Toxic Family Dynamics - When to go 'No Contact' and be selfish for a change

Hi all,

I have recently gone, "no contact," with my Mom and Brother. I've simply had enough and know deep down that this is a family dynamic issue. They are refusing to accept any responsibility for their part to play and have managed to build a false belief that I am the source of all the family problems. They are in denial and unwilling to look at themselves and it is too painful being the scapegoat any longer.

I will elaborate in another post, but I wanted to hear from others about their experiences making this painful but absolutely necessary step to recovery.

Please share your experiences and insights about this.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

I am sorry you are going through this, but I applaud your courage to sever ties with them.

I don't think you are being selfish. I think you are taking care of you.

I was raised to believe I was the HUGE problem in the family and their abusing me was always my fault. Society told me mothers and family are the only ones we can trust and rely on. But, my family seemed driven by hatred; it must have been me. It was all my fault because their lives were more together than mine was.

They buried me in lies. They saturated me in lies. They are monsters and I barely got out alive.

There is no healthy reason to keep toxic people in your life, no matter who they are. Remember famous people who are convicted of crimes almost daily. Some are priests, some are doctors, one is even our current president. And what comes out of their mouth? Excuses and blaming the victims or lying that they are being framed. They don't have what it takes to accept responsibility for their own horrid behavior.

Do you see a therapist? Have your mother and brother tried to contact you?

If they refuse to see the harm they're causing you, you should absolutely walk away. I agree with HappyCrafter. You're not being selfish at all. There's nothing wrong with keeping yourself safe and healthy.

I've tried going No Contact and it's been difficult. You're right on both counts. It is very painful, but it is absolutely necessary. Maybe you'll feel differently, but I didn't anticipate how lonely I would feel after I left my ex. The best advice I can give is to find some form of support, either therapy, friends, a support group or anyone else you can talk to.

Thank you for starting this thread! I’ve also been struggling with how to handle healthy hard boundaries with my family.

It hasn’t really reached “no contact” just yet. There is a possibility it could and I’ve felt the guilt of it, just thinking about it.

This found me this morning on my FB feed. I thought of your post and wanted to share it here.

————————————-

Complex trauma survivors can have a lot of difficulty having boundaries with harmful and abusive family.
What I came to understand when I finally cut all contact with my family of origin - after decades of abuse - was that it was not 'me' that ended the relationship.
'They' made the decision to not treat me with love, dignity and respect.
'They' chose to continue to be abusive and harmful.
So, 'they' in fact ended the relationship with their choices.
My choice to only allow myself to be treated appropriately - was a healthy, wise choice.
The blame, guilt and responsibility for the relationship ending - is theirs.
I took the guilt I initially felt and I placed it back firmly back on them.
I no longer feel any guilt or shame.
And that...... is called healing, growth and wisdom.
~ Lilly Hope Lucario

Healing From Complex Trauma and Ptsd/cptsd

@TrailRunner14

Thank you for posting this!! It hits the nail square on the head, doesn't it?

I am inspired by the courage that you all have. To [even consider] breaking free from toxic family dynamics and abuse spirals and handle the inner struggles associated with making such decisions. How you can all come to see the abuse for what it is through years of repeated abuse and hard-earned insight amidst all the projection / gas-lighting, then to distance yourselves from your family, (people who should love and support unconditionally) whilst combating the negative ramifications that most definitely result. What a travesty that we should not only have to harness ramifications from our abusers when we go no contact, but also overcome the internalized shame that our abusers have instilled in us. The so called, "selfish," need to distance and look after ourselves is our last resort after years of trying to desperately to salvage the relationships. Time and time again we have given them opportunities to change, only to be met with utter betrayals and projections. Sometimes we believe the lies. How on earth we can navigate it all and come out on the other side is beyond me; slow accumulation of answers through fellow survivors and complex PTSD literature / therapy, etc. Disturbing to see how well they can flip the situations around and make themselves out to be victims. It is absolutely astounding.

Some subtle covert narcissistic tactics:

The gaslighting.
The projection.
The deflection.
The triangulation.
The toxic shame that ruins our ability to have self confidence and self esteem.
The inability to take responsibility for their behavior.
The classic smear campaigns that result from doing what is best for you.
The hoovering tactics they utilize to reel you back in when you've distanced from them.
The unbelievable tactics that our abusers utilize to keep us in a state of emotional reliance and dependence.

What scares me most is thinking that people in our family are doing this to us. What makes them tick? Scary to think they are so calculated and capable of such evil abuse; and what level of evil they will go to hide their abuses and blame and shame the victim.

No More.

Go No Contact. It is worth it!

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

((((Applause))))

Yes!!

Yes, it's very scary to know there are people out there like that, and it's worse when they're in our families. But you saw through them and got out!

Thanks so much for sharing that list of their tactics. I think knowledge is the best defense we have against them. We can share what we've learned with each other to expose their lies. Maybe it'll make it easier for the next person to escape.

Good for you.

I have contemplated going to no contact but have not had the courage to do so. I grew up being physically and emotionally abused by my sister. She tormented me my whole life and enjoyed bullying and humiliating me, especially when others were around. Since I was the older brother, I was blamed for being a “sissy”, “the girl of the family”, and blamed for it. I grew up thinking there was something wrong with me and feeling inadequate/abnormal. I had such a low self-esteem in high school that younger kids could bully me and I was too scared to fight back,

I have not gone to no contact but have changed cities. I only see my family for Christmas and Easter. I always find the whole thing stressful, as I am still scared of my sister and find my cousins (who loved to see me getting beaten up) hard to be with. But, my family would make me feel bad if I don’t go and I also miss my parents so I haven’t cut them off. I have contemplated to go to no contact but cave in each time.

I think after my parents pass, I will go to no contact.

I struggled with severing ties, don't sever ties, I tried to be assertive around them but they exhausted me. It took me ages to realize there was no reasoning with them. They are monsters. How they can look so human and have their lives together is beyond me, but they are monsters.

It hurt me to face my reality where I would never have a blood-related family I could thrive in, enjoy, look forward to seeing. But, once I accepted that and got through it, it made me much stronger.

It does take a lot of courage to walk away from toxic people, especially family members. At first you are angry or hurt so it might feel like the easier choice to make but it’s a bumpy road over time. There’s always the pros and cons with any choice you make in life. You are pretty much going against societal norms when you walk away from your family. I think minimal contact might be an option to consider. If that’s at all possible. Sometimes it’s not. Whatever you choose, just know that you are never a bad person for choosing to make a healthier life for yourself. Staying away from or limiting contact with people who hurt you is a very healthy choice for yourself. While it’s not an easy thing to do, the benefit is less stress and more time to spend enjoying life on your own terms.

Found this today. It is EXACTLY what I am going through and why I have gone NO CONTACT with my mother and brother.

Found here: Toxic Families Who Scapegoat - Abuse

Found this too!! Anyone relate to it!?

How Narcissistic Parents Scapegoat Their Children | Psychology Today Canada

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

I can 100% even down to this: "But, as I’ve learned from my readers, with support and help, these neglected and set upon daughters will ultimately bloom, firmly rooted in a life of their own making."

My writing logo is a beautiful orange Cosmo I grew myself.



Astonishing, isn't it? They raised me exactly how she described scapegoating and I severed ties with my family years ago.

You recently severed ties with your family, right? Can you see in the articles that there is nothing you can say to them where they will see how horrid their behavior is?

I remember one time I confronted my mother with my two sisters present. I think I was in the 5th or 6th grade. She conceded that yes, she was mean, but she knew she should have never had children or married my father.

I threw her off balance, briefly. I vaguely remember her being more vicious afterwards to regain her balance. I have amnesia from my childhood because the abuse was so traumatic. I barely remember any of it.

But, YOU get to set your life up how you want it to be and YOU get to BLOOM!

I fully support anyone going NC because of circumstances that put the person's life in danger (I know, those circumstances can be difficult to discern).

My concern about the NC trend is, what will happen a few years down the line...or many years away...what about family gatherings (everything from holiday get-togethers to funerals)? I wonder if limited contact is, in the long run, a less potentially painful way to deal with difficult family members?

H, !

There's another technique you could include in your list that I got VERY familiar with: Stonewalling.

I was going to post that I had severed ties with my sibling, but then I realized that she severed ties with me instead, when I finally lost it and called her on her drinking and her lack of consideration for others. I don't miss her B--IT at all nor do I miss her at all, though I dream about her fairly frequently.

I absolutely support you in your efforts to keep toxic people out of your life. It's too short, and too hard, to do otherwise in my opinion.

One thing I found out though -- despite all of our efforts to sever ties, there are certain legalities that may pop up which will bring the people back into your orbit periodically. For example when my remaining parent died there were a couple of bequests that had to be carried out, resulting in further unpleasantness.

All the best to you and many hugs. Thanks for ALL of your wonderful efforts on this forum.

Some really good insights shared on here. This is a tough subject!

I love when those you love try to groom you back into abusive relationships by saying, "Life is too short." From the outside, it looks like we (who have distanced ourselves from abusive and toxic relationships) are making ill-informed decisions when we go no contact. As if, we are giving up on our family members without just cause. And this is the problem with most covert narcissistic abuse; it is invisible to those around us, and this complicates every interaction with extended family as they try to force us into communication with our abusers (without knowledge of family dynamics) and no amount of trying to get them to see things objectively will work. This adds strain on all relationships.

Thing is, I have tried soooo many times to get those who are abusive to understand that what they are doing is not okay. It is similar to setting boundaries: if someone doesn't listen nor care to understand their boundary crossings, then we have to go no contact. Why would this same principle not apply to toxic family members? That is self-care and is absolutely paramount to leading a healthy life.

I understand that some people have reservations about going no contact, but when you think about it, would anyone put up with perpetual emotional abuse forever? If we do, does that make us unhealthy? Arguably yes, and this is why we are scarred so badly and fit the bill for Complex PTSD if we continue to subject ourselves to these kinds of relationships. Thinking they will change is not an option, rarely if ever does that happen. If we have given them ample time to understand their behavior is wrong and they continue to do it, then it is pathological and part of who they are. Going back time and time again is an indication that we, ourselves, are not healthy.

Does anyone disagree? I know some do, I would love to hear others perspectives.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

Quote:

Originally Posted by HD7970GHZ Some really good insights shared on here. This is a tough subject! I love when those you love try to groom you back into abusive relationships by saying, "Life is too short." From the outside, it looks like we (who have distanced ourselves from abusive and toxic relationships) are making ill-informed decisions when we go no contact. As if, we are giving up on our family members without just cause. And this is the problem with most covert narcissistic abuse; it is invisible to those around us, and this complicates every interaction with extended family as they try to force us into communication with our abusers (without knowledge of family dynamics) and no amount of trying to get them to see things objectively will work. This adds strain on all relationships. Thing is, I have tried soooo many times to get those who are abusive to understand that what they are doing is not okay. It is similar to setting boundaries: if someone doesn't listen nor care to understand their boundary crossings, then we have to go no contact. Why would this same principle not apply to toxic family members? That is self-care and is absolutely paramount to leading a healthy life. I understand that some people have reservations about going no contact, but when you think about it, would anyone put up with perpetual emotional abuse forever? If we do, does that make us unhealthy? Arguably yes, and this is why we are scarred so badly and fit the bill for Complex PTSD if we continue to subject ourselves to these kinds of relationships. Thinking they will change is not an option, rarely if ever does that happen. If we have given them ample time to understand their behavior is wrong and they continue to do it, then it is pathological and part of who they are. Going back time and time again is an indication that we, ourselves, are not healthy. Does anyone disagree? I know some do, I would love to hear others perspectives. Thanks,

The only reason I might disagree is when someone misinterprets their parent's behavior in the sense that the person re-writes history.

For example, my daughter and I were very close. Mother and daughter then, when she grew up, we were truly best friends. Last year she was under stress from some intense work in university. I suggested that she see a therapist to have a safe place to vent and to learn some stress reduction techniques.

She agreed to see a therapist. Next thing I know my daughter went NC (9 months ago). She told her dad (my husband) that she "needs a break from mom." Apparently, my daughter has decided, along with her therapist, that I caused my her to be too dependent on me.

I am heartbroken. And so, so confused. My daughter was a high-needs infant and an anxious child. My husband and I absolutely cherished her and loved and supported her in every way possible. She truly required a high degree of protection so she felt safe and secure (for example, she had severe school phobia). I loved her so much that apparently I didn't set the best boundaries for her. As an adult, she became quite self-centered. Still, I was always there for her, ready to meet any need she required from me. To me, it was all about how much I loved her, which was (is) a lot.

Her therapist has told her that my behavior is "toxic." That is a twisted interpretation. I have a suspicion that my daughter is not being entirely truthful with her t. about being a high needs child, and that I gave my heart and soul to make sure that she felt supported by me. She's not a "giving" kind of person, so I don't think she really understands that my motive for being so close to her was about love, definitely not about control.

I hope this makes sense.

Maintaining contact with abusive people can interfere with healing from the abuse. There is nothing selfish about creating an environment that is healthy for you.

In whose eyes are you "selfish"? Is it the abusive family members who want you to believe that? That's just a different way of trying to hurt you.

When I left an abusive marriage I went no-contact immediately and communicated exclusively through my lawyer -- literally no direct link of any kind to the ex. It worked very well for me, and I have no regrets.

When my mother was still alive, there were many times I had to go no contact. There were moments where I had enough and for my sanity, had to leave the situation. The really bad memories were when she would remind me of my mistakes as a child as an attempt to embarrass me in front of others. I would have to storm out.

In a weird way, I always ended coming back. I guess I suffered from Stockholm syndrome and just wanted to repeat the abuse, since that was all I knew. Not only that, but I felt "obligated" to visit her, since she was my biological mother. But, there were times that we wouldn't speak to each other for years or so and it was always me that tried to repair the relationship. My mother never apologized for what she did.

Sometimes I wonder why I returned, but deep inside me, I felt that she was my mother and I guess the feeling of obligation trumped the feeling of abuse.