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Job 30 26
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Default Jan 30, 2020 at 02:17 PM
  #21
Sounds like you have issues with how you think and feel about porn. I recommend that you both read Sex at Dawn. Women and men are so far apart when it comes to drives and impulses. Let me put this in a gentle way: if you ever have a son, and he comesbacross the internet, and randomly comea to enjoy a certain kink--because sex is the most complicated and varied thing about humankind--would you publicly shame your own son, and have that stain on him for the rest of his life? All it takes to start the public shaming is for you to knock over the first domino and a field of fire will burn like a scourge, all because you feel and think differently aboit something as menial as what was going on in tje privacy, that went no further than him with computed screen.
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Default Jan 30, 2020 at 04:49 PM
  #22
I'm not sure if you were meaning me, but I'm definitely not a prude. Everyone (almost) looks at porn.

A google of this subject took me to an Australian support site, where a woman had a similar experience:

My husband's pornography addiction is destroying me

In her case, the images she and her sister were photoshopped onto were sometimes violent, so that's different to the OP's situation.

But the shock and horror comes through.

This is not about boys being boys imo, Job. This mature man is doing something horrible to his two female friends. And they have no idea. The image, once made, can get out into the world at any moment.

In England, we have passed laws around 'revenge porn' (I don't like that phrase, myself).

I see that Georgia has a law on their books which treats this sort of thing as being a similar offence to slander:

"to provide that a person commits defamation when he or she causes an unknowing person wrongfully to be identified as the person in an obscene depiction"

It's a complicated topic, no doubt. But let's call it what it is. A form of sex abuse.
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Default Jan 30, 2020 at 09:54 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Job 30 26 View Post
Sounds like you have issues with how you think and feel about porn. I recommend that you both read Sex at Dawn. Women and men are so far apart when it comes to drives and impulses. Let me put this in a gentle way: if you ever have a son, and he comesbacross the internet, and randomly comea to enjoy a certain kink--because sex is the most complicated and varied thing about humankind--would you publicly shame your own son, and have that stain on him for the rest of his life? All it takes to start the public shaming is for you to knock over the first domino and a field of fire will burn like a scourge, all because you feel and think differently aboit something as menial as what was going on in tje privacy, that went no further than him with computed screen.
Job I’m not sure who you’re talking to about issues with porn. If you look at the dsmv about sex addiction and the criteria you may have a better understanding of the mental health definitions of that issue. It doesn’t sound like you have been educated on the subject. And you know nothing about myself or anyone else or how they personally feel about porn. I am speaking about the actual criteria of porn or sex addiction, which I AM professionally trained in.

As for his activities being private and not anythung beyond a computer screen. There is a HUGE difference between looking at women who have agreed to having sexual images of them portrayed for other people’s sexual gratification and women who are unknowingly being undressed and images created that are as real looking on the screen as ones taken of actual women doing those acts willingly WITHOUT THEIR KNOWLEDGE OR CONSENT.

It is voyeurism , looking at a woman with out her consent and not knowing Someone is looking at you that way. If you think that is harmless then you perhaps suffer from the same male attitudes that make you believe these things are ok , to violate women, exploit them and all without their knowledge or consent for a mans own selfish sexual gratification needs. That is not ok, there’s plenty of legitimate porn out there with women who are doing so willingly that one does not need to put a friends image on a screen and undress her. I’m sorry you perhaps can’t understand. The difference or why that’s a personal violation of her.
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Default Jan 30, 2020 at 09:57 PM
  #24
And also you have no idea what any of us women on here or anyone for that matter have as sexual impulses and drives. The difference is that some people can manage their impulses and respect other individuals to not violate them to satisfy their needs and impulses.
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Default Jan 30, 2020 at 10:01 PM
  #25
Since I’m the original poster. I wonder if I would have got more direct answers regarding my actual question if I had merely said I know of someone, vs saying my bf? Seems things got really sidetracked with focusing on why I’m with him, my views of sex and porn etc etc. Crazy but that was a good learning lesson for me when posting questions.
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Default Jan 31, 2020 at 04:57 PM
  #26
Gfofaddict,
You're factually wrong in labeling him a "sex addict" because the that term isn't agreed upon in the DSM 5 or any previous addition of the DSM. Instead of moralizing it--before you shame him--maybe look for the root cause of it. Maybe he experiences hypomania, which means his brain chemistry is tweaked a bit with extra dopamine, or maybe his sexual behavior is a coping mechanism to deal with depression and anxiety. Maybe this has been an acitivity which has been adapted for an entire lifetime and might be a stubborn activity, that is so riddled with knots that it can't be undone, and only severed with by the help of a specialized psychologist to help him understand the naunces of his activity so he can make progress and move on.

I prefer not to deal in matters of psychology morality, but based in science. You came to psychcentral for advice, a psychology based forum, and psychology is based on science, and not an ethics forum. Public shaming is a moral decision and it makes me uncomfortable because I believe in human dignity, what i mean by dignity is our freewill, and our ability to learn and move on, even when a difficult issue is presented that takes time to understand and even more time to move on from.

The reason I suggested the book Sex at Dawn, is because it tells us how preplexing it is to exist in the times we are living. We were meant to see 3 naked sexual partners for our entire life. Technology and the internet have completely changed everything, and out evolutionary psychology of it all has created, at least to my understanding, a mess for men exposed to the technology and the interent. This book takes on the challenge and I hope it would bring a nuanced understanding of the matter.

Why i caution about public shaming is because people are commited suicide over it. Reputation is a social currency that is one of the most basic and primitive tools to function in the world, it's engrained in us, and reputation can be destroyed in minutes when we take into account the internet of things. We are social by nature, and to wreck another human beings social standard publicly, to a person i suppose you love--well the situation seems thorny. So this is why i suggest therapy, and if he wont do therapy then you could break up with him and move on. You could call the cops on him if it is illegal i suppose, but you already seem to know the legality of it all, which sounds like a dead end.

Anyway, I hope you two can fix this situation without anyone committing suicide. Have a nice day.
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Default Jan 31, 2020 at 07:11 PM
  #27
I wonder why he is doing the photo shop on his female friends. To me, it means he has more than just friend feelings for them and wants to imagine them naked.

You seem to be comfortable with his doing this, as far as how it pertains to your relationship with him. Also, you say these women aren’t your friends and don’t like you.

So, I have a take on this that might be unpopular with others here but— I’d say don’t tell them. They don’t have knowledge he is doing it. He is not harming them by releasing the photos and slandering them. You know him well enough to know he is not a physical threat to them. He’s not having sex IRL with them or attacking them, I hope. So, what they don’t know doesn’t hurt them. It’s not your responsibility to tell them.

Personally, I’d have real issues with my bf doing this to me. It’s like he’s cheating on you. He has relationships with other women who he fantasizes about naked and he knows you know. But, you seem okay with it, so no judgment here.

If he was a real threat to them, then I’d warn them. Otherwise, you are just causing tension between them, him, and you.

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Default Jan 31, 2020 at 08:16 PM
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Job 30 26 View Post
Gfofaddict,
You're factually wrong in labeling him a "sex addict" because the that term isn't agreed upon in the DSM 5 or any previous addition of the DSM. Instead of moralizing it--before you shame him--maybe look for the root cause of it. Maybe he experiences hypomania, which means his brain chemistry is tweaked a bit with extra dopamine, or maybe his sexual behavior is a coping mechanism to deal with depression and anxiety. Maybe this has been an acitivity which has been adapted for an entire lifetime and might be a stubborn activity, that is so riddled with knots that it can't be undone, and only severed with by the help of a specialized psychologist to help him understand the naunces of his activity so he can make progress and move on.

I prefer not to deal in matters of psychology morality, but based in science. You came to psychcentral for advice, a psychology based forum, and psychology is based on science, and not an ethics forum. Public shaming is a moral decision and it makes me uncomfortable because I believe in human dignity, what i mean by dignity is our freewill, and our ability to learn and move on, even when a difficult issue is presented that takes time to understand and even more time to move on from.

The reason I suggested the book Sex at Dawn, is because it tells us how preplexing it is to exist in the times we are living. We were meant to see 3 naked sexual partners for our entire life. Technology and the internet have completely changed everything, and out evolutionary psychology of it all has created, at least to my understanding, a mess for men exposed to the technology and the interent. This book takes on the challenge and I hope it would bring a nuanced understanding of the matter.

Why i caution about public shaming is because people are commited suicide over it. Reputation is a social currency that is one of the most basic and primitive tools to function in the world, it's engrained in us, and reputation can be destroyed in minutes when we take into account the internet of things. We are social by nature, and to wreck another human beings social standard publicly, to a person i suppose you love--well the situation seems thorny. So this is why i suggest therapy, and if he wont do therapy then you could break up with him and move on. You could call the cops on him if it is illegal i suppose, but you already seem to know the legality of it all, which sounds like a dead end.

Anyway, I hope you two can fix this situation without anyone committing suicide. Have a nice day.
With respect, Job, this is why the me too movement started in the first place. Because of the myriad of things stopping people from:

Speaking out.

Being believed.

Getting people to understand how devastating sexual harrasment can be.

Having clear and effective laws, so that when a person is harassed / stalked they will know what to do.

As I said before, I'm on the side of the victim and I always will be. The harrasser has made a decision to act the way they have. The victim has a ****storm of misery and fear coming their way, and for no reason.

I do publicly shame men who pester me.

Fear of damaging their reputation? You are clearly not living in the same world as I am. Years, I spent on trying to ignore or deal with or 'solve' the problem of two different stalkers.

NOTHING works.

If you ignore and avoid them, as I did for a long time, they keep coming further forward, encroaching on your space. Soon, you feel as though nowhere is your own. You're instinctively keeping to out of way places. You daren't raise your gaze from the ground in case you accidentally meet theirs.

And so on.

Get a male friend to tell them to back off? They will hold off for a few days or weeks, but the incident basically just excites them.

Speaking to them / asking them to leave you alone / getting upset similarly just makes the whole thing more dramatic.

Reporting them? Not even that stopped my first stalker. This was a colleague, who everybody liked. Well, the colleagues I respected didn't, thank goodness... they saw straight through his smarmy ways. He was given an official warning. I left the job because of it (by this time, I was sleeping with a knife under my pillow). Months later, I ran into him near the workplace. He lowered his voice and muttered something to me. I won't repeat it, but the phrase and the insane look in his eyes...

He was boasting, really, saying, I will follow you for the rest of your life, if I choose to, and there is nothing you can do about it.

THIS is the what sexual harrassers are really like. If you're under a different impression, then they are fooling you.

It's about power, and taking advantage of those who are physically weaker.

I watch it happen with younger acquaintances and see them going through all the confusion and failed attempts to deal with the problem that I did. Through that, I've observed that these men tend to target certain women. Quiet. Nice. Reserved. They DON'T go for women who de-romanticise / de-eroticize the situation by shouting, 'What are you staring at?'

So, thinking of these men as being 'addicted' is irrelevant. Unlike alcoholism etc, their addiction has a victim.

Im sorry to the OP for taking the thread so far off course!

I'm hoping that someone who is being sexually harassed at the moment might read this and feel less alone.
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Default Jan 31, 2020 at 11:58 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Job 30 26 View Post
Gfofaddict,
You're factually wrong in labeling him a "sex addict" because the that term isn't agreed upon in the DSM 5 or any previous addition of the DSM. Instead of moralizing it--before you shame him--maybe look for the root cause of it. Maybe he experiences hypomania, which means his brain chemistry is tweaked a bit with extra dopamine, or maybe his sexual behavior is a coping mechanism to deal with depression and anxiety. Maybe this has been an acitivity which has been adapted for an entire lifetime and might be a stubborn activity, that is so riddled with knots that it can't be undone, and only severed with by the help of a specialized psychologist to help him understand the naunces of his activity so he can make progress and move on.

I prefer not to deal in matters of psychology morality, but based in science. You came to psychcentral for advice, a psychology based forum, and psychology is based on science, and not an ethics forum. Public shaming is a moral decision and it makes me uncomfortable because I believe in human dignity, what i mean by dignity is our freewill, and our ability to learn and move on, even when a difficult issue is presented that takes time to understand and even more time to move on from.

The reason I suggested the book Sex at Dawn, is because it tells us how preplexing it is to exist in the times we are living. We were meant to see 3 naked sexual partners for our entire life. Technology and the internet have completely changed everything, and out evolutionary psychology of it all has created, at least to my understanding, a mess for men exposed to the technology and the interent. This book takes on the challenge and I hope it would bring a nuanced understanding of the matter.

Why i caution about public shaming is because people are commited suicide over it. Reputation is a social currency that is one of the most basic and primitive tools to function in the world, it's engrained in us, and reputation can be destroyed in minutes when we take into account the internet of things. We are social by nature, and to wreck another human beings social standard publicly, to a person i suppose you love--well the situation seems thorny. So this is why i suggest therapy, and if he wont do therapy then you could break up with him and move on. You could call the cops on him if it is illegal i suppose, but you already seem to know the legality of it all, which sounds like a dead end.

Anyway, I hope you two can fix this situation without anyone committing suicide. Have a nice day.
Excuse me, but please go back and read the posts. I said NOTHING about shaming public or otherwise! Another responder did and I actually specifically said that is not what I am even remotely interested in doing. . My question was about the rights of the people he is using without their consent to know or not know. Period! That is about THEM not him!
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Default Feb 01, 2020 at 12:01 AM
  #30
And Job I also specifically said this is NOT about him and I or our relationship ans that I was not seeking advice or Information regarding that. So your comment “I hope the two of you work this out without one of you committing suicide is WAY out of line and off topic!
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Default Feb 01, 2020 at 05:03 AM
  #31
Hey @Gfofaddict Maybe I misunderstood what you mean when you said this :
Quote:
All thoughts and views welcome . I’m just torn as to whether I stay silent and let him perpetuate this secret violation or I let them know so they can decide what to do.
Thanks
But I guess next time make the parameters more clear with what you are looking to specifically discuss about such a loaded topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gfofaddict View Post
Since I’m the original poster. I wonder if I would have got more direct answers regarding my actual question if I had merely said I know of someone, vs saying my bf? Seems things got really sidetracked with focusing on why I’m with him, my views of sex and porn etc etc. Crazy but that was a good learning lesson for me when posting questions.

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Default Feb 01, 2020 at 06:30 AM
  #32
I guess I’m Not seeing the lack of clarity you’re talking about. I specifically say do I tell the women that are being used in the Photos that they are being used this way. Not talking about telling anyone else, public shaming of him like some are talking about etc. The question is totally about the ones used in the photos and their right to know, nothing about him ,me etc

I also don’t understand why it is as you say “such a loaded question”.
Even in rereading it I specifically said the question is if I tell the women that are being victimized and used without their knowledge Or consent. . I guess I see it as similar to voyeurism,someone wouldn’t know they were being watched or looked at, but if you see it happening do you let them know And if you know who it is I am most certain you would tell the victim that as well, so I’m not really seeing the difference here. There’s a perpetrator and a victim and I’m asking does the victim have a right to know. Something they couldn’t know unless told

Can you help me by telling me what I am being vague about so It would have been clearer? Thanks
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Default Feb 01, 2020 at 01:32 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Gfofaddict View Post
I guess I’m Not seeing the lack of clarity you’re talking about. I specifically say do I tell the women that are being used in the Photos that they are being used this way. Not talking about telling anyone else, public shaming of him like some are talking about etc. The question is totally about the ones used in the photos and their right to know, nothing about him ,me etc
It's a complex topic, and the scant information given raises a lot of questions, which makes it difficult to give any proper advice.

I could advise you to keep it to yourself, but what if his addiction is far worse than what it appears and worsens as a consequence of your enabling him?

Maybe I should advise you to tell these women, but what if he finds out about it and he retaliates against you?
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Default Feb 06, 2020 at 05:39 AM
  #34
I’d tell the women as they are being exploited. If you think they wouldn’t believe you, well nothing you can do. I might also consult with police re best course of action.
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Default Feb 06, 2020 at 03:21 PM
  #35
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I’d tell the women as they are being exploited. If you think they wouldn’t believe you, well nothing you can do. I might also consult with police re best course of action.
Thanks for the response. But at this point in time there are absolutely no laws in any jurisdiction in the us that address this issue so police would not be interested. Recently some states have begun addressing revenge porn ie posting private pictures of someone without their consent on line but that isn’t the issue here and typically that just allows you to sue, police rarely get involved.
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Default Feb 08, 2020 at 01:31 AM
  #36
Just because there isn’t a specific law about it at this point doesn’t mean what he is doing is not morally wrong.

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Default Aug 03, 2020 at 06:00 PM
  #37
I don't know if this is still an issue for you, or if you've worked-out what to do. It's been 6 months since you originally posted.

I personally would confront the "bf" about it, first. That is, if you have an interest in maintaining any kind of relationship with that person. Even if it's now only friendship.

I would want to know his reasons for ever spending any time on something like this. What are his motivations for doing such a thing? My curiosity would be killing me.

Then, I would proceed from there.
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