Reactive Abuse

MsLady · Apr 11, 2020 at 03:47 PM

Ah, I see. I think some of it has been a misunderstanding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by divine1966

I am sad to hear that you keep choosing abusive men.

Thank you. This is my second abusive relationship, 20 years apart.

I learned about my mother's NPD when I was already in this relationship and after I stepped away from my family. It was an eye opener. My partner doesn't beat me. He doesn't "bully", either.. so it was harder for me to understand that his tendencies were/are abusive. I'm just starting to realize this now. I used to think some of his erratic behaviours were possibly related to his MS. I knew he was insecure and had codependency issues but it didn't sound like narcissism, like my mother.

Quote:

The reason I thought you are very young: you make many excuses for your partners abusive behaviors and seem to question it (I had no idea you had abusive partners or any partners before) , you said you can’t afford to be on your own and he is the only provider (which could be because you stay at home mom, although it’s unusual in mid 40s because most people can’t really put a career on hold, that’s why I thought you might be right after high school), you are asking a lot of parenting questions and seem to be generally surprised to find out that it’s not good for young children to witness abusive behaviors. Sorry I don’t mean to offend, but to me you sounded like you are very inexperienced

I'm on maternity leave. Where I live it's 18months. I'm returning to work in the fall, part time. Daycares here have waitlists x2 children, one of which who has anxieties. Preschool was quite hard for her, in terms of separation anxiety. We don't feel daycare is suitable for her just yet.. not that there's a spot available anyway.

I don't think I'm making excuses for his behaviours. In fact, I've been point blank with him about it that these behaviours are really concerning. We've been to couples counseling and I've encouraged him to go to individual counseling multiple times (which he has). Again, the abuse isn't in my face. It's subtle and comes up from time to time.. and again, I questioned how much of it was related to his MS. I'm also just finding things out now.

I'm not asking for parenting advice, per say. I'm just explaining some behaviours my 3yr old is exhibiting and suggestinghow I'm managing them with regards to the abuse. Yes, I've agreed to your feedback and sometimes it's just good to hear that validation from someone else. So thank you for being that person. I appreciate your perspective.

Quote:

Usually as women get older they’d not go for abusive men because they’ll see the signs. Younger girls don’t always recognize the signs.

As mentioned, I entered this relationship when I felt completely isolated. Yes, I ignored a few early on red flags. As I saw it, he didn't beat me. He was very affectionate.. took my son under his wing during a big transition in his life which I was grateful for. His parents and sister are lovely. I knew there were things to work on and I wasn't expecting perfection, and I definitely didn't realize a bigger problem was brewing. Sometimes it takes a pattern of behaviours to see a bigger picture. I also had never heard of "Reactive Abuse" until a few days ago.

Quote:

By the way some of your partners abusive patterns could be explained by him being a drug addict even if he isn’t using heavy drugs now, he still uses drugs as he smokes pot a lot. Excessive marijuana use could cause many symptoms. There is pot induced psychosis and many more issues.

Possibly. He only uses medicinal marijuana to help with his MS symptoms.. and only at night when we all go to bed. There's a lot of variables when it comes to his health.

Quote:

In addition him getting high regularly is something you can use in custody dispute. Even in states where pot is legal, routinely getting high around minor children isn’t something judge would look favorably at. You might have a shot at full custody with his drug use and abusive patterns..

I'm not sure where this information is coming from. He's not at all getting high around the kids.

divine1966 · Apr 11, 2020 at 04:41 PM

If you think your partner isn’t that bad and he isn’t a bully and your kids are ok, then I wish you and your children all the best. I am bowing out

MsLady · Apr 11, 2020 at 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by divine1966

If you think your partner isn’t that bad and he isn’t a bully and your kids are ok, then I wish you and your children all the best. I am bowing out

No, that's not quite what I'm saying. I'm saying he's not physically abusing us and screaming his head off. A lot of the concerning behaviours aren't as easy to detect. I'm just figuring it all out now.

Someone posted this on another thread. I can really relate to it:

Narcissistic Victim Syndrome: What The Heck Is That?

As I've said, I'm currently stuck. I'm trying to make the best of our situation to buy time.

MrsA · Apr 11, 2020 at 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by divine1966

By the way some of your partners abusive patterns could be explained by him being a drug addict even if he isn’t using heavy drugs now, he still uses drugs as he smokes pot a lot. Excessive marijuana use could cause many symptoms. There is pot induced psychosis and many more issues.

Oh, no. I just found out that the person I'm having issues with is also using marijuana. I was hoping it would mellow them out, but most articles says it makes people more violent. I also just realized there is about 3 months worth of used sanitary napkins piled around the toilet. I somehow didn't see it because I'm so used to the mess. At least men don't leave stuff like that . . . or do they?

divine1966 · Apr 11, 2020 at 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrsA

Oh, no. I just found out that the person I'm having issues with is also using marijuana. I was hoping it would mellow them out, but most articles says it makes people more violent. I also just realized there is about 3 months worth of used sanitary napkins piled around the toilet. I somehow didn't see it because I'm so used to the mess. At least men don't leave stuff like that . . . or do they?

It makes some people violent and some more mellow but in a long run when people increase their dosage, they start behaving in a more unstable manner

It’s terrible she leaves such a mess. I suspect some men are just as messy. I don’t know, I don’t think extreme messiness is gender specific

I hope you can get away from her one of these days. She sounds awful. Hugs

MsLady · Apr 11, 2020 at 11:58 PM

I found this to be helpful..

Quote:

"In order [for NPD] to protect themselves, they invest a lot of energy building up defenses. One of those defenses to is develop a “False Self”; which is a mask of behaviour that allows them to put on a show of being real in public. However, this pretense leaves the narcissist constantly guarding themselves from being “found out”, making them overly sensitive to narcissistic injury.

Narcissistic injury is any perceived threat (real or imagined) to the narcissist’s self-esteem or self-worth. So in order to maintain their illusion and protect their false self from any fluctuations of a disappointed ego-ideal, the narcissist demands that they receive perfect mirroring, stroking, and responses from their victims; this attention is known as narcissistic supply.

Obsessed by the illusion of a False Self, and an inflated sense of their own superiority, power, and control, the narcissist renders himself susceptible to all sorts of obsessions, compulsions, and addictions; such as, addiction to Narcissistic Supply; to Grandiosity; to Control, to Power; to Attention; etc.

Once a person has become a victim of a narcissist (whether it happened in childhood or later on in life), the victims are already unconsciously primed to enter the narcissist’s “convoluted dance” that opens them up to further abuse.

The consequences for the victim not understanding the intricacy of the dance, is that, no matter how often they try to avoid “unhealthy” partners, they will find themselves habitually returning to the same dance floor.

I am speaking about a form of abuse that is very insidious. What I mean by insidious is that the abuse is covert, cunning and often indirect. This form of abuse is often carried out in a subtly and clandestine manner, because narcissists go to great pains to avoid being observed publicly as being abusive.

It is vital to understand that narcissistic personality disorder is a serious mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, and a deep need for attention and admiration. The narcissist believes that they are superior to others, and have little regard for other people’s feelings, regardless of whom they are (i.e. spouse, children, parents, siblings, friends, colleagues, peers etc.).

These victims are frequently highly strung or nervous, and their levels of fear may be high, while their level of self-esteem is low. Often they present with obsessive compulsive behaviours, phobias, panic attacks, so at times they may actually feel that they are going mad.

Often the victim will be suffering from PostTraumatic-Stress Disorder (PTSD), or Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; Symptoms of PTSD are often grouped into three main categories: Re-living (flashbacks, hallucinations, nightmares etc), Avoiding (people, places, thoughts, loss of interest etc), and Increased Arousal (excessive emotions, problems relating, difficulty in sleeping and concentration, outbursts of anger, anxiousness, panic attacks etc).

Clients who have suffered narcissistic abused are likely to demonstrate feelings of shame, and humiliation, this is partly due to the narcissistic abuser projecting their shame on to them. They also tend to be over responsible, and apt to self-blame, this is because they learned to take responsible for the narcissists behaviour.

Whenever the narcissist is triggered, without any doubt the victim is told it is their fault. They may act inferior or powerless, and feel great guilt when talking about their perpetrator, even to the point of wanting to protect them. They will often act with disgust at themselves, thinking they are not good enough, smart enough, pretty enough etc.

Quite often the first narcissistic injury is experienced in childhood. It may have been a parent, grandparent, sibling, friend of the victim etc. Having been re-victimized they often internalize that there is something wrong with them. It may become apparent that they may not have reached their potential in their personal life, or their professional life, this is partly due to the fact that they always had to stand in the shadow of the aggressor, and not upstage them. They learn to live in the shadows without really knowing why.

The victim will exhibit many of the symptoms of trauma (avoidance behaviour, loss of interest, feeling detached, sense of a limited future, sleeping or eating difficulties, irritability, hypervigilance, easily startled, flashbacks, hopelessness, psychosomatic illnesses, self-harming, thoughts of suicide etc)

The victim always seems to defend their abuser. While the situation would not make sense from a social standpoint, it may make absolute sense from a psychological viewpoint. What you may be witnessing is a psychological condition known as “Stockholm Syndrome“. Stockholm Syndrome involves the victim emotional bonding with their narcissistic captors, this “trauma bonding” is known to be a strategy of survival for victims. Threats to their psychological survival terrify them, leaving them feeling lost and isolated. But then, confusingly, they can also receive small kindnesses from the abuser, which make them feel connected again, connection makes them feel safe once more. It will be important to understand the components of Stockholm Syndrome in order to understand why the victim still wants to support, defend, and even love the perpetrator after all that they have gone through. This is a highly unconscious sophisticated source of defense for survival that needs to be applauded.

The cognitive dissonance shows itself through rationalization: On the one hand: she abhors her unhealthy relationship and all the abuse that goes with it; while on the other hand, she tells herself that he only fights with her because he loves and cares for her. This inner dialogue reduced her anxiety, allowing her to bond with her abuser, to the point that she will even protect him from the outside world if people attempt to rescue her or encourage her to leave. The result of that is a massive draining conflict ensues between the person’s emotional self and their rational reasoning self. Their “cognitive dissonance” is a sign of the disharmony the victim is experiencing as a result of two conflicting ideas going on at the same time; i.e. the victim knows that they should get out of the situation, but they also know that to do so will put them (and possibly their children) in greater risk. When these two strategies are in place (Stockholm Syndrome and Cognitive Dissonance), the victim firmly believes that their relationship is not only acceptable, but also vital for their survival. They become so enmeshed in the relationship with the abuser, that they feel that their world (mental and emotional) would fall apart if the relationship ended. This explains why they fear those people who attempt to rescue them from their abuser, and how this creates the victim to develop cognitive dissonance and become protective of their abuser.

The client seems to be feeling uncertain of themselves, constantly second guessing themselves, even in the smallest matters. There confidence is so low that they have trouble making simple decisions. You need to be aware if this is happening, because you may be getting a glimpse of another severe symptom of narcissistic abuse called gaslighting.

The gaslighter needs to be right all the time, that is how they keep their power and sense of self in tact.

The final stage is depression, and by now they don’t even recognize who they have become, and they feel broken and isolated. They begin to feel that they can’t do anything right any more, they don’t feel that they can trust their own mind, and they withdraw with a skewed reality of what is really taking place.

Many victims seem to progress from crisis to crisis, making them particularly at high risk of re-victimization. This is because the victim will continue to attract narcissists like a moth to a flame because they have been well groomed in their responses, this leaves them looking like obvious willing partners to the convoluted dance with the narcissist. Of course, this is far from the truth, because the victim is totally unconscious of there being any dance going on, they are totally oblivious to the fact that they are a partner in the dance. This ignorance leaves they open to the danger of forming another dangerous liaison and be victimized yet again."

MrsA · Apr 12, 2020 at 03:09 AM

Yes, the part about a narcissist guarding their false image was something I became sensitive to as a teenager because I often felt sorry for my narcissistic parent. I started recognizing when other people were putting up a show and afraid of discovery, and I would try to help them hide their secrets. Twice it was dishonest men pretending to be really rich, which my parent also did.

So I think having parents like that produce a wrong sort of empathy for dishonest and exploitative people which makes us into narcissist magnets. For me, I got caught up in their fear of discovery and ended up trying to help them keep up the illusion. But I learned my lesson from several disasters by the time I was 20 and started to adopt a harsher attitude towards that trait. But somehow, I still attract bad sorts by some factor that I'm not aware of so, I think parenting still influences how some peope keep getting into bad relationships even after becoming aware of the pattern.

Fuzzybear · Apr 13, 2020 at 07:29 PM

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divine1966 Legendary Wise Elder Member Since Dec 2014 Location: US Posts: 22,369 (SuperPoster!) 9 1,277 hugs given	Apr 11, 2020 at 04:41 PM #22 If you think your partner isn’t that bad and he isn’t a bully and your kids are ok, then I wish you and your children all the best. I am bowing out
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Fuzzybear Wisest Elder Ever Member Since Nov 2002 Location: Cave. Posts: 96,326 (SuperPoster!) 21 81.2k hugs given	Apr 13, 2020 at 07:29 PM #28 __________________
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