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Old 02-19-2019, 02:16 PM #11
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Default Re: internalized homophobia

I think that dealing with internalized LGBTQ-phobia is just as a unique process as is the coming out process. For a lot of us, simply coming out was a long, drawn-out process, and I can see dealing with any negative internalization taking just as long or longer, depending on the situation and how one deals with their own issues.



Speaking for me alone, it took just experiencing a lot of different things--things I was curous about, things that scared me, things that I liked (or thought I would like)--and then processing how I felt with things as I went. It took experiencing different versions of the same type of experience to see what made things positive and what made things negative for me, so that I could better navigate future experiences. It also took me always doing positive self-talk of self-acceptance in order to get through to myself that I am okay the way I am, flaws and all. Just because I came out to myself once didn't mean that I was finished with the process of fully coming out to myself, in all ways that it could mean. "I am gay," is a stateement that hits just one point. What kind of person am I as a result of this? How do I interact with my world and surroundings as a result of this? Who am I to myself as a result of this? How do I understand everything else about me as a result of this? You are essentially rebuilding your sense of identity, and that is not a simple, short task. It is a lifelong journey that brings awareness and understanding and acceptance with each step.



Be kind to yourself. Be patient with yourself. Wouldn't you be that way for a friend or family member if they came out to you? Give the same to yourself. Live, try, process, self-talk, self-encourage, and give yourself the room to grow into yourself more and more.
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:04 PM #12
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Default Re: internalized homophobia

How does one get any experiences though?

If we're talking sexual experiences, it seems the only option is random hook-ups with complete strangers and due to the bad experiences I've already had, I absolutely couldn't do that. It would further cement my negative feelings towards sex and I would be afraid it would really traumatize me. I'm not sure if my former experience could be classified as "trauma" but I'd have to at least feel safe with the person first. That can't happen with a stranger.

And with no experiences or connections really, I can't really tell what my identity is or have any connection to it. I guess I'll just always be empty and without a sense of self. I guess I'll always feel like a fraud.
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Old 03-02-2019, 05:15 AM #13
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Default Re: internalized homophobia

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Does anybody else who identifies lesbian/gay/bi+ or non-binary etc. suffer from internalized homophobia? I can admit to myself my sexuality and gender and even to others, but I can't accept it no matter what happens. It's not like I just started questioning. My gender/sexuality identity has been pretty stable for the last decade or so. I'm not sure how to get over it at this point. It is one of the reasons I have severely low self-esteem.

I am not 100% on what I am, sometimes I think I am bisexual and sometimes lesbian, but have never been intimate or even kissed a woman. I just know there is something wrong when I kiss a man, it feels like I am forcing it. And I find women's bodies more attractive than men's most of the time, but like men's faces more than women's.


The only way I can climax is through self pleasure and I have to think of something to get me in the mood or watch something that turns me on; this is never sex or people's bodies, is generally watching men dominate women in some way, but not something that is sexually non consensual. (It doesn't necessarily turn me on to be dominated by a man personally).


But I have no interest in trying being with a woman anyway. However for me the fact I have never tried it suggests that maybe if I do everything will change and I will know I am a lesbian. My parents would disapprove and I don't feel comfortable with it at all. But it is a personal disinterest. On the other hand I don't like being alone, but sex with men doesn't work. If I had the courage to try out being with a woman (I think I am afraid of liking it, but at present it doesn't feel 'right') I would.


I don't know if this is internalised homophobia but at present I can't imagine waking up in the arms of a woman every day. It doesn't feel 'natural' for me. I don't have an issue with people who are gay, yet I am nervous around them (because I seem to believe that they can 'tell' who is a lesbian and who isn't, and people have asked me if I was before).Women have flirted with me in the past and I didn't like it, even when I thought they were pretty. If I was comfortable with who I was I would be flattered.


So I avoid gay people. As I say I don't yearn for any woman and never have. Have a feeling, and my intuition makes me think I am, just from the fact that I think women's bodies are prettier, and when it comes to famous people I think more women are attractive than famous men (but is the opposite in real life), and if I like men they tend to be younger than me. But the idea of being with a woman does not appeal, even though I think if I let go of the fear of liking it, I would enjoy it more than being with a man. And if I did I think everything would change and I would want a relationship with a woman, but am scared of going there.


Hopefully I haven't offended anyone; apologies if I have.
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Old 03-02-2019, 05:19 AM #14
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Default Re: internalized homophobia

Just to add that I think therapy might help, but it costs money. Here in the UK we have free healthcare and when psychotic have a lot of voices saying I am a lesbian, but the mh team have just said 'no one cares if you are a lesbian or not' but I care, and my parents would care, which is enough to warrant some therapy, but I can't get it through them.


I certainly would recommend it to anyone else though.
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Old 03-17-2019, 08:45 PM #15
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Default Re: internalized homophobia

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Originally Posted by Skull&Crossbones View Post
How does one get any experiences though?

If we're talking sexual experiences, it seems the only option is random hook-ups with complete strangers and due to the bad experiences I've already had, I absolutely couldn't do that. It would further cement my negative feelings towards sex and I would be afraid it would really traumatize me. I'm not sure if my former experience could be classified as "trauma" but I'd have to at least feel safe with the person first. That can't happen with a stranger.

And with no experiences or connections really, I can't really tell what my identity is or have any connection to it. I guess I'll just always be empty and without a sense of self. I guess I'll always feel like a fraud.

Are you able to even bring yourself to go on a date with someone new? I mean, the only way to avoid a random hook-up is to know the person first, and the only way to know them is to meet them (unless it is a person you know from your life who is also bi-curious or gay). So how do you personally meet people, whether for fun, dating, etc.?


Here in the US, as I can see that you are also here, there is Meetup.com that is a great way to meet people in social settings. Just look for LGBT/gay/queer/lesbian/whatever groups and join them and participate. You'll be able to get to know people, talk about experiences (or lack thereof, maybe find potential dates outside of the group).



If you cannot bring yourself to meet new people, then I would reiterate the prior suggestions of therapy or support groups to help you determine options that will work for you.



But it sounds as if the root of your problem is just not accepting yourself as anything remotely LGBT. And that is definitely something that only professional clinical support can help you deal with directly.
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Old 03-17-2019, 11:52 PM #16
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Are you able to even bring yourself to go on a date with someone new? I mean, the only way to avoid a random hook-up is to know the person first, and the only way to know them is to meet them (unless it is a person you know from your life who is also bi-curious or gay). So how do you personally meet people, whether for fun, dating, etc.?


Here in the US, as I can see that you are also here, there is Meetup.com that is a great way to meet people in social settings. Just look for LGBT/gay/queer/lesbian/whatever groups and join them and participate. You'll be able to get to know people, talk about experiences (or lack thereof, maybe find potential dates outside of the group).



If you cannot bring yourself to meet new people, then I would reiterate the prior suggestions of therapy or support groups to help you determine options that will work for you.



But it sounds as if the root of your problem is just not accepting yourself as anything remotely LGBT. And that is definitely something that only professional clinical support can help you deal with directly.
I've been to LGBT meet-up groups. The vast majority of time, I'm around men because they're more welcoming and there's more of them in the groups. I wouldn't even know how to insert myself in the women's cliques.

I mainly meet people through work and various gigs. I've met people through school too, but the only person I find interesting there is a guy. I don't know how I'd ever date (unless I pursue the aforementioned guy) because I can't use online dating (I'm afraid that having a recognizable profile would be an ethical violation in my future industry). There are in-person dating events, but those are for straight people so that would limit me to men and while I don't mind being romantically involved with a guy, I'm not sure about the sex.
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Old 03-20-2019, 11:39 AM #17
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Default Re: internalized homophobia

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I've been to LGBT meet-up groups. The vast majority of time, I'm around men because they're more welcoming and there's more of them in the groups. I wouldn't even know how to insert myself in the women's cliques.
Why do you think you have trouble with the women's "cliques"? Might you be making assumptions about how welcoming or not they may be? I ask because I sometimes finding myself in LGBT groups and gravitating toward the women for much of the same fears you seem to be expressing (e.g. "They won't find me attractive enough to welcome me into their conversation," "The girls are just nicer and easier to talk to," "I have nothing in common with those guys and can't contribute anything," etc.). I often need to remind myself that I am sabotaging myself with the negative self-talk. For me, I just have to force myself to at least try . . . and then keep trying, if I immediately continue the negative self-talk with things like, "That didn't go well, so that proves my earlier thoughts."


Quote:
I mainly meet people through work and various gigs. I've met people through school too, but the only person I find interesting there is a guy. I don't know how I'd ever date (unless I pursue the aforementioned guy) because I can't use online dating (I'm afraid that having a recognizable profile would be an ethical violation in my future industry). There are in-person dating events, but those are for straight people so that would limit me to men and while I don't mind being romantically involved with a guy, I'm not sure about the sex.
I am not sure if I was reading your story correctly in that your previous bad sexual experiences have been with men. Have you had any positive experiences with women? Or any at all? I only ask because I believe that the experiences you referred to might not even factor into experiences with women, as they would have a much better understanding of a female body and appropriate pleasure-giving. And many might be much more understanding of hesitancies you mihgt have.
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Old 03-20-2019, 01:44 PM #18
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Why do you think you have trouble with the women's "cliques"? Might you be making assumptions about how welcoming or not they may be? I ask because I sometimes finding myself in LGBT groups and gravitating toward the women for much of the same fears you seem to be expressing (e.g. "They won't find me attractive enough to welcome me into their conversation," "The girls are just nicer and easier to talk to," "I have nothing in common with those guys and can't contribute anything," etc.). I often need to remind myself that I am sabotaging myself with the negative self-talk. For me, I just have to force myself to at least try . . . and then keep trying, if I immediately continue the negative self-talk with things like, "That didn't go well, so that proves my earlier thoughts."



I am not sure if I was reading your story correctly in that your previous bad sexual experiences have been with men. Have you had any positive experiences with women? Or any at all? I only ask because I believe that the experiences you referred to might not even factor into experiences with women, as they would have a much better understanding of a female body and appropriate pleasure-giving. And many might be much more understanding of hesitancies you mihgt have.
I just don't really have anything in common with women, other than shared body parts. I mean, other than acknowledging that I do in fact have female body parts, I'm not comfortable identifying as a "woman" although I do anyway because that's what is expected. My body naturally produces significantly more male hormones than usual or at least has in the past (no idea if I have internal male organs or not or if I'm intersexed in any way). I have trouble understanding female perspective because that's NOT how I think. I tend to have a male mind, maybe even a more male personality? I'm not completely masculine in a traditional sense, but still... And most queer women I know about around here are hardcore feminists. Which makes sense, but it's just awkward for me because of gender identity. I'm also not comfortable with using different pronouns or a preferred name, so I have an additional disadvantage...everyone is so SUPER confident in their gender identity etc., why the hell would they want me around? I don't like overly confident people, they're all bullies.

And my only sexual experience has been with men. At best it's boring or only about the other person's pleasure or they get off too soon and I only get to experience pleasure for a few seconds. At worst it's painful and humiliating (not in a good way). It's all about what they want and never being comfortable with anything I would enjoy (and it's basic stuff that isn't that out there!). It seems like straight men are so terrified of being gay that they demand to be tops all the time...and I'm not really a bottom, so it's frustrating.

Back to queer women though, they're either married or seem to be really uncomfortable around me. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.
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Old 03-20-2019, 02:18 PM #19
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Default Re: internalized homophobia

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I just don't really have anything in common with women, other than shared body parts. I mean, other than acknowledging that I do in fact have female body parts, I'm not comfortable identifying as a "woman" although I do anyway because that's what is expected. My body naturally produces significantly more male hormones than usual or at least has in the past (no idea if I have internal male organs or not or if I'm intersexed in any way). I have trouble understanding female perspective because that's NOT how I think. I tend to have a male mind, maybe even a more male personality? I'm not completely masculine in a traditional sense, but still... And most queer women I know about around here are hardcore feminists. Which makes sense, but it's just awkward for me because of gender identity. I'm also not comfortable with using different pronouns or a preferred name, so I have an additional disadvantage...everyone is so SUPER confident in their gender identity etc., why the hell would they want me around? I don't like overly confident people, they're all bullies.

And my only sexual experience has been with men. At best it's boring or only about the other person's pleasure or they get off too soon and I only get to experience pleasure for a few seconds. At worst it's painful and humiliating (not in a good way). It's all about what they want and never being comfortable with anything I would enjoy (and it's basic stuff that isn't that out there!). It seems like straight men are so terrified of being gay that they demand to be tops all the time...and I'm not really a bottom, so it's frustrating.

Back to queer women though, they're either married or seem to be really uncomfortable around me. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

There is definitely a lot to unpack here. So there is some possible gender stuff going on with you as well, which obviously contributes to all this. Aside from these forums, I strongly suggest in-person counseling and/or support groups. Maybe inquire with the closest LGBTQ center to you. Do you live in or near an urban/suburban area that has one?

Aside from that, I can guarantee you there are a number of queer women who have a stronger sense of "masculinity" and/or higher levels of male hormones than the average biological female. You are far from alone in that. I suspect that your limited exposure to queer women plays a part in feeling otherwise. As part of being kind and patient with yourself, remind yourself of this fact when you are around other women. So maybe the queer women you have been around are just not "butch" themselves or only feel a stronger kinship with femme women. (I do not presume that you place yourself into a butch category, I just use the term for the sake of my statement.)

So, as far as personal attraction goes, what "types" of women catch your eye? And to what degree is the attraction (in comparison to men)? I just am trying to get a sense of who you are and the actual directions you lean. If you prefer not to answer, I understand. I am not trying to push you into anything, specifically.
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Old 03-20-2019, 03:02 PM #20
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Default Re: internalized homophobia

There is a non-binary/transgender group where I live, but when I attended in the past, I didn't feel trans+ enough. Everyone in non-binary category past as androgynous. I have a very effeminate face and a large chest so even with short hair and neutral/more masculine clothes I don't think I even pass as queer let alone masculine. I also don't fit in because I'm not planning on medically transitioning any time soon and maybe never and I shouldn't have to in order to at least have people close to me see me for who I am, but maybe I do. So, I'm basically a fraud and certainly don't belong in a trans+ group.

As for attraction, I'm pretty attracted to androgyny regardless of body parts. With women, I'm much more likely to be attracted to physical aspects before even getting to know them that well and with men, the only time pure physical attraction happens is when the guy looks like I would like if I were a guy or I'd simply like to be that guy. Otherwise, I develop feelings for men when they do something nice for me and/or interact with me. Then I usually try to imagine sex with them or do something to make the attraction more sexual. I apparently have a pretty high sex drive even though I try to ignore it so I can get through my days without too much distraction, so if men are the only option to take care of it then I have to make it work. I think I did become sexually attracted to my last male partner, but I don't think I could usually get as aroused as I could with porn, but I thought that was normal.

ETA: I'm also not really interested in foreplay, especially with a man (I was turned off by the thought of receiving oral from a man before even having sexual experience and having experience has NOT changed my mind). I mean, I'll give (no problem with that) but I don't want to receive. Don't see a point. I much rather sex just be intercourse and call it good so no one's wasting any time. I should be any guy's dream! They can exert exactly zero effort instead of "trying" to do something for me. I might be more open to receiving with a woman simply because it hasn't been ruined for me yet, but then again, I still fail to see the point. No matter what anyone does, I'm never going to orgasm and I see no point if it's impossible. I'll just go watch porn and take care of it myself (because I can actually give myself an orgasm pretty much every time and usually with little to no effort.) and not become frustrated and resentful towards the other person. I just don't see sex as anything good...all it does is ruin a good relationship by making me resent that person who can have tons of orgasms with no effort and I have to take care of myself so I can have an orgasm EVER.

Everyone wants to cuddle and touch constantly too. I don't like building intimacy through touch because touch is usually too unfamiliar and overwhelming and then touch is withheld to punish me after I'm stupid enough to grow attached. When am I going to learn that touch is a weapon? I'd be fine with it if it could be used to get me off then leave me alone and stop trying to manipulate me by pretending to be affectionate towards me. People don't respect that you don't want to be constantly touched and take it personally.

Last edited by Skull&Crossbones; 03-20-2019 at 03:44 PM.
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