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Exclamation Apr 25, 2019 at 07:04 PM
  #1
People can be a narcissist but not diagnosed because they think nothing is wrong with them. This was an eye opener..like my ex the nice and charming guy he was in the beginning wasn’t who he really was but it was to get me hooked..then did a 360 months later..don’t see how he was in a relationship for years..then again, I don’t keep my mouth shut I voice my concerns which they don’t like

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Default Apr 25, 2019 at 08:48 PM
  #2
I’d not diagnose other people. It doesn’t really matter what’s his diagnosis. What’s matter is not to ignore red flags. Focus on that.
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Default Apr 26, 2019 at 02:40 PM
  #3
I’ve been hurt by people in real life who seemed “nice” to get me to trust them but then turned into cruel bullies. They turned “on a dime” They can be relentless. Its a good idea to be aware of red flags

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Default Apr 26, 2019 at 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Gymgirl71 View Post
People can be a narcissist but not diagnosed because they think nothing is wrong with them. This was an eye opener..like my ex the nice and charming guy he was in the beginning wasn’t who he really was but it was to get me hooked..then did a 360 months later..don’t see how he was in a relationship for years..then again, I don’t keep my mouth shut I voice my concerns which they don’t like

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It's good to be informed about their tactics so you know how to counter it. I think you are doing the right thing by educating and protecting yourself.
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Default Apr 28, 2019 at 09:15 AM
  #5

Last edited by Open Eyes; Apr 28, 2019 at 10:01 AM..
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Default Apr 28, 2019 at 11:59 AM
  #6
Labeling is not always the accurate thing to do. My EX-Presented with many behaviors that seemed narcissistic to the point I thought maybe.....but in reality when I was directed toward a different possibility & did my research those behaviors fit many different possible labels & yes what I figured out what I had been dealing with for so many years....the research books said YES, their behaviors from that condition can manifest themselves as narcissistic characteristics.

Bottom line.....as Divine said.....it is better to focus on behaviors & the red flags they should be causing so you can learn to counter. We need to be proactive against behaviors rather than labels

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Default Apr 28, 2019 at 09:58 PM
  #7
It's true because there are mental illnesses that can appear to have "some" narcissistic symptoms, but may actually turn out to be someone struggling with alcoholism AND may be using that to self medicate from experiencing severe narcissistic abuse. A lot of alcoholics, not all, but many of them get sober and then begin suffering all the symptoms of ptsd. I have had three different therapists tell me that who treat these patients.
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Default May 02, 2019 at 03:28 PM
  #8
Personally.. I think those who aren’t diagnosed or who are in “denial” ... well let’s just leave it at that


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Default May 02, 2019 at 04:42 PM
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My perspective (as someone who left an abusive husband) is that the antidote to unhealthy relationships is strengthening and honoring the Self. At one point after I ended my marriage, my psychologist suggested to me that if I'd had healthy self-esteem back when I first met him, I never would have stayed with him and married him. I don't mind telling you that at the time, I found that comment offensive....because I had low to zero self-esteem having grown up with an abusive father and a very unhealthy family.

However, as my therapy progressed I came to see how accurate the psychologist was. So what's my point? If we put the time and work in on ourselves (rather than placing all the energy on hypervigilance) it will become very clear and comfortable to us when a man is safe and healthy to partner with and when we need to say goodbye. I am not at all suggesting that this is easy or simple. But it can be done.

I used to be hypervigilant. I live with PTSD as a result of childhood abuse and spousal abuse, but over time I feel stronger and more trusting of myself. If a friend or anyone else is not treating me respectfully, I will draw a line and move on. I will not accept disrespect or blame myself. Yes, it is helpful for any survivor to learn the signs of an abusive partner. That certainly helped me and was shockingly eye-opening. Though I don't think it's helpful to focus on particular diagnoses and constant defense. At a certain point, we very much need to focus on our selves....what are our strengths and challenges....what are we drawn to etc.

When the focus is all on constant hypervigilance and trying to live in a world where dysfunctional people never enter our lives (not possible) I think it's harder to become stronger and learn to trust and rely on ourselves. For example, sometimes I think the anti-bullying programs in schools have the wrong idea. I think they'd be more successful in teaching children how to honor and respect themselves.....to develop self-esteem....there's no such thing as a bully-free school or world....we need to learn how to navigate it and how to love ourselves such that we don't crumple or blame ourselves any time we meet a dysfunctional person.

When I started dating again after my abusive ex-husband, (I waited a long time and spent a great deal of money out of pocket to know and understand myself better in therapy) I was terrified that I would choose another similar partner. I am now in a relationship with a good guy and I can honestly say that if someone tried to abuse me again, it simply wouldn't fly. So, from my perspective, the goal shouldn't be to somehow ensure that we never ever go an a date with someone dysfunctional (the problem often won't show right away anyway) but to learn what we value and what we don't.....what is okay to accept and what is not. Does that make any sense to others? Perhaps I am rambling...I feel a bit raggedy today from depression.

I suppose my main point is that when the focus of our thoughts and analysis is all on the abuser and his pathology or on the possible pathology of future partners, I think we are focusing on the wrong person. Take a high level of narcissism for example. If you really value and honor yourself, and you find yourself dating someone who doesn't consider or value your feelings....you won't stay, right? Hours and hours of research on NPD wouldn't actually lead you to that point though.

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Default May 02, 2019 at 05:11 PM
  #10
Awesome post @SilverTrees.

This is exactly how I see it too. I actually wish the guy I had married had been not just financially irresponsible & didn't just have a personality that came across many times as "what in the #@[[ is wrong with you". I recognized abuse & controlling guys & totally stayed away from them all my life.....but subtle stuff that was just "not quite normal" but totally messed up life was harder to recognize because it wasn't intentional emotional abuse either though that is how it came across many times.

When I had enough to where I could not tolerate any more & gave up on the possibility of therapy being able to fix his problem I LEFT. Takes courage for sure moving as far away as I did & not knowing anyone where I moved to.....but a wonderful chance to start life all over at 54.

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Default May 02, 2019 at 05:36 PM
  #11
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Originally Posted by eskielover View Post
Awesome post @SilverTrees.

This is exactly how I see it too. I actually wish the guy I had married had been not just financially irresponsible & didn't just have a personality that came across many times as "what in the #@[[ is wrong with you". I recognized abuse & controlling guys & totally stayed away from them all my life.....but subtle stuff that was just "not quite normal" but totally messed up life was harder to recognize because it wasn't intentional emotional abuse either though that is how it came across many times.

When I had enough to where I could not tolerate any more & gave up on the possibility of therapy being able to fix his problem I LEFT. Takes courage for sure moving as far away as I did & not knowing anyone where I moved to.....but a wonderful chance to start life all over at 54.
Thank you for the kind words and for sharing your truth. I understand you very well. When I left my husband, I was completely alone. He had the money and connections. It was frightening. It felt like jumping off the side of a cliff without a parachute. And there were certainly some very painful bumps along the way, but it was the right thing for me and I never look back.

My psychologist said it's very rare for anyone to leave a marriage in order to be alone (as opposed to via an affair) and I really beat the odds because I never went back to him. Though I have full compassion for women who leave/return/leave/return because abuse affects a person's decision-making processes and it is dangerous when women leave abusers. The first 6 months in particular. No sense sugar-coating it. That's why restraining orders and professional support are so important. I never called the police once while I was with him but as soon as I involved them when I left, he towed the line very quickly. Interesting how some men will treat their wives but would never dare try anything of the sort with another man....particularly one with a badge and a gun.

it makes me smile to think of your freedom and fresh start at 54, Eskielover. Well done for having the courage and resilience. Perhaps your post will inspire others!
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Default May 02, 2019 at 06:01 PM
  #12
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Labeling is not always the accurate thing to do. My EX-Presented with many behaviors that seemed narcissistic to the point I thought maybe.....but in reality when I was directed toward a different possibility & did my research those behaviors fit many different possible labels & yes what I figured out what I had been dealing with for so many years....the research books said YES, their behaviors from that condition can manifest themselves as narcissistic characteristics.

Bottom line.....as Divine said.....it is better to focus on behaviors & the red flags they should be causing so you can learn to counter. We need to be proactive against behaviors rather than labels
I agree with this.. we need to protect ourselves against red flags and behaviours rather than labels..

I’ve also found that in my experience labels aren’t always accurate

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Default May 02, 2019 at 06:20 PM
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I agree with this.. we need to protect ourselves against red flags and behaviours rather than labels..

I’ve also found that in my experience labels aren’t always accurate
So very true Fuzzy even in trying to sort through the behaviors we are dealing with many behaviors manifest themselves through so many different MH issues & they are things that never change in them. Sometimes they can't & sometimes they just don't want to so all we can do is take care of ourself & learn how to be strong by learning. skills to take care of ourself. The difference between surviving & thriving in spite of our past.

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Default May 02, 2019 at 06:31 PM
  #14
I know you are sad and it’s normal but I encourage you to look at the positives here! You didn’t become dependent on a man the way many women are, didn’t expect him to pay your bills, didn’t marry him to cure loneliness, you didn’t move in, you didn’t stay for years.

You dated him for few months, he was no good so you left fast. It’s all very positive and puts you in a position of power. Strong and independent. Sure you had some doubts but you did it.

Times when women stayed in bad or not so good relationships are over long time.. Many women leave relationships and marriages if their needs are not met. You did it and I applaud you.

Women don’t NEED a man. It’s great to have one if he is wonderful. But “want” isn’t “need”

There are ton of great things you can do in life that don’t include men. Oh and from my understanding you are a single mother. So you are already stronger than many. Hugs

So please look at the positives here!
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