advertisement
Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Anonymous48672
Guest
Anonymous48672 has no updates. Edit
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oct 15, 2019 at 10:22 PM
  #1
I've been in and out of therapy for my anxiety condition since my 20s. And, now I'm nearly 50. I still get anxious when I have to set boundaries with people who act petty, or try to take advantage of me, scapegoat me, or verbally abuse me.

Why is it still so scary to set boundaries with people? I deserve to be treated with respect like everyone else. Yet, when people invade my boundaries in different ways, and I hold them accountable for their boundary invasion when I tell them they hurt my feelings etc.,. it feels so scary. And, I don't think it should feel scary since I know I"m standing up for myself.

I notice that really manipulative people HATE IT when I set strong boundaries with them. They try to gaslight me as a result, and tell me I'm too sensitive, or, tell me that I'm overreacting. When the reality is, they don't like that I value myself more than they value me.

Because, if I didn't value myself, I wouldn't set boundaries with people who try to take advantage or act petty or mean. Does anyone else feel this way?
  Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
Anonymous42119, Discombobulated, Fuzzybear, simplex
 
Thanks for this!
luvyrself, simplex

advertisement
Anonymous42119
Guest
Anonymous42119 has no updates. Edit
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oct 16, 2019 at 01:44 AM
  #2
@StreetcarBlanche

I'm 45, and I get nervous around authority figures, and setting boundaries with them, or even asserting myself (in a non-aggressive way, but assertive) is challenging for me. It's the emotional abuse that comes from gaslighting, stonewalling, or outright attacks after asserting your boundary that is what I'm afraid of, but then boundary setting becomes tied with that, so yes, it's easy to be afraid of both. If I feel that I'm afraid to set a boundary with a person at my level (not at an authoritative level), I either end the relationship or I assert the boundary to see what happens. With authority figures, however, it's hard for me to assert my needs and to set appropriate boundaries when they are out of line (e.g., unethical, harassing, criminal, abusive, etc.); authority figures hold such power!

You seem like you value yourself enough to set boundaries. Maybe you need new friends or surroundings, or if they are family members, maybe it speaks to their unresolved dysfunctions. We cannot change others, but if we notice that they disrespect our boundaries again and again, it means they aren't the healthiest for us to be around. If they are in the workplace, or if they are your roommates, that makes it all the more challenging! You'd have to make a decision whether you want to maintain a relationship with those people or not.

Now, that said, some people put up walls instead of boundaries; or, others consider boundaries a demand for others to do something or act only a certain way around you; such are not boundaries. For instance, a wall (not a boundary) is when I tell a person that I only want to speak with them when they are in a good and happy mood, and if they only say positive things to me. That restricts a person's authenticity and becomes a rigid demand. People need to be authentic around others, especially those whom they are in a friendship or other relationship with. People, including you, have a right to feel upset (without attacking) and to discuss what is bothering them. It is up to the parties to communicate, compromise, and/or work things out somehow - or end the relationship if there are too many differences. I once had a family member tell me that she would only speak to me if I agreed to be a certain type of voter, or if I were a certain religion. That is a demand, and a wall really, which I feel is not a boundary. It's a request that disrespects my authenticity and my choices. It actually disrespects my boundary "to be," so no, I will not abide by those rigid requests/demands/rules.

See what kind of people and circumstances you are referring to when you feel fear about asserting your boundaries?

Are they the right people to hang out with?

Are you asserting your boundaries in a demanding tone?

Are you putting up walls instead of boundaries?

Can you break off relationships that are not aligned with your goals for a relationship? Can you find new relationships that are more in line with your goals for a relationship (friendship, otherwise)?

Can you break off relationships that are toxic, unhealthy, or unbalanced in some way?

Can you minimize your contact with those who are toxic, unhealthy, or unbalanced?

Did your relationships begin with a mutual respect of boundaries and then change later on? Why was that? Is there a way to get the relationship back to where it was?

What specific words, phrases, and responses are you frightened of when you assert your boundaries?

What specific words, phrases, tones, and body language are you utilizing when you assert your boundaries? Could they be rephrased differently?

I hope some of these suggestions help. Take what works, toss what doesn't.

(((Meanwhile, safe hugs)))
  Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
Anonymous48672
 
Thanks for this!
luvyrself
Anonymous48672
Guest
Anonymous48672 has no updates. Edit
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oct 16, 2019 at 08:52 AM
  #3
Can you break off relationships that are toxic, unhealthy, or unbalanced in some way?

What I usually have done, is block the person on social media. And, I delete their phone number from my cell phone.

If, after I assert my boundary with the person and they refuse to accept it, and push back or gaslight me, I choose to walk away from that relationship.

I have done that with friends and with family members who I had unhealthy, unbalanced, toxic relationships with.

With my brother: he and his wife left me by the side of the road on a road trip to our uncle's funeral, b/c I would not put away a People magazine that was an awards issue. He claimed the actresses' dresses were 'temping him' (he has a porn addiction) and threatened to leave me by the side of the road, if I didn't put the magazine away (he was driving and I was in the passenger seat and his wife was sitting in the back seat with their baby at the time this happened). I refused to stop reading the magazine so he pulled over, grabbed me out of the passenger seat, and threw me out of his minivan with my duffel bag.

They eventually drove back an hour or so later as I walked along the highway somewhere in Iowa and I was terrified to speak out after that for the rest of the road trip. I borrowed money from a cousin and took a bus home after our uncle's funeral and I never forgot that abuse from my brother. He has been that way his entire life; he makes threats if you don't do as he wants and he follows through on his threats.

Can you minimize your contact with those who are toxic, unhealthy, or unbalanced?

Yes. I will block the person on social media and not contact them. Coworkers who are toxic, I try to avoid interacting with or I report them to a supervisor.

Sometimes, when I report a coworker's toxic behavior to a supervisor, the supervisor has pushed back, telling me not to create drama. When really, I feel like that supervisor just doesn't want to address the interpersonal conflict with myself and a coworker.

Did your relationships begin with a mutual respect of boundaries and then change later on? Why was that? Is there a way to get the relationship back to where it was?

Yes, sometimes past friendships or romantic relationships start off seemingly normal with a mutual respect of boundaries and then change later on to a toxic relationship.

Why?

I think because I choose people who reflect my family of origin members who are emotionally and verbally abusive to me; who gaslight me, who minimalize my feelings or responses to their toxic behavior so that they don't have to feel guilty or take responsibility for hurting my feelings. I choose emotionally unavailable friends and romantic relationships.

I've done DBT and CBT therapy for this (I don't have borderline personality disorder either) with my anxiety disorder. What I've been told is that I have low self esteem, and that I need practice stating my needs to the other person no matter how scary it is.

What has been done to try to get the relationships back on track, is me stating my needs (boundaries). Most of the time, people have chosen to accuse me of being 'too sensitive' and they just walk away. Or, they are so abusive verbally and have played mind games with me, that I walk away after I tell them that I deserve respect. I've been caught in narcissistic men's webs a lot so I try to avoid dating them which is hard.

What specific words, phrases, and responses are you frightened of when you assert your boundaries?

There's quite a few words, phrases, and responses that trigger my anxiety when I try to assert my boundaries with boundary invaders.

What specific words, phrases, tones, and body language are you utilizing when you assert your boundaries? Could they be rephrased differently?

I usually start off with "I like and respect you, and I need to talk to you about what you said/did to me recently, because it matters to me."

Then, I repeat the person's words or actions back to them.
Then, I tell them how their words or actions affected me.
Then, I make a request; to see the situation from my POV and how their words or actions were received.
Finally, I ask them to consider my feelings and decide if this is a relationship they want to stay invested in or walk away from.

I just did that last night. A friend wrote some hurtful things to me on Facebook via messaging and I waited a week to respond. Last night, I followed the pattern I wrote about above. Shortly after my response, I noticed she deleted me from her FB friends list and blocked me. So, at least now I know she is not a good friend. Because, a good friend would not give up when there is conflict. A good friend would try to work things out.

We should not be afraid to ask our friends to respect our feelings. Otherwise, what is the point of friendship?
  Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
Anonymous42119
sarahsweets
Threadtastic Postaholic
 
sarahsweets's Avatar
sarahsweets has no updates.
 
Member Since: Dec 2018
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 6,006 (SuperPoster!)
5 yr Member
192 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 16, 2019 at 10:42 AM
  #4
Hey @StreetcarBlanche! I do not think you are alone in this. I found an interesting article I would like to share:
EXAMPLE FROM ARTICLE:
Quote:
Then, the phone rings. Cringe. You know it’s your sister before you even look. She talks too much, you have a million things to do, and what if she starts ranting about her coworker again?! Blood pressure rising, you answer the phone. An hour later, you know all about her office nemesis, vacation plans, and dreams of an Etsy store. You feel flustered the rest of the day and angry the next because you have to wear dirty underwear (it was all in the last load you didn’t get to), and your dog stinks to high heaven. Anxiety has infiltrated your life—because you just couldn’t say “no.”
Quote:
One trigger for anxiety is a lack of boundaries, an inability to say “no” to things or people. Boundaries define who we are and who we are not. They dictate what we allow into our lives and what we keep out.
If you allow your sister to take up more time than you have to give, then you simply won’t have the time for what’s on your own plate. The natural feelings that result from this scenario are anxiety, feeling flustered, and agitation. You get what you allow.
Quote:

Reasons poor boundaries and anxiety go together.
So why does this happen? The subject of our example illustrates a common way poor boundaries yield anxiety. She felt as though she had to talk to her sister—almost as if she didn’t have a choice. Listening to her sister, making sure she didn’t feel disappointed, angry, or hurt (which the sister might have felt had our subject cut the conversation short) took priority over what she needed for own life—managing the to-do list and not overextending herself. She tried to make her sister happy and took responsibility for her sister’s feelings, blurring their boundaries. By doing something she didn’t want to do (talk for an hour), she effectively allowed herself to matter less than her sister. The result: anxiety. Does any of this sound familiar in your life?
Anxiety – A Problem with Boundaries - Watershed Counseling
I am not saying this article is perfect or spot on but I found it interesting. When you mentioned anxiety and boundaries I started thinking about it and googling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StreetcarBlanche View Post
I've been in and out of therapy for my anxiety condition since my 20s. And, now I'm nearly 50. I still get anxious when I have to set boundaries with people who act petty, or try to take advantage of me, scapegoat me, or verbally abuse me.

Why is it still so scary to set boundaries with people? I deserve to be treated with respect like everyone else. Yet, when people invade my boundaries in different ways, and I hold them accountable for their boundary invasion when I tell them they hurt my feelings etc.,. it feels so scary. And, I don't think it should feel scary since I know I"m standing up for myself.

I notice that really manipulative people HATE IT when I set strong boundaries with them. They try to gaslight me as a result, and tell me I'm too sensitive, or, tell me that I'm overreacting. When the reality is, they don't like that I value myself more than they value me.

Because, if I didn't value myself, I wouldn't set boundaries with people who try to take advantage or act petty or mean. Does anyone else feel this way?

__________________
"I carried a watermelon?"

President of the no F's given society.
sarahsweets is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
Anonymous42119
 
Thanks for this!
RoxanneToto, simplex
Anonymous48672
Guest
Anonymous48672 has no updates. Edit
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oct 16, 2019 at 11:54 AM
  #5
Awesome post, sarah! I will look into this more about the connection between anxiety and boundaries. I think you're on to something.
  Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
Anonymous42119
Anonymous42119
Guest
Anonymous42119 has no updates. Edit
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oct 22, 2019 at 05:53 PM
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by StreetcarBlanche View Post
Can you break off relationships that are toxic, unhealthy, or unbalanced in some way?

What I usually have done, is block the person on social media. And, I delete their phone number from my cell phone.

If, after I assert my boundary with the person and they refuse to accept it, and push back or gaslight me, I choose to walk away from that relationship.

I have done that with friends and with family members who I had unhealthy, unbalanced, toxic relationships with.

With my brother: he and his wife left me by the side of the road on a road trip to our uncle's funeral, b/c I would not put away a People magazine that was an awards issue. He claimed the actresses' dresses were 'temping him' (he has a porn addiction) and threatened to leave me by the side of the road, if I didn't put the magazine away (he was driving and I was in the passenger seat and his wife was sitting in the back seat with their baby at the time this happened). I refused to stop reading the magazine so he pulled over, grabbed me out of the passenger seat, and threw me out of his minivan with my duffel bag.

They eventually drove back an hour or so later as I walked along the highway somewhere in Iowa and I was terrified to speak out after that for the rest of the road trip. I borrowed money from a cousin and took a bus home after our uncle's funeral and I never forgot that abuse from my brother. He has been that way his entire life; he makes threats if you don't do as he wants and he follows through on his threats.

Can you minimize your contact with those who are toxic, unhealthy, or unbalanced?

Yes. I will block the person on social media and not contact them. Coworkers who are toxic, I try to avoid interacting with or I report them to a supervisor.

Sometimes, when I report a coworker's toxic behavior to a supervisor, the supervisor has pushed back, telling me not to create drama. When really, I feel like that supervisor just doesn't want to address the interpersonal conflict with myself and a coworker.

Did your relationships begin with a mutual respect of boundaries and then change later on? Why was that? Is there a way to get the relationship back to where it was?

Yes, sometimes past friendships or romantic relationships start off seemingly normal with a mutual respect of boundaries and then change later on to a toxic relationship.

Why?

I think because I choose people who reflect my family of origin members who are emotionally and verbally abusive to me; who gaslight me, who minimalize my feelings or responses to their toxic behavior so that they don't have to feel guilty or take responsibility for hurting my feelings. I choose emotionally unavailable friends and romantic relationships.

I've done DBT and CBT therapy for this (I don't have borderline personality disorder either) with my anxiety disorder. What I've been told is that I have low self esteem, and that I need practice stating my needs to the other person no matter how scary it is.

What has been done to try to get the relationships back on track, is me stating my needs (boundaries). Most of the time, people have chosen to accuse me of being 'too sensitive' and they just walk away. Or, they are so abusive verbally and have played mind games with me, that I walk away after I tell them that I deserve respect. I've been caught in narcissistic men's webs a lot so I try to avoid dating them which is hard.

What specific words, phrases, and responses are you frightened of when you assert your boundaries?

There's quite a few words, phrases, and responses that trigger my anxiety when I try to assert my boundaries with boundary invaders.

What specific words, phrases, tones, and body language are you utilizing when you assert your boundaries? Could they be rephrased differently?

I usually start off with "I like and respect you, and I need to talk to you about what you said/did to me recently, because it matters to me."

Then, I repeat the person's words or actions back to them.
Then, I tell them how their words or actions affected me.
Then, I make a request; to see the situation from my POV and how their words or actions were received.
Finally, I ask them to consider my feelings and decide if this is a relationship they want to stay invested in or walk away from.

I just did that last night. A friend wrote some hurtful things to me on Facebook via messaging and I waited a week to respond. Last night, I followed the pattern I wrote about above. Shortly after my response, I noticed she deleted me from her FB friends list and blocked me. So, at least now I know she is not a good friend. Because, a good friend would not give up when there is conflict. A good friend would try to work things out.

We should not be afraid to ask our friends to respect our feelings. Otherwise, what is the point of friendship?
@StreetcarBlanche

I've been meaning to respond to your thread, but barely found it just now. (I'm a superposter, so I probably have a lot of subscriptions to go through to find and respond to posts; sorry.).

Based on what you stated above, have you had "assertiveness training"? It's a form of therapy that helps to reduce your anxieties by getting used to asserting your boundaries, typically with role play with your T first and then with nonsignificant social situations (such as asking a waitress to get you an extra drink, or to replace something you had ordered), and then with significant anxiety-producing social situations. It's an escalation of desensitizing your fears/anxieties while trying to be assertive, which increases self-efficacy, psychological hardiness, and self-esteem in certain ways (maybe not all).

Also, the situation you described about the road trip is traumatic! First, even if you were to comply with the request of putting a magazine away, being told that someone you know has a
Possible trigger:
is a trigger in and of itself for those who have PTSD, etc. Although your brother was asserting his boundaries when he asked you to put away the magazine, it may be the way he asked you that was also rude, angry in tone, and triggering (even though he did, in fact, have a boundary that truly needed to be respected and heard). The reason behind him asking you that is a triggering topic, too, for some people (not all). Then, when you didn't comply with his request/boundary, he acted out in anger toward you - both verbally and physically, which is traumatic. The issue could have been resolved in a different way, such as (1) you putting the magazine away to respect his boundary, followed by (2) you stating that the topic he brought up was triggering to you, and that you need to assert some boundaries of your own, including, "From now on, when you have a boundary, you don't need to tell me the reason behind it." Also, in some cases, boundary requests can conflict with others' boundaries. Maybe you needed to read the magazine to relieve anxiety, so as to focus on something safe while you were in the car; that could have been your boundary that conflicted with your brother's boundary; both boundaries are okay to request, but they conflict with one another, which means that, in the future, you both have to limit your contact with one another (not necessarily end it, but just know that you cannot be in a situation where you have no escape plan to leave).

Part of asserting our boundaries are not just with other people; it's for ourselves, too. It's about a safe lifestyle change you make for you. In this case, you know that you need to be able to have enough money saved for escaping a potentially anxiety-producing and/or dangerous situation via a cab ride, an alternative transportation route, etc. You also need to have your cell battery fully charged in case you need to call police. Additionally, you can decide to schedule short visits with family while making your own plans for transportation to and from. If you cannot afford the travel that way, you can explain to your family that you simply cannot afford to come (I've had to do that). If your family offers to pay, ask up front whether or not this is a loan or a gift, and make sure that your family doesn't turn it around on you later, or use it against you later, by reiterating what they said (maybe keep a journal with toxic family members); I've had to do that with my own family before I made the decision to go NC (no contact). With friends, you can prepare in advance to have an exit plan if you feel uncomfortable with your surroundings. For instance, don't rely on friends giving you a ride to and from, since they may change their minds or not be willing to give you a ride home early if you don't feel like staying at an event. If you don't have the money or the means to do that, then you can decide not to go on such an outing with friends you don't completely trust (in such cases, they aren't your friends; they are probably acquaintances).

Finally, if you're noticing that a lot of the people you know in your life are treating you a certain way, such as gaslighting, scapegoating, etc., you have to ask yourself why you choose to make such friends, and if those choices stem from unconscious "familiarity" with the abuses you've had in your past. Making healthier friends would work best. It's not that you cannot be supportive to unhealthy people or acquaintances; you can. But rather, it is that you can limit your time and distance with potentially toxic acquaintances/family/friends while spending more time with safer others. Those safer others will not feel comfortable to you at first because they lack the subconscious familiarity we have with toxic others; most healthy people take time to get to know new people, so that may seem strange at first because toxic people tend to rush into relationships too quickly. Those are personal self-boundary issues only you can make; it's not the other person's responsibility to make those choices or to be the non-toxic person. Some people have not had enough treatments for their own behavioral problems, so they may be toxic and not realize it, even if you profusely acknowledge all of their toxic symptoms.

You deserve to feel safe. You can assert your own safety rules for yourself and assert your boundaries with others. You may be afraid of retaliatory behaviors from those whom you've asserted your boundaries with, or you may be afraid of further criticism, ridicule, and gaslighting (also forms of retaliation). If they are important people in power (or those whom you've given power in an otherwise parallel relationship, such as a friendship or significant other), then you may be afraid of rejection or relational loss (to me, not the same as abandonment, though some professionals will claim that this is related to a fear of abandonment). At any rate, your anxieties stem from fears that could be challenged in real life situations, not just in thoughts. You need practice to do so, not just recorded thoughts (though they help.

Try asking your T about "assertiveness training" and role play to help you desensitize from your fears. --That or other similar therapies might help you.

(((safe hugs)))
  Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
simplex
Member
simplex has no updates.
 
Member Since: Sep 2019
Location: Georgia
Posts: 52
3 yr Member
51 hugs
given
Default Oct 24, 2019 at 10:21 AM
  #7
Hello,

I have problems with this as well and am currently just realizing it's a problem for me at 34 years old.

I believe the anxiety you feel from boundary setting, is tied into sense of self-worth and self-esteem. In my experience, if I have sufficient healthy levels of those things, I find it easier to establish boundaries and assert myself. It's much more natural.
I also find it is easier to maintain them, and when they are tested, it reaffirms them, instead of making me question them. Though this is very much a work in progress for me.
Seems like you have the right idea with this post, in that you're reaffirming them to yourself which is a good thing.

Also, I believe it has to do with how we are wired. Do we have an internal or external locus of control?
Are our choices a result of external, or internal factors is what that means. Here's a bit more info:
Locus of Control and Your Life

Anonymous also has some good points as well with assertiveness training. I plan to look into that as well as I believe it's a source of a lot of my "problems/fears/anxiety."
simplex is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Fuzzybear
Wisest Elder Ever
 
Fuzzybear's Avatar
Fuzzybear has no updates.
 
Member Since: Nov 2002
Location: Cave.
Posts: 96,301 (SuperPoster!)
20 yr Member
81.2k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Jan 29, 2020 at 10:31 PM
  #8
I have experienced this also. Manipulative people hate it when I enforce a boundary and I respect myself more than they respect me. I can relate to anxiety re setting boundaries with people.


__________________
Fuzzybear is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
Anonymous48672
ShaneG
Account Suspended
ShaneG has no updates.
 
Member Since: Jul 2020
Location: Unknown
Posts: 707
3 yr Member
371 hugs
given
Default Oct 30, 2020 at 10:14 PM
  #9
Some really great advice and support shown here!

Remember you set boundaries for a reason, that's the whole point, if you separate you both don't go back to the same apartment right.

You need to be strong and stick to them.
ShaneG is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Anonymous45016
Guest
Anonymous45016 has no updates. Edit
 
Posts: n/a
Default Nov 04, 2020 at 08:15 PM
  #10
Everytime I set boundaries with people it makes me anxious
  Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Thanks for this!
RoxanneToto
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:56 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® — Copyright © 2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.



 

My Support Forums

My Support Forums is the online community that was originally begun as the Psych Central Forums in 2001. It now runs as an independent self-help support group community for mental health, personality, and psychological issues and is overseen by a group of dedicated, caring volunteers from around the world.

 

Helplines and Lifelines

The material on this site is for informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment provided by a qualified health care provider.

Always consult your doctor or mental health professional before trying anything you read here.