case when most people have sex. Sounds pretty damn familiar. In all the articles I've read, the depression experienced by people with PCD sounds pretty mild. My own emotional fallout is pretty damn extreme so I'm not sure if this is or isn't what I have, if it's just a small factor in what I have, or if I just have a seriously extreme case.

But hey, it's something.

It is something. I didn't know about the pcd. I did know and I think I told you about anhedonic ejaculation. It seems to be ranked like this:

1) anhedonic ejaculation is a neutral experience of blah, as opposed to the expected euphoric experience

2) PCD is a mildly negative response to male ejaculation.

3) Your condition involves a severely negative response to ejaculation.

If you agree that all of those are on the same axis, with yours being the worst case, you can maybe research what people with milder versions have done to help themselves and try those approaches, on the assumption that they might help you as well, though to a lesser extent.

My goodness, there are all sorts of forms of suffering you hear about nowadays.

Hey AppalachianAxis. I'm sexually anorectic myself and can really relate to your situation.

I'm a 30 year old male. I haven't been in a romantic relationship or had sexual intercourse. I have a lot of toxic shame about sex, my sexuality, sexual feelings/urges, etc. My family was really sex-negative. Due to the negative messages they conveyed about sex, I grew up thinking/believing that sex was bad, shameful, immoral, dirty, wrong, etc.

I'm also addicted to pornography and masturbation. While they are a problem, I believe that my main issue is sexual anorexia, and the porn and masturbation are the way I self-medicate to deal with the pain and suffering from not being able to form intimate relationships and have a healthy outlet for my sexuality.

I think can safely say I know how you feel. I'm sorry to hear about your own personal issues and I hope you can find some resolution.

I highly, highly, suggest trying sex therapy if you haven't already. I was morbidly anxious about going to a sex therapist but I was also desperate enough to try. I've had a few sessions over the last couple of weeks and it has been life-changing. It helps in a way I can't describe to even just get all the negative and embarrassing stuff off of your chest and telling it to someone who totally understands.

I was wondering about that.....

Since your thinking had been so far back in your life......as children we don't just choose to think certain ways.....out thoughts are LEARNED by either the positive experiences or negative experiences around us & by what other people teach us to think....you thinking starting so young had to have come from someone close to you or you saw things growing up that made you think disgusting thoughts about it.

As children we don't just make up our thoughts out of the blue & for no reason.

Glad that you are getting somewhere in your therapy now......good for you....but you also don't have to learn that sex is nothing but recreation. It has it's proper place....in a marriage between 2 people who love each other!