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Trig May 27, 2019 at 02:04 PM
  #1
My family bullied me so much I not only ended up clinically depressed and burdened with Complex PTSD, I became learning impaired and have traumatic amnesia. I have written what I remember from my childhood and it didn't even take 3 pages. The rest is locked up in my memory that I may never retrieve.

My family taught me to bully others and when I did, the behavior came out of nowhere. I remember one neighborhood girl I was horrid to. I remember saying to her what my mother and sisters said to me day in and day out. I made that poor child cry and I remember feeling bad about that. I didn't know what to do. I thought her behavior justified my talking to her the way I did.

That is just one snapshot of my background. I am not looking for sympathy. I am simply sharing why I became a bully like my mother and my sisters. I was their victim first, but I became a bully also. I would give anything if I could go back and change it.

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Smile May 27, 2019 at 02:55 PM
  #2
Thanks for sharing this. In my life, I have been both the victim as well as the perpetrator, the abuser as well as the abused. I don't have much memory of my life prior to the age of 8, only a handful of snippets. Plus, now as I'm aging, I'm gradually losing more-&-more of what I remember after age 8. (There is a sense in which that's not a bad thing.)

I have sometimes wondered if it wouldn't be easier just to be a victim. At least that way you'd know it wasn't your fault. And there'd be someone else you could blame. In my case, the abuse I suffered (which wasn't all that terribly serious in the whole scheme of things... others have suffered significantly worse) has been overwhelmed by what I later on meted out. Like you, I would give anything to be able to go back & change it. But, of course, I can't.

I used to have an on-line friend (my only friend of any sort in the world... until I dumped him a while back.) He was a Christian. (I'm a devout atheist.) He knew something of my history. And he used to tell me that to forgive oneself was possible. I, for my part however, maintained (& still maintain) that some things are sufficiently egregious self-forgiveness is not appropriate. Rather... what I have strived for is simple acceptance. I did what I did. It's in the past. And there's nothing I can do about it now. End of story.

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Default May 27, 2019 at 05:21 PM
  #3
@Skeezyks

I thank you for your response.

I don't understand this sentence: "I, for my part however, maintained (& still maintain) that some things are sufficiently egregious self-forgiveness is not appropriate."

Explain, please.

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Default May 27, 2019 at 06:21 PM
  #4
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Originally Posted by Skeezyks View Post
Thanks for sharing this. In my life, I have been both the victim as well as the perpetrator, the abuser as well as the abused. I don't have much memory of my life prior to the age of 8, only a handful of snippets. Plus, now as I'm aging, I'm gradually losing more-&-more of what I remember after age 8. (There is a sense in which that's not a bad thing.)


I have sometimes wondered if it wouldn't be easier just to be a victim. At least that way you'd know it wasn't your fault. And there'd be someone else you could blame. In my case, the abuse I suffered (which wasn't all that terribly serious in the whole scheme of things... others have suffered significantly worse) has been overwhelmed by what I later on meted out. Like you, I would give anything to be able to go back & change it. But, of course, I can't.


I used to have an on-line friend (my only friend of any sort in the world... until I dumped him a while back.) He was a Christian. (I'm a devout atheist.) He knew something of my history. And he used to tell me that to forgive oneself was possible. I, for my part however, maintained (& still maintain) that some things are sufficiently egregious self-forgiveness is not appropriate. Rather... what I have strived for is simple acceptance. I did what I did. It's in the past. And there's nothing I can do about it now. End of story.
I think your friend, the Christian, was very conscious of the fact that you cannot forgive yourself. The nice point about Christianity is that you can turn to Jesus, and he forgives you. That way you can be forgiven and still stay humble and conscious of your past. I am not, myself, religious, but I deeply care for this idea that there needs to be a gentle father, an anti-authoritarian authority, a place were everybody who repents can find forgiveness.
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Default May 27, 2019 at 06:41 PM
  #5
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@Skeezyks

I thank you for your response.

I don't understand this sentence: "I, for my part however, maintained (& still maintain) that some things are sufficiently egregious self-forgiveness is not appropriate."

Explain, please.
Hm-m-m-m...well... I'm just of the opinion that some things people do (some things I did) are sufficiently destructive it would not be appropriate for the person to forgive themselves. The persons they harmed can forgive them if they so choose. That's their prerogative. But the person who caused the damage to begin with has no business forgiving themselves. Of course I'm talking about seriously destructive acts here, not the lesser things we all do from time-to-time that we later regret. I've been guilty of those sorts of things as well.

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Default May 27, 2019 at 06:43 PM
  #6
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My family bullied me so much I not only ended up clinically depressed and burdened with Complex PTSD, I became learning impaired and have traumatic amnesia. I have written what I remember from my childhood and it didn't even take 3 pages. The rest is locked up in my memory that I may never retrieve.


My family taught me to bully others and when I did, the behavior came out of nowhere. I remember one neighborhood girl I was horrid to. I remember saying to her what my mother and sisters said to me day in and day out. I made that poor child cry and I remember feeling bad about that. I didn't know what to do. I thought her behavior justified my talking to her the way I did.


That is just one snapshot of my background. I am not looking for sympathy. I am simply sharing why I became a bully like my mother and my sisters. I was their victim first, but I became a bully also. I would give anything if I could go back and change it.
I come from a dysfunctional family, in which alcoholism and abuse have played significant roles. I have been a victim in many ways, but I am deeply conscious of how I myself have been formed by abuse and my stress, my coping mechanisms etc. have been perceived by people I loved as abusive.

I have had many frightening experiences with drinkers. Drunken people can be the most horrible people on earth. I am now visiting regularly a group of abstaining alcoholics. I am a bit of a curious figure, because I have mental problems, but am not an alcoholic, but I fell drawn to this circle, and always feel better and a little bit happier after the 90 minutes I have spent with them.

I feel like I am among the most gentle people on earth, there. It has something to do with being repentant, I think, and also the true nature and history of abuse of most alcoholics. By seeing the error in their former ways, they also learn to grapple all questions of guilt and abuse for the first time in their lives, I feel. I have no trouble believing that you are now a person who found her self, and a person to turn to, if one wants to experience relieve of pain instead of more pain and abuse.
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Default May 27, 2019 at 06:51 PM
  #7
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Hm-m-m-m...well... I'm just of the opinion that some things people do (some things I did) are sufficiently destructive it would not be appropriate for the person to forgive themselves. The persons they harmed can forgive them if they so choose. That's their prerogative. But the person who caused the damage to begin with has no business forgiving themselves. Of course I'm talking about seriously destructive acts here, not the lesser things we all do from time-to-time that we later regret. I've been guilty of those sorts of things as well.
Sometimes, you feel devastating guilt, and you are ready to ask for forgiveness, but you cannot count on the injured party to forgive you. They want to see you punished, and punish you with not giving you what you need. You still need forgiveness, but you cannot and feel you should not forgive yourself. This is where a third party is needed. Someone, ideally on a higher plane, to give you what you need in order to become a better person. That is why many people become actually better by finding religion. Some manage to become better and obtain forgiveness without religion, they learn to forgive themselves, no matter how horrible and shaming the guilt.
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Default May 27, 2019 at 07:06 PM
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Sometimes, you feel devastating guilt, and you are ready to ask for forgiveness, but you cannot count on the injured party to forgive you. They want to see you punished, and punish you with not giving you what you need. You still need forgiveness, but you cannot and feel you should not forgive yourself. This is where a third party is needed. Someone, ideally on a higher plane, to give you what you need in order to become a better person. That is why many people become actually better by finding religion. Some manage to become better and obtain forgiveness without religion, they learn to forgive themselves, no matter how horrible and shaming the guilt.
Thanks for this. I don't believe in god & so religion is pretty-much irrelevant to me. I'm afraid I function on quite a nuts-&-bolts level... "you did it, you're stuck with it, live with it." That's all...

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Default May 28, 2019 at 12:09 AM
  #9
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My family taught me to bully others and when I did, the behavior came out of nowhere. I remember one neighborhood girl I was horrid to. I remember saying to her what my mother and sisters said to me day in and day out. I made that poor child cry and I remember feeling bad about that. I didn't know what to do. I thought her behavior justified my talking to her the way I did.
What happened in your child was not your fault. You did the right thing as an adult by seeking therapy.
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Default May 28, 2019 at 10:33 AM
  #10
Thanks for sharing Happy Crafter. I’ve been bullied by many. From early cub hood onwards CPTSD and Social anxiety I have doesn’t help The abuse in your childhood (and mine) was not your fault (and the abuse in my childhood wasn’t my fault ) I agree you did the right thing going into therapy. I’m very happy that therapy helped you. I’m sending hugs and kind thoughts

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Default May 28, 2019 at 11:21 AM
  #11
The insight you offer others is absolutely invaluable. You are a rare person who has taken great pains to look at your own behaviors and emotions and really make a change in what you do. You’ve really taken ownership and accountability... just your testimony of your life is powerful. You know the reasons for your painful and difficult past but I haven’t seen you wallow in self pity and blame. Instead you always strive to help others. You show others the way... how to work on taking their own pain away. Your compassion is real. I admire your courage. You’ve inspired me. Keep going. As a recovering alcoholic bully, I wish I could take all of your pain away
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Smile May 28, 2019 at 02:33 PM
  #12
@Sisabel



Thank you, Sisabel! Your kind words made my day!!

You know, when I see someone benefit from something I did or said, I see them blossom right in front of my eyes. That thrills me more than anything I have done in my 62 years of life. I thrive on that!

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Default May 28, 2019 at 02:45 PM
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@Sisabel





Thank you, Sisabel! Your kind words made my day!!


You know, when I see someone benefit from something I did or said, I see them blossom right in front of my eyes. That thrills me more than anything I have done in my 62 years of life. I thrive on that!


I can see that in what you write here. You’re making a difference. Thank you. As a recovering alcoholic bully, I wish I could take all of your pain awayAs a recovering alcoholic bully, I wish I could take all of your pain awayAs a recovering alcoholic bully, I wish I could take all of your pain away
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Default May 28, 2019 at 05:30 PM
  #14
It is My Pleasure!!

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Default May 29, 2019 at 09:09 PM
  #15
Dear Happy Crafter and Skeezyks,

I had tears in my eyes when I read your poignant notes on this thread. I am deeply struck by your candor, courage, and resilience.

Like you Skeeyzks, I too am an atheist. And I just want to share my own personal world view. I believe that every human has value. It is of no more or less value compared to any other human. We all came from stardust.
This does not change with external behavior. Whether egregious or otherwise. I can find it within my atheist spirit (I believe there is such a thing, unrelated to religion or a god) to find compassion for any person.

I do not share about my work on PC for several reasons. But I want to say that I have met and cared for humans whose histories would likely make a lot of people feel fearful or enraged or disturbed. I looked for light in each of them. Most of the time, I found some light. When I could not find any light, I still wished them peace.

My father's behavior was appalling. He enjoyed tormenting myself and my siblings. He smiled each time he felt a victory by frightening us or making us feel like nothing. He lived out his days in deep bitterness and rage. I separated myself from him for many years before he died. But when he was dying, I consulted with a pharmacist and MD to give him an anxiety med because I knew he'd be terrified in the hospital. And I knew he would never ask for it himself. Nobody should have to die in fear or unmanaged pain, not even a man who abused his wife and children for most of his life. I flew a long way and sat next to him while his life ended. I carried him in his coffin on his final journey to the grave. I did not love him. I did not even like him on a basic level. But I was able to wish him a peaceful death. Not as a loving daughter, but simply as a human. My life has no more or less value than the life of my father.

For me, it truly does not matter what either one of you has done in your past. I still firmly believe that you deserve peace in your present and future. You are sincerely two of the brightest lights I have encountered on PC. Both of you have made me smile and brought me solace including on some of my darkest days. Your pasts simply cannot erase that.

I have no idea why I exist. But I feel quite sure that it is not my purpose on Earth to decide who is worthy of peace and who is not. Therefore, my default is that everyone deserves peace. Including people who have done some terrible things in their lives.

"There are no good people and bad people. There are only joyful people and miserable people. Each of us is perpetually oscillating between darkness and light."
- Sadhguru

(Ps. I only combined this message for both of you because I am sad and tired this eve but wanted to reach out....I still respect you as individuals)

Last edited by Anonymous44076; May 30, 2019 at 01:01 AM..
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Default May 29, 2019 at 09:47 PM
  #16
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But I feel quite sure that it is not my purpose on Earth to decide who is worthy of peace and who is not. Therefore, my default is that everyone deserves peace. Including people who have done some terrible things in their lives.

"There are no good people and bad people. They are only joyful people and miserable people. Each of us is perpetually oscillating between darkness and light."
- Sadhguru
SilverTrees, for being tired, these are some really good quotes.

Yes, Happy Crafter and Skeezyks bring so much good to PC. I remember that Skeezyks was the first one to send me a welcome message when I joined in 2016. I remember when HappyCrafter asked me to be a friend under a different username.

There are many good people here at PC. Many of us are trying to overcome trauma, gain understanding, connect to others, vent frustrations and so much more.

I understand what it is to be ashamed. I didn't protect my children adequately at times. I bumbled so much and am still bumbling things. I am still trying to help them recover but it is much harder when you miss opportunities. I can forgive myself if I make amends. I feel good about myself when I do the right thing but it is so important to reach out for help from others when you are overwhelmed. So many of us lead isolated lives and the little spark we can sometimes give each other can make us see more clearly a better path.

Peace to all.
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SilverTrees, for being tired, these are some really good quotes.

Yes, Happy Crafter and Skeezyks bring so much good to PC. I remember that Skeezyks was the first one to send me a welcome message when I joined in 2016. I remember when HappyCrafter asked me to be a friend under a different username.

There are many good people here at PC. Many of us are trying to overcome trauma, gain understanding, connect to others, vent frustrations and so much more.

I understand what it is to be ashamed. I didn't protect my children adequately at times. I bumbled so much and am still bumbling things. I am still trying to help them recover but it is much harder when you miss opportunities. I can forgive myself if I make amends. I feel good about myself when I do the right thing but it is so important to reach out for help from others when you are overwhelmed. So many of us lead isolated lives and the little spark we can sometimes give each other can make us see more clearly a better path.

Peace to all.
Tuned Out, this is a wonderful message. Thank you for the kind words.

I like your use of "bumble" and "bumbling." That sounds like me. My whole life I've been sort of bumbling along and just trying to do my best.

Yes, excellent point about isolation....so true for many of us bumblers!

Peace and hope to you and your children. I am glad you can forgive yourself. You deserve it
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Default May 30, 2019 at 04:22 AM
  #18
Happy crafter when I first read this I thought: " I am an alcoholic in recovery and I was not a bully..." but then I had to think about it for a minute. The chaos I brought with me was the same as bullying. Accusing my husband of dumping my alcohol when I had forgotten where I hid it or drank it up, fighting, letting my middle daughter get in the middle of our fights. Taking off when I didnt get my way, spending money we didnt have on alcohol, the lying. It was emotional bullying. There was no physical violence but I attribute that to my gentle husband. Any other man might have lost it with me. Making the whole family revolve around my self centered needs, it was all a form of emotional hijacking/bullying. I have made amends for my behavior and apart from the sincere apologies I try to make living amends by showing them I am not the same person I used to be. For me that involved AA but its not that way for everyone. I know that I have traumatized them all in some way and my middle daughter especially has her own addiction problems. I mostly let go of the guilt because it serves no real purpose other than making me feel like garbage, and I am so grateful that I have been forgiven but no one was under any obligation to forgive me. I hurt many people and I am glad that I have been given the opportunity to show I am not like that anymore. Part of me wishes it have never happened but I am such a different person now part of me wonders if I would have gotten to this point without all that strife. I love who I am now. And I am fairly sure they love me for who I have become now. But I wish I could have avoided causing all that pain to get here. I always thought of bullying in a different way until I read this thread and now I realize that I was a bully too. Thank you for sharing this.

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Default May 30, 2019 at 06:14 AM
  #19
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My family bullied me so much I not only ended up clinically depressed and burdened with Complex PTSD, I became learning impaired and have traumatic amnesia. I have written what I remember from my childhood and it didn't even take 3 pages. The rest is locked up in my memory that I may never retrieve.

My family taught me to bully others and when I did, the behavior came out of nowhere. I remember one neighborhood girl I was horrid to. I remember saying to her what my mother and sisters said to me day in and day out. I made that poor child cry and I remember feeling bad about that. I didn't know what to do. I thought her behavior justified my talking to her the way I did.

That is just one snapshot of my background. I am not looking for sympathy. I am simply sharing why I became a bully like my mother and my sisters. I was their victim first, but I became a bully also. I would give anything if I could go back and change it.
HappyCrafter, Thanks for this thread and so many other good ones. Thanks for your example. I accept the "new you" and think that what you went through and realized may make you more enlightened than many, many people.

We all have done good and bad. Maybe sometimes the people who have been "bad" but turn their life around can be shining examples to others who need to change their ways. As long as we are alive, we can change. You are proof of that and I think so highly of you for overcoming so much!!!
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Default May 30, 2019 at 10:35 AM
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeezyks View Post
Thanks for sharing this. In my life, I have been both the victim as well as the perpetrator, the abuser as well as the abused. I don't have much memory of my life prior to the age of 8, only a handful of snippets. Plus, now as I'm aging, I'm gradually losing more-&-more of what I remember after age 8. (There is a sense in which that's not a bad thing.)

I have sometimes wondered if it wouldn't be easier just to be a victim. At least that way you'd know it wasn't your fault. And there'd be someone else you could blame. In my case, the abuse I suffered (which wasn't all that terribly serious in the whole scheme of things... others have suffered significantly worse) has been overwhelmed by what I later on meted out. Like you, I would give anything to be able to go back & change it. But, of course, I can't.

I used to have an on-line friend (my only friend of any sort in the world... until I dumped him a while back.) He was a Christian. (I'm a devout atheist.) He knew something of my history. And he used to tell me that to forgive oneself was possible. I, for my part however, maintained (& still maintain) that some things are sufficiently egregious self-forgiveness is not appropriate. Rather... what I have strived for is simple acceptance. I did what I did. It's in the past. And there's nothing I can do about it now. End of story.
@Skeezyks

That acceptance is powerful, isn't it? I know it has saved my hide countless times. Without it, I would be angry every day of my life.

I thank you for your feedback!! You have given me lots to think about!

__________________


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Be true to you.

You are the only you,
you will ever know the best.


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than anyone else ever can."


Landon Clary Eason
Grateful Sobriety Fangirl Since 11-16-2007

Happy Sober Crafter
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