Why are men threatened by sexually empowered women?

Okay, I want in this discussion but after four pages of posts, I'm a bit overwhelmed. I'm going to go back to the first page and give this a whirl... a little superfluous of me to just post this but it might take a couple of hours...

I'm not real fluent in how to do a trigger warning, but the icon is up there for my second paragraph in which I describe some childhood sexual abuse without a whole lot of detail.

Let me start by saying that women are stupid. Now, I don't for a moment believe that, but therein lies the power of a generalized statement. Certainly some people are stupid, and that includes some men and some women. When you begin a thread with, I have noticed that 'men feel'...and follow up the thought with 'men feel so completely threatened'.. you are talking about me - and you are wrong. You've unjustly accused me of behavior I find reprehensible and seem to imply that any rejection of your premise is simply ignorance and/or denial.

I, as a man, have never been "the one calling all the shots". Heck, for that matter, I didn't call the shots as a boy either. I began this life being smothered till I stopped breathing three times before I was a year old by a mother who chose to use my infant face as a sex toy. I've then spent the next half century listening to how good I have it because I'm a guy. So, as you might imagine, I've got some rather strong feelings about that claim.

This was the first time you mentioned that this is not all men, and I think it's a bit late but I nevertheless want to acknowledge it - thanks. Btw,when I say that I think it is a bit late, it is only because the premise has already been set that it's an 'all male' thing. Walking it back at this point is the logical (argument) equivalent of changing horses in the middle of the stream. Anyway, to your point...

Every instance of inequality between the sexes is a sword that cuts both ways. When you said, "...every too often you see older, dominant men thinking that all women are there to please them, and if they (for example) wear clothing that is considered 'revealing' they are asking for sexually suggestive favors." you failed to acknowledge that every too often you see younger, sexually attractive women thinking that all men are there to be toyed with, used, and manipulated, and if they (for example) wear clothing that can capture the man's attention, they can use the implied promise of sex to get him to serve her.

Please know that some women do this as a lifestyle. Please know that some women do this as unconsciously as some men unconsciously enjoy their own privilege. Few female servers, bartenders, casino dealers spend much time thinking about the fact that they are making a $100 a night more than their male counterparts by flirting, winking, sashaying, whatevering and then going into the employee break room or the back of the restaurant or bar and denigrate the very men they are playing to send their child to private school whereas their male counterpart is taking a second job to send his.

I certainly do not want to speak for all men, but I think that those men who do have a problem with feminism, do so for very different reasons. Even among feminists, the word 'feminism' means different things to different people. So John might have a problem with an aspect of Mary's definition of feminism - and Lori calls herself a feminist and doesn't buy into Mary's definition at all. John doesn't have a problem with Lori's version of feminism at all. When definitions change and the equality goalposts keep changing depending on who you are talking to, it can become frustrating for anyone.

Well I took it as not implying literally all men from the start (as a male myself - albeit rather fluid). It does actually say at the end of the first post "Why are some men so threatened by female empowerment/feminism?" and I saw the actual title and opening statements as more of a topic starter than blanket statement, with the ending question the fuller summary of an actual position. I guess I didn't feel threatened by it because I agree that some men are threatened by feminism, personally I have always seen it as an opportunity for personal growth and social change, but not all men want to, or know how to, give up their privilege or just don't value women. It's great that some do and I agree that should be acknowledged too, I don't see anyone not doing that though.

Not sure what you are getting at here. Yes, we saw it differently. You took it as you imagined she meant it, as did I.

You might be surprised to know that I can have a difference of opinion with someone without feeling threatened by what they say.

Some people are threatened by feminism. I don't think that there are more men that are threatened by it than there are women who feel threatened by it. But really, and this goes to a point that I was trying to make at one point in my post - there are those who would say (and I'm not one of them) that you are defending ArtChic with this post. They would then attack you for assuming that she needs defending by a man. Isn't she a smart, capable, articulate woman? What exactly are you saying anyway you patriarchal pig.

Feminism means different things to different people, and after a guy gets attacked by a woman like that, and she declares that she's doing it in the name of feminism...well, it's going to leave a bad taste in peoples mouths.

Just to be clear, I am 100% in favor of equality for men and women. I'm not in favor of beating people up to achieve that - not women, not men.

There are definitely different schools of feminist thought. I'm not really well versed in them. But I know that there are.

((((((Yagr)))))) I really appreciate you sharing this.

This is thoughtful, and I like it.

The thing I'd disagree with, is that some women do blame all men. I've seen it online a lot. Some women, take their problems, and well, deflect them and not just blame men for their problems, but they use the current feminist movement to hide behind. I witnessed this with a (ex)friend of mine. She lies, is manipulative, plays games with others, basically, she has issues of her own. She was raped more than once by men over her lifetime, and perhaps she has reason to hate them. She's called herself a misandrist before. I think though, generalizations are not usually helpful. There are actually a lot of good guys out there.

That being said, it's out there. Sexism is out there. Some women experience it still on a daily basis. All I know is I'm glad to live where I live (the US). It's not oppressive here. Not for me, anyway (though it might be for other women! I can't deny that!). If you respect me and are a good guy, I'll know it. If you have toxic male attitudes, I'll know that, too. Look at guys like Harvey Weinstein. It is out there. Even in Hollywood. But there are definitely just as terrible women out there, too.

I have more stories, by the way. I was sexually harassed by boys my age in the 6th grade. My first college boyfriend was a total tool. One thing I truly believe, is that we need to teach women, especially sensitive and shy women, that we are equal. That they have rights. Because for a long time, I didn't know I did. I don't really see these kinds of issues affecting some women, and I see it affecting other women a lot. To say its not there? Is inaccurate. But to blame it for everything and all things, especially in first world countries, is also inaccurate. We need to teach women and men, boys and girls, self respect, and how to respect others. I was brought up fearful, and it was used against me: "what are you going to do if so and so finds out," "you better do your homework or your teacher will be mad." I was brought up a people pleaser. Or maybe I was a people pleaser, and then it was used to my mother's advantage, so I evolved to really care what others thought and was very manipulatable. What I really needed was to be taught self love and self respect. Not to fear what people would think of me. Not to hate myself.

I do agree, that, like racism, like classism, like ableism, like ageism, sexism touches our world and life whether we know it or not. Women can definitely be abusers too though, most definitely and for sure. I think abuse and disrespect are interesting things. Sometimes people don't even know they're doing it or are not aware (men or women). Or care. Doesn't make it right though. And everybody's got an excuse.

I'm going to close this, by saying that even in Buddhism, one of my most favorite things, there is sexism (against women) and misogyny.

But to the great men out there. Please keep being you. It is greatly appreciated.

We all have different experiences in life, and they are all valid.

Thank you for this. I agree. I don't think all men are threatened. In fact, aren't many men turned on by women with power?

Okay, here's my question for the OP:

You speak in large generalities here. Where is this experience you speak of coming from? Who and where are these men that you say feel this way? Are they co-workers? Is this coming from men in your family who behave this way? Or is this just bloggers that you are reading who are writing with the attempt to write something that will be shocking and go viral?

If I speak from my own, personal experience with men it's that many of them appreciate powerful, competent women. When they hear of abuse that women have suffered, they are amazed and shocked at their fellow male's behavior, not supportive.

I have found, in my work experience, that powerful men may be just as abusive and powerful women. I know plenty of men who have been sexually harassed in the workplace by women in positions of power.

Older men, from the Matures and Baby Boomers, have different opinions of increasing female independence. I have found that, while supportive, they often aren't aware that their speech can still be somewhat oppressive, but they don't really mean any harm. For example, sometimes the words my grandfather would use to describe me as an independent woman were unintentionally derogatory, but he was fully supportive of me.

On the other hand, I have seen male colleagues beaten out for promotions by women whose only complaint was that they got beaten out by "some chick." I think that was a narrow-minded viewpoint, but more rare than I would say commonplace.

Millenial males that I know seem completely accustomed to the equality of men and women. Gen X men are afraid of women, lol, and feel dominated by them. I say this from my experience as a Gen X woman, and dating Gen X men. And as far as Millenials, I have many Millenial friends and colleagues. So these are my observations from the actual men that I know.

As you can see, it's widely varied. I don't think the entire male complex is threatened by women anymore than the entire White complex is threatened by minority equality.

Small groups of haters can be VERY loud, but it's not a majority opinion.

Seesaw

I think I made things very clear in this thread. I said "some men", not all. "#Metoo" has everything to do with what I'm asking. It doesn't necessarily have to do with the "0.01%" but any man who works with women and abused/harassed them.

I'm sorry you find this thread so confusing, but if you read through it all, it's all actually quite clear.

MY BLOG IS NOW CONVENIENTLY LOCATED HERE!!
[UPDATED: 4/30/2017]

LIFE IS TOO SHORT, TOO VALUABLE AND TOO PRECIOUS A THING TO WASTE!!

It comes from personal experience and reading about others' experiences on reputable news sources. These men who feel threatened are all over society. You just need to look is all.

I am NOT speaking about ALL men, but those who feel threatened by feminism and women being treated equally in the workplace.

Why is this so hard for people to understand?

MY BLOG IS NOW CONVENIENTLY LOCATED HERE!!
[UPDATED: 4/30/2017]

LIFE IS TOO SHORT, TOO VALUABLE AND TOO PRECIOUS A THING TO WASTE!!

That is a fetish and completely different from what this thread is about.

MY BLOG IS NOW CONVENIENTLY LOCATED HERE!!
[UPDATED: 4/30/2017]

LIFE IS TOO SHORT, TOO VALUABLE AND TOO PRECIOUS A THING TO WASTE!!

I don't see it as being a fetish. I think Seesaw brings up an interesting point. Can you elaborate Seesaw? I didn't know this. Sounds empowering. Archaic, are you talking about sexual power / domination? Or powerful women in general?

I get it.

I think this is just a difficult topic when you get so many people together and they have different backgrounds, experiences, perceptions, etc. I think this is a good discussion.

I am not talking about a fetish, and it's not separate since you are talking about male attitudes. I know plenty of men who simply find powerful women with dominant personalities to be attractive. This is not about BDSM. They are not threatened by powerful women at all.

How many men do you know IRL?

How is a type of personality preference a fetish?

I would agree if anyone was talking about dominatation and submission in the bedroom but nothing in what was said even implied it was about sexual relations at all.

But then can you elaborate on how this is a fetish? maybe I'm wrong, so I'd love to hear the details.

I think it is because of the title of the thread and the liberal use of the generalized 'men' throughout. But I understand now; thank you for clarifying.

I have seen many women, many of whom believe as you do, get angry at female co-workers who they see perpetuating the patriarchy by asking men to do things for them that they could do for themselves by playing the role of a weak woman and stroking his ego by telling him how he is so strong, or smart or... and yet they anger tends to be directed more at men than their fellow women. Rarely do I hear a feminist attack a woman who is playing such a game with equal venom.

Which segues nicely to this point: I think more men would be sold on the idea of supporting feminism if feminists would add to their fight issues such as women needing to register for the draft, equal parenting in family court, and assorted things like this. When women fight for rights but not for those rights that would be distasteful, the fight for equality comes across disingenuous.

Here's another thought that might be germane to this discussion: I just got off the streets after being homeless for five months. I have heard many agencies, social workers, and case managers rail against the plight of homeless women on the streets who have to trade sex for a roof over their head for the night. Now I'll be the last guy to support that BUT...

When it is below zero, the wind is blowing, your health is deteriorating and you simply can't spend one more night outside in the elements, the woman is faced with a horrible choice - she can risk her health and her life by staying outside again OR she can talk some guy into putting her up where she faces the real possibility that in the middle of the night he is going to try to have sex with her.

Now compare that with me. I had two heart attacks since December twenty-third, two bouts of the flu and one case of pneumonia. I also have myasthenia gravis (Latin for grave muscle weakness) that usually kills people by making them so weak that their pulmonary system shuts down and they can't breathe. So here I am, a compromised immune system, two recent heart attacks, with pneumonia, huddled under a bridge, soaked to the skin in below zero temps and the wind cutting through me, without the means to make such a horrible choice.

I have a history of extensive sexual abuse, selling my body for a roof over my head would be a poor choice for me, but so would making the choice to stay outside and risk death. As horrible choice as it is - I don't have that choice. A woman does. As horrible choice as it is, it's still a choice. There are no end of women's organizations out there trying to put an end to this horrible situation that the poor women find themselves in...and I would have gladly switched places with them.

Yes, I lived, but I am not the same man that I was. Six months ago I didn't need a home health care worker, today I do. I'm not going to live anywhere near as long as I was before this crisis.

Yagr, you bring up excellent points. Working in the nonprofit world, I can say that resources available for both men and women are limited. I'd have to see actual reports but I know there is a lot of talk about helping women because in many cases the resources for them are actually more limited than for men because women and men can't be at the same shelters due to concerns about violence, and women often have children with them, so there isn't space for them.

However, there are more homeless men than women (I recall), so the support seems disproportionate. Really the inequity spills into many different areas.

Thanks for the support seesaw.

One more... when I ended up on the streets I began at the domestic violence office. You know what happened right? They receive federal funding through grants but I was the wrong sex. Go equality. I seriously considered telling them that I identify as a woman to see if the rainbow umbrella would afford me some protection.