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Default Dec 28, 2019 at 06:40 PM
  #1
So, I've been very out there about my sleep troubles. Sorry. But I have this weighted blanket now and I do think it is helping somewhat. That said, I still am having odd experiences with respect to time and my sleep. For one, I have only slept for around 5 1/2 or 6 hrs. in a row maybe twice or three times in the last several months. I generally, when I do sleep, which isn't often, sleep only for maybe 2 hours before I just wake up, ready to go.

One thing I am noticing recently is this weird dichotomy between how long it seems like I've been asleep (as judged right when I wake up but before looking at any clock) and then, how long it turns out I have actually slept. Example. I just woke up. I was finally able to fall asleep. I had a bunch of dreams. It seemed like it had been maybe, oh, 3-4 hours perhaps. But guess what? It was just under an hour.

Am I the only one who thinks they are sleeping way longer than they actually are? What does this mean?

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Default Dec 28, 2019 at 07:24 PM
  #2
I do the same thing and I have no idea what it means. Yesterday I took a nap I thought for a couple hours but it was actually just a few minutes. Other times I sleep way longer then I think. My weighted blanket helps me. Sleepy time tea somewhat.

The store Lush makes a lotion called Sleepy. Its supposed to work very well. I used it one time and slept so much I almost had a drug like hangover when I woke up. My sleep issues are ****ed though.

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Default Dec 28, 2019 at 10:32 PM
  #3
bpcyclist, do you think your crazy sleep problems could be tied to the combo of meds you take for your depression? I found that anytime I took those types of meds my quality of sleep disappeared and made my life miserable until I got off those meds.

The only time where I wake up confused about the length of time I've been asleep is after I've been awake for days due to stress or my stupid woman hormonal shifts in my late 40s messing with my circadian rhythm. I'll go to sleep, think I slept for 8 hours but nope, it was only 3 or 4. Or vice versa. I guess it did happen when I slept in my mother's empty apartment, and when I first move into a place and don't sleep on a regular schedule.

I'm still wondering if the weighted blanket isn't the correct weight for you. Yes, 20 pounds is 10% of 190 pounds but maybe you need a blanket that weighs less than 20 pounds and has a more "cool" fabric that you can pull up to your shoulders. Maybe 20 pounds is too much and since it makes you sweat like crazy, that will disrupt your sleep too.

Sorry you are struggling with your sleep issues. That sucks so bad. I wonder if a sleep doctor could help you with these issues, esp. if you have to take the meds you're on and can't change the combo of those meds. Hmm.

Also, what is your bedroom like? Does it stress you out? Anything about it that you could rearrange? Feng shui it maybe? I know that sounds silly, but maybe moving your bed to another part of your bedroom will help. Oh, also, try a sleep mask if you don't think having something on your face will keep you awake. When I was struggling to sleep this summer in my mother's empty apt. after she got moved to her nursing home and I had to be there for the last month of her lease, on a crappy day bed with nothing else in the apt., it stressed me out. So, I went to Walgreens and bought a sleep mask and that actually helped me calm down and sleep. I also used earplugs and put a cool wash cloth on my face and neck. And, I also took a bath about an hour before bed to calm me down. I know you're a guy so maybe a shower would work better? Maybe try it?

Hopefully the problem isn't your meds combo. This will also sound hoakey, but what about doing some relaxing stretches before your bed time routine? You need to create a night time routine for yourself and stick to it, and try to "train your brain" and your body to follow that routine to improve your sleep.

I feel bad for you. I hope you can sort this sleep problem out.
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Default Dec 29, 2019 at 04:03 AM
  #4
Thanks, MD--I'll look into the Lush situation. That could help.

Yeah, Blanche, it's hard to say. I have been on this regimen for quite awhile and I slept just fine until this past summer's (typical, for me) manic time. Since then, it's been rough. I tried stopping the Provigil and it did not seem to make one bit of difference. I have not d/c'd the Wellbutrin out of fear of a major crash and burn. But maybe I should.

Anyhow, just coming out of this psychotic/manic thing last month and I am obviously not totally stable yet. Still some voices. Will see pdoc soon and try to get a game plan. It is interesting to me that neither Seroquel nor Zyprexa can put me to sleep anymore. It's like taking water.

The room seems neutral to me, but I no doubt could make it nicer. I have never been the decorator in my homes, always took the back seat there and right now am living solo. Let's just say it would be obvious entering that a male resides here. It is extremely clean and neat, but certainly not cozy, I guess.

Anyhow, thank you both for the kind words. I will carry on and somehow, this will get better. I just have to not give up. And I won't.

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Default Dec 29, 2019 at 12:56 PM
  #5
So, maybe mania contributes to your crazy sleep schedule? I wonder if that's a biological side effect of mania? I read online that a bout of insomnia can trigger a manic episode. Has that been the case for you, bpcyclist?

Since I love research, I found this online about the link between bipolar disorder and insomnia. Don't know if it will be new information for you or even helpful, but here it is: http://www.antoniocasella.eu/archipsy/Harvey_2008.PDF

Quote:
Sleep deprivation in bipolar patients. A small handful of experimental studies and case studies have reported that induced sleep deprivation is associated with the onset
of hypomania or mania in a proportion of patients (e.g., reference 33). In a study of 206 depressed bipolar patients, Colombo et al. (34) treated patients with one night of total
sleep deprivation followed by either a recovery night or one of several medications (lithium salts, fluoxetine, amineptine, or pindolol). The results indicated that 4.85%
of patients switched into mania and 5.83% switched into hypomania. It seems possible that with more than one night of full or partial sleep deprivation, the proportion of
patients relapsing might be much greater.
Have you ever been diagnosed with delayed phase sleep syndrome? Can you see a sleep specialist at all? If you have, did they suggest anything helpful?
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Default Dec 30, 2019 at 05:39 PM
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by StreetcarBlanche View Post
So, maybe mania contributes to your crazy sleep schedule? I wonder if that's a biological side effect of mania? I read online that a bout of insomnia can trigger a manic episode. Has that been the case for you, bpcyclist?

Since I love research, I found this online about the link between bipolar disorder and insomnia. Don't know if it will be new information for you or even helpful, but here it is: http://www.antoniocasella.eu/archipsy/Harvey_2008.PDF


Have you ever been diagnosed with delayed phase sleep syndrome? Can you see a sleep specialist at all? If you have, did they suggest anything helpful?
Well, great minds think alike, I suppose. I was just thinking about all this stuff last night while I lay awake. That article (thank you!) affirms what I was thinking, which is, that, even though I don't meet all DSM criteria maybe right now, I most certainly am having several symptoms of a manic/hypomanic situation. I think my weird dream and sleep experiences are happening because I am still a little or more than a little manic from earlier in the month. Basically, when I am able to actually sleep, I am essentially having what amounts to racing thoughts, racing dreams, if you will--while actually asleep. This is part of why even the sleep I do get is not restful. I think I'm manic.

Seeing doc soon, will discuss some changes. Need to check a lithium level, even though I can almost guarantee it will be 0.9--it's always 0.9. Maybe we can add something else. Never tried Latuda. Or Vraylar. Need to read up.

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Default Dec 30, 2019 at 07:20 PM
  #7
Indeed great minds DO think alike! I bet anything that your insomnia triggered your mania or vice versa. It was a gut feeling which that medical journal article I found online supports. I still think you may also have delayed phase sleep too, as a result of not sleeping. Best to get that cleared up with a sleep doctor though as he or she will know for sure. Also, the meds you're on; individually or combined could be fekking with your sleep and causing you to be manic when you shouldn't be manic. I hope you can get it sorted. Sleep is so important!
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Default Dec 31, 2019 at 03:40 AM
  #8
Ha! Thank you. I still have to read about the delayed phase stuff--no idea what that is. And you know what, I got manic years ago when I was on Cymbalta plus Wellbutrin. The issue is that Wellbutrin works so much better for me than anything else I have tried--including MAOIs--that losing it could prove disastrous. We will just have to see how it all shakes out.

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Default Dec 31, 2019 at 06:40 PM
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That makes sense about Cymbalta making you manic when you were on it. One of its common side effects (or adverse depends on the website you go to) is "insomnia." So it probably induces mania in some people who take it.

The delayed phase sleep syndrome means that you fall asleep after normal hours -- past midnight or not until the morning. The two main treatments for it are light therapy (think: SAD "seasonal affective disorder" light that you sit in front of 20 minutes a day) or chronotherapy (the time you go to bed each night -- you intentionally make it later than normal and do that every night until your circadian rhythm kicks in again).
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Default Dec 31, 2019 at 06:46 PM
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Here's a description of chronotherapy from the website ScienceDirect
Quote:
Chronotherapy
Chronotherapy is a behavioral technique in which bedtime is systematically delayed, which follows the natural tendency of human biology. Bedtime is delayed by 3-hour increments each day, establishing a 27-hour day. The procedure is maintained until the desired bedtime is reached (say 10 p.m.), when the normal 24-hour day is then established. This approach is favored by adolescents who are extreme night owls. It is difficult to administer, as a parent typically must be present to oversee unusual sleep and wake-up times, such as noon to 8:00 p.m.
Yes its from a medical article about treating sleep problems in children but it's the simplest definition that I could find. I think it works the same on adults. Maybe give it a try and see if it helps you reconfigure your circadian rhythm of you body.
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Default Jan 01, 2020 at 02:30 AM
  #11
I think I will try the chronotherapy first.

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Default Jan 01, 2020 at 05:08 PM
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I hope it or something else helps you get sleep again, bpcyclist. I know I have strong opinions and can come across as a bossy haughty poster, so my apologies if I come across that way here.
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Default Jan 02, 2020 at 04:36 AM
  #13
Hey @bpcyclist have you ever had a sleep study? I am not saying you are like me but one of the things I learned is there are actually people out there who do not need the purported 7-8 hours of sleep every night. Have you always been like this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpcyclist View Post
So, I've been very out there about my sleep troubles. Sorry. But I have this weighted blanket now and I do think it is helping somewhat. That said, I still am having odd experiences with respect to time and my sleep. For one, I have only slept for around 5 1/2 or 6 hrs. in a row maybe twice or three times in the last several months. I generally, when I do sleep, which isn't often, sleep only for maybe 2 hours before I just wake up, ready to go.

One thing I am noticing recently is this weird dichotomy between how long it seems like I've been asleep (as judged right when I wake up but before looking at any clock) and then, how long it turns out I have actually slept. Example. I just woke up. I was finally able to fall asleep. I had a bunch of dreams. It seemed like it had been maybe, oh, 3-4 hours perhaps. But guess what? It was just under an hour.

Am I the only one who thinks they are sleeping way longer than they actually are? What does this mean?

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Default Jan 02, 2020 at 04:56 AM
  #14
Hey, Sarah. You are the 2nd person to mention the sleep study thing--I need to look into that. Will ask the shrink on Friday and see what he thinks. Maybe there is more going on here.

No, I have not always been like this. When not manic or depressed, I'd say my sleep is pretty vanilla. & hours maybe. Whatever. Something like that. But you know what, things change. I'm older now. There could be something other than the obvious going on here. I'll check it out. Thanks a bunch!

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Default Jan 02, 2020 at 12:26 PM
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Hey bpcyclist, I found a Youtube video on bipolar disorder and insomnia. Maybe it will help? YouTube and YouTube

15 second video from a doctor that confirms bipolar disorder and insomnia are linked YouTube

Here's a 60 minute video for assessment and treatment of insomnia in depressed people YouTube
*at 24:31 a slide mentions antidepressants as a potential cause for insomnia

Here's a testimonial video from a bipolar sufferer about how insomnia induces her mania YouTube

Here's a 2 minute video from a psychiatrist about bipolar disorder and insomnia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FgoD2j6UDk
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Attention Jan 05, 2020 at 04:53 AM
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpcyclist View Post
So, I've been very out there about my sleep troubles. Sorry. But I have this weighted blanket now and I do think it is helping somewhat. That said, I still am having odd experiences with respect to time and my sleep. For one, I have only slept for around 5 1/2 or 6 hrs. in a row maybe twice or three times in the last several months. I generally, when I do sleep, which isn't often, sleep only for maybe 2 hours before I just wake up, ready to go.

One thing I am noticing recently is this weird dichotomy between how long it seems like I've been asleep (as judged right when I wake up but before looking at any clock) and then, how long it turns out I have actually slept. Example. I just woke up. I was finally able to fall asleep. I had a bunch of dreams. It seemed like it had been maybe, oh, 3-4 hours perhaps. But guess what? It was just under an hour.

Am I the only one who thinks they are sleeping way longer than they actually are? What does this mean?
hey, was just reading this - have no idea why I came in here.....

anyways. from what I've been told (which is little) and from what I have experienced, some of those things are from the sleep cycles/levels themselves! the odd dreams and sleeping length time ideas, those I've had. and yes, the dreams can be weird as h**l.

i use to have no problem sleeping 12 to 14 hours. (pretty sure my D helped with that) but all that has been thrown out the window the past year.
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Default Jan 05, 2020 at 06:15 PM
  #17
I’ve been taking NyQuil these past few nights. It knocks me out in about 10 minutes and I’m asleep for hours. It causes really vivid dreams but not nightmares. They make a version of NyQuil that’s just for sleep called Zzquil. It’s non habit forming and might help.

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Default Jan 06, 2020 at 09:33 PM
  #18
I find it hard to sleep, I usually only get a solid night's sleep once a week (usually on the weekend where I totally crash for like 12 hours). I lucid dream a lot, so it is fun to sleep, but it also makes me wake up sometimes. Some nights I just lie in bed for hours.

My wife sleeps well, but I always wake her up, which I feel terrible about. She has a million pillows stacked on her head when she sleeps and I wrap myself like a burrito with the covers. She has fans going, the window cracked and a humidifier. I suggest all or a combo of these things.

I don't get to bed before midnight ever and sometimes not until 230 am or so. I have to get up by 7 to take my wife to the train and have coffee and such. For awhile I was getting up at 5 or 6 am all ready for the day.

I watched a documentary series on the brain and how it works. Apparently, your dreams are just a mashup of things that happened that day. Also, in order to dream you need to be in REM sleep which is only a short period of time - which accounts for the time illusions. You can also train yourself to lucid dream if that thing would help you sleep.
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Default Feb 04, 2020 at 02:46 AM
  #19
It was a gut feeling which that medical journal article I found online supports. I still think you may also have delayed phase sleep too, as a result of not sleeping.
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