[2or3things]

Hi there.

I only read this section from time to time, and I don't think I've ever posted in this particular section. While I experienced CSA, I've felt "done" with working through that part of my life in therapy for a number of years, and have moved on to other issues.

Turns out I'm not 100% sure I am done with it, however. I've always thought that I remembered everything that happened to me in terms of the CSA, but lately some new things have surfaced. The thing is, I'm not sure if they're actual memories of something that happened or not. In the past I've sometimes wished that something worse had happened so I'd feel justified for being affected by it. (I know...pretty sick, right?) I've also always told myself that "As long as X didn't happen, it wasn't so bad." And maybe that was one way of surviving it all.

I feel terrible about the idea of thinking my abuser did something that he didn't. And it makes me feel sick to think that I'm thinking of gross stuff that didn't really happen. But I don't know if it did or didn't.

Can anyone relate? How have you handled it? What are the most important lessons about it all that you learned?

Anything you can share would be much appreciated. Thanks!

[benj1]

I can relate to those feelings. I often want to make it worse than it was when I talk about it to my T, to make sure that I am taken seriously. When I tried to tell about some of the things as a child, no one really cared. I guess I'm just scared that nobody will care about me.

I don't really have any advice to offer. They told me that I had a vivid imagination, i think that 's called gaslighting. Well, I still have issues with reality and I've got very few memories.

I've talked to a number of other survivors and I think what you describe is pretty typical. I second guess myself a lot. My husband actually cried yesterday about something I told him and I immediately thought I'd told the story 'wrong' or exaggerated somehow because in my head, it wasn't all that bad.

I think the reality is that unless someone breaks down and tells us, we may never know for sure.

[pbutton]

I constantly doubt myself. Constantly. Continuously. Repeatedly. I called myself a both a liar and a drama queen in my session yesterday. Why I would lie about it, I have no idea. It's not particularly fun, nor do ever seem to enjoy or benefit from anyone's reaction.

[Mommilady]

Wow. What you are all talking about is stuff I have done for years .... rationalizing, "forgetting", downplaying. Thank you all for sharing. I don't have much to add except that it took me a long time to accept that the loss of trust was the greatest damage done to me, even more than any specific acts and even if I couldn't remember all the details.

[2or3things]

Originally Posted by benj1

I can relate to those feelings. I often want to make it worse than it was when I talk about it to my T, to make sure that I am taken seriously. When I tried to tell about some of the things as a child, no one really cared. I guess I'm just scared that nobody will care about me.

Thanks for writing, Benj1. It sure can be difficult when we have so little to go on sometimes and when we feel we're not being heard and taken seriously.

I think for me it's not so much that I really want it to be worse as that I want to not be as affected as I have been by what actually did happen (or at least what I remember happening.) I have some idea in my head that it shouldn't have had as much of an impact on me as it seems to have if it was "only" certain types of abuse and not others.

Either way, it's pretty frustrating.

Thanks again for writing.

[2or3things]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

I've talked to a number of other survivors and I think what you describe is pretty typical. I second guess myself a lot. My husband actually cried yesterday about something I told him and I immediately thought I'd told the story 'wrong' or exaggerated somehow because in my head, it wasn't all that bad.

I think the reality is that unless someone breaks down and tells us, we may never know for sure.

Do you have any sense of if those folks are usually right when they unearth other memories? I don't know why I'm so hung up on being "fair" to my abuser. (More issues to dive into with T, I suppose. ) Anyway, I guess the hardest part is just not knowing exactly what happened, and maybe never finding out.

I know what you mean about feeling like you'd told the story wrong. When I talk about it, my partner seems more affected by it than I am. And my T keeps talking about me needing to get angry about it. I just never have. I mean, I know that what happened wasn't good. I know if it happened to my daughter, I'd probably have to kill someone. But for me and what happened, it's just sort of "Eh. Yeah. Not the best time in my life, but it's fine." Is that how you feel?

Thanks for your input. Much appreciated!

[2or3things]

Originally Posted by pbutton

I constantly doubt myself. Constantly. Continuously. Repeatedly. I called myself a both a liar and a drama queen in my session yesterday. Why I would lie about it, I have no idea. It's not particularly fun, nor do ever seem to enjoy or benefit from anyone's reaction.

Thanks, Putton! And I sort of know what you mean. By late last night I convinced myself that I'm just lying. Though I'll probably change my mind, for now I feel like I just can't talk to T anymore about what I feel like I might be remembering. I feel like I'm just making it up, maybe from something I read years ago or...I dunno...why knows why.

Any thoughts on why you'd make stuff up? (Though I'm convinced I am, and though I don't know you from Adam, I'm SURE you're not making things up. Odd, no?) Probably more important, any idea why you might be saying you're making things up if it's not the case?

Not to tax you or force you to answer questions you don't want to. I just think it's really interesting, and I suspect you're being too hard on yourself.

[2or3things]

Originally Posted by Mommilady

Wow. What you are all talking about is stuff I have done for years .... rationalizing, "forgetting", downplaying. Thank you all for sharing. I don't have much to add except that it took me a long time to accept that the loss of trust was the greatest damage done to me, even more than any specific acts and even if I couldn't remember all the details.

I think this is such a good, healthy attitude to have taken on. I mean, I always think I'm the exception to the rule, but it seems to me that if you get past the need for specifics and acknowledge the impact of whatever happened, you're headed in the right direction.

Still, why this need to know for sure? You know what I mean?

Thanks for writing, Mommilady!

Originally Posted by 2or3things

Do you have any sense of if those folks are usually right when they unearth other memories? I don't know why I'm so hung up on being "fair" to my abuser. (More issues to dive into with T, I suppose. ) Anyway, I guess the hardest part is just not knowing exactly what happened, and maybe never finding out.

There were two things that I was SURE not even my mother would have done and I must have been making it up. Found out fairly recently from my sisters that one of those things was true. After my dad died, my aunt mentioned the gun incident I was sure I was making up and how much it scared her and she wasn't sure that I was going to live through my childhood. So, I know those two things are true. And I also know the conviction I had growing up that I really and truly might die at my parents' hands was also true.

In reference to other survivors, some just never get that validation. Somehow they figure out how to live with the uncertainty. This is something that your T should be able to help you with.

Oh, and the eh, it wasn't great, but I'm fine thing is exactly my attitude. My T kept using my daughter as an example to show me what happened to me was a big deal, but I had a fit about it and made him stop.

[Mommilady]

Originally Posted by 2or3things

I think this is such a good, healthy attitude to have taken on. I mean, I always think I'm the exception to the rule, but it seems to me that if you get past the need for specifics and acknowledge the impact of whatever happened, you're headed in the right direction.

Still, why this need to know for sure? You know what I mean?

Thanks for writing, Mommilady!

I do know what you mean. In my case the abuse started when I was really young. Some of my memories of it are very sharp and distinct and others are pretty hazy. When I first told people about it, (trusted family and my first T) they wanted to know specific details and I couldn't remember them all with 100% accuracy. I got very frustrated with myself that I couldn't remember every incident equally completely. It felt like that fact allowed other people to question the severity of what happened to me or whether I was making things up.

It took me some time to feel angry about this....it was and is not my responsibility to give anyone a play-by-play. The fallout I've spent the rest of my life dealing with is not related to exactly what my abuser did or did not do to me or the fact that "it could have been worse." What I do remember is bad enough.

[pbutton]

Originally Posted by 2or3things

Any thoughts on why you'd make stuff up? (Though I'm convinced I am, and though I don't know you from Adam, I'm SURE you're not making things up. Odd, no?) Probably more important, any idea why you might be saying you're making things up if it's not the case?

Totally TMI and much longer than I had originally planned. Everyone feel free to skip over this post. Sorry.

I agree - I am SURE everyone else in the thread is telling the truth. I'm the only lying liarly liar here.

I feel like I am doing it because the things I remember are SO vague. It's like I am trying to put together puzzle pieces and build an excuse for why I've always been so strange. I have weird thoughts, don't like to be touched, have HATED my Uncle since I was a TINY child, I have intrusive flashbacks of locations and objects, a certain street in the city where my uncle's office was. I used to want to really hurt people when I was a child. I wanted shrink adults, put them in jars and shake the jars so that they hurt too. I have nightmares like crazy. I get a gross feeling every time I go to a family function. It doesn't even have to be my family. Big crowds of family make me feel like I am being taken advantage of & used in an inappropriate way. I can't have anything wrong with my stomach/back/groin area. I get a UTI and I start having panic attacks.

Thus, I am trying to explain away all of my weirdness by trying to say something bad happened to me. I can't just step up and say that I'm a horrible weird person. Instead I am trying to make it not my fault.

Right now I am trying to hang on to the memory when I was 5 and my uncle came back from college. I didn't want to see him again. I hid in my room. They forced me to come out and see him because he had bought me gifts. He gave me gum. I cut it up with scissors. He also gave me markers and a bank. I scribbled with the black marker all over the bank & got into trouble for that.

I can say that 36 year old me is lying and trying to escape blame. But I do have a small amount of difficulty blaming that angry 5 year old. I remember how UNFAIR it felt and there was nothing I could do about it. Totally helpless.

Sorry this got so long. There's stuff in here T hasn't heard. I should probably give him a copy. But he didn't answer my last email and I feel too needy now. UGH.

[Mommilady]

Originally Posted by pbutton

I have weird thoughts, don't like to be touched, have HATED my Uncle since I was a TINY child, I have intrusive flashbacks of locations and objects, a certain street in the city where my uncle's office was. I used to want to really hurt people when I was a child. I wanted shrink adults, put them in jars and shake the jars so that they hurt too. I have nightmares like crazy. I get a gross feeling every time I go to a family function. It doesn't even have to be my family. Big crowds of family make me feel like I am being taken advantage of & used in an inappropriate way. I can't have anything wrong with my stomach/back/groin area. I get a UTI and I start having panic attacks.

OK, I am NO expert, but these seem to be hallmarks of abuse. You may have buried the memories as a way of dealing with them. But the aftermath you describe seems to indicate that something did happen to you when you were little.

Right now I am trying to hang on to the memory when I was 5 and my uncle came back from college. I didn't want to see him again. I hid in my room. They forced me to come out and see him because he had bought me gifts. He gave me gum. I cut it up with scissors. He also gave me markers and a bank. I scribbled with the black marker all over the bank & got into trouble for that.

I can say that 36 year old me is lying and trying to escape blame. But I do have a small amount of difficulty blaming that angry 5 year old. I remember how UNFAIR it felt and there was nothing I could do about it. Totally helpless.

I agree. The adult you may try to downplay or deny, but the 5-year-old.....I would trust those memories, that little girl is trying to tell you something.

Sorry this got so long. There's stuff in here T hasn't heard. I should probably give him a copy. But he didn't answer my last email and I feel too needy now. UGH.

I'm sorry you didn't hear back from your T. I think he needs to know what you shared with us here, when you are ready to share it with him.

[Open Eyes]

I have come to realize that some of the childhood memories I have are really just that, the memories of a child. And because children do not have the words or understandings of a lot of things, there can be this wonder if these memories are true or accurate. But at least for me, I had a lot of flashbacks and came to realize that I could not have made them up and the way they came to me are actually just the way a child would see or understand them to be.

I am still AMAZED at what came up in flashbacks and how far back they went. I have a flashback body memory where I am in my crib. Wow, was it so upsetting to experience too. It was the most troubling flashback I ever experienced. I don't see me in my flashbacks, I feel it and see what is around me. So it is not like watching a movie where I can see me at all. It is actually a replay of what I saw and felt. It is so troubling because I was so upset and frightened and I am that child. In this one flashback though, I can see my crib and part of the room but I cannot see who is hurting me. And I don't think it is an adult because in my flashback I am looking up and there is nothing there.

I asked my mother where I slept in a crib before I had my own room, because I remember my own room but in my flashback I am not there, I am in a different room.
Her reply was that I shared a room with my sister when I was an infant. I have a feeling it was my sister hurting me somehow, and that would make sense because she would have not been where I was looking as she would have only been between 4 or 5 at the time. And later on I do remember her doing things to me because I was older and in my flashbacks I could see better because I was a little older.

I do know that when my brother was small my sister wanted/tried to kill him. My sister did not like sharing my parents. Some children really struggle to adjust when a new child is brought into their world.

It is really hard to look at childhood abuse sometimes because children don't understand very much so you are remembering things that ARE THAT CHILD that went through the experiences.

I know I could not have made this stuff up the way it came to me in flashbacks. It has taken me a while to sort it all out though. It takes me a while to calm down after I experience these flashbacks because as I mentioned, I can feel everything and it is very hard on me. And I really wish I didn't know or remember this to be honest.

Open Eyes

[Open Eyes]

Ok, so here I am right now struggling. After I wrote this I had it again and I just don't know what to do about it. I KNOW THIS IS REAL and it is so dibilatating and upsetting. I want my mom SO BAD and I AM SO UPSET in this. I REALLY WISH I COULD CALL MY MOM AND TELL HER SOMEHOW TOO. And a lot of times when I do talk to my mother I end up crying. I wish I could tell her but I don't want to upset her as she is 86 and it might upset her too much. It is just like she is right there and I want to tell her so badly you know? And then I feel like I wish I didn't know this or it wasn't true too. I think what good would it do because she can't tell me what happened, she wasn't there.

Has anyone ask their T about this? Why do we have to experience these things?
I don't want to remember this, it is just too upsetting and it wipes me out.

Open Eyes

[2or3things]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Why do we have to experience these things?
I don't want to remember this, it is just too upsetting and it wipes me out.

I don't know why it happens, but I'm so, so sorry you're hurting right now. Gentle hugs to you.

[2or3things]

Originally Posted by pbutton

I can say that 36 year old me is lying and trying to escape blame. But I do have a small amount of difficulty blaming that angry 5 year old. I remember how UNFAIR it felt and there was nothing I could do about it. Totally helpless.

Go with that. There's nothing she could have done, and you know she can't be blamed.

And you were she once, so you can't either. You're just in charge of getting the both of you where you want to go now. And I've read lots that you write, and I KNOW you can do it.

I do hope you'll consider sharing some of this with your T. Could be a good thing for you, no?