Looking for opinions, input

Dear all,


again I’m looking at my family past, it surely helps me to put things into perspective which allows me to heal from there.

This time I’m looking at my 2 cousins, the daughters of my father’s sister who are 2 and 4 years older than me.

The story goes that their father suffered from a heart attack in his early forties, but he survived. In the subsequent rehab he met another woman. He quit is banking job and moved in with the other woman. AFAIK father and daughters never talked again, I don’t know who broke it off or if they both did. He died about 35 years later and they hadn't been in touch ever again.

The older cousin never had as much as a date, let alone a relationship, she lives by herself in a small apartment, working some McJob. About 10 years ago she also broke with her mother. She changed the locks of her apartment (to which her mother had the key), got herself an unlisted phone number and has never answered any of her mother’s many letters. She just disappeared. And the word is, that since she hasn’t talked to her sister as well, although I wouldn’t bet on it. Last year my mother got a phone call from a cruise ship that she was missing on board and if she would know anything. In Europe it is mandatory to leave a contact phone number in case something would happen and apparantly she had specified my parents’ number. Which is a bit odd since of course she hasn’t talked to my parents or anybody else of the family. Maybe she is so lonely that this the only number she has. Initially everybody thought she had committed suicide by jumping off the ship. But later it turned out that it was a language problem, she just hadn’t started the booked and paid cruise and had not cancelled her trip or even given any notice. Of course she might have been just sick, but in that case you typically have insurance for that, however you have to give notice immediately, otherwise insurance will not cover. But even without insurance you would still call immediately, the cruise lines are typically rather accomodating and will try to put you on a later cruise without making you pay again, even though they don’t have to do that. But that of course also only works if you call. So, quite likely that this happened because of mental problems. But her mother had involved the police in this case and later the cousin called her mother (suppressed caller id) and yelled at her at the top of her lungs “DON’T YOU EVER TRY TO GET IN TOUCH WITH ME AGAIN, NEVER EVER!” and then hung up immediately.

The younger cousin also never had as much as a date and at some point I had assumed that with this one girlfriend of hers that she was always very close with, that they were secretly a couple. She is an elementary school teacher, but has dropped out due to depressions and went into rehab. Apparantly this clinic was kind of “all purpose” because there (at about 45 years) she met an older man (early sixties) who was recovering from a life threatening hefty heart surgery. About a year later they were married, and it looks like they were ok, even though they don’t live together. They live about 100 miles apart, both have their own property that they don’t want to give up, so they see each other only every so often. As far as I know this man is very religious and just didn’t want to live in a “wild marriage”. He is described as nice, friendly, well educated and integer. However, a man in his sixties with heart disease taking blood thinning medication is most likely to be impotent and I’m sure she knew that early on. And this was the first only man she started a relationship with. She still isn’t back to work, word is that her depression is most likely to be permanent.

So, to me those things just don’t add up. Of course a divorce is always painful for the children. And they were most likely to be angry at father for leaving her mother and them behind. But this happens all the time and to me this outcome would be way too harsh. There must be more to that, a lot more!

So, if you have any ideas, please let me know. Or if anybody has a story like that, I’d be curious to hear about it.

Best regards
g.

This is a really odd scenario. I don't think it's the normal response to a divorce. Do you know what their family was like before the divorce?

My parents divorced when I was 6 and from that and watching other families, the usual response when a divorce goes badly is for the kids to side with one parent or the other. The fact that both daughters locked themselves in isolation suggests that something worse was going on in the family probably before the divorce. Do you think your aunt and uncle are nice people?

I am fascinated by your story, because from the outside, I might resemble one of your cousins. I'm very solitary, but it's partly because I have a lot of work and hobbies to do on my own, partly because my family was horrible so I was used to being alone since preschool age. And like your younger cousin, my isolation attracts men in their 60s who see me as their last chance to find love, but I would never marry any of them. I also have a male cousin who is like this and I suspect it is because he is gay and he lives in a country where it is not accepted.

The fact that both rather than one of your cousins are acting like this really points to parenting or a heredetary condition. Would they ever talk to you if you approached them? You seem to think the one who yelled at her mother was behaving erratically, but I have also yelled at my absentee father with good reason that other people thought was insane behavior. In my case, my father didn't raise me but only became very possessive after I was an adult. He just started demanding that I do what he says when I was 20, inviting himself to stay at my tiny apartment, and complaining that I was not pretty enough to be the daughter he deserved. He also pressured me to have more physical contact than I was willing and insulted me when I told him no. I put up with this for years before blowing up at him and refusing to see him again, but from the point of view of my relatives I was labeled crazy and irrational.

So from my own experince, I think your cousin may have a reason for yelling at her mother that you aren't aware of. It's likely to be a problem that has gone on for a long time. And from the way you describe both your cousins, I have to suspect the parents are hiding something serious that caused the depression and odd behavior. How did you hear about the cruise incident? Did her mother tell the story in a very straighforward way or did she make it seem as of she was victimized by the daughter? I feel really interested in your cousins' story. It's just really odd and a bit alarming. And partly because I'm also a crazy solitary cousin that people talk about when they don't think I'll find out.

Also, you might be mistaking the anger at the mother as a response to the one incident when it is a deeper issue. People don't usually yell at a parent for calling the police when they are worried, they yell when that happens on top of something else the parents had done in the past. Sometimes, when a parent has done something unforgivable, a person can feel upset for years. Then when the parent contacts you, you blow up because you know they did something awful in the past and feel that they have no right to contact you at all. Maybe she did give the phone number because she had no other to give, and felt that the mother overstepped by calling the police. I just feel very sympathetic to the way your cousin yelled at her mother because it reminds me of when I reacted in ways that seemed unreasonable to people who didn't know the whole story.

Do your aunt and uncle ever complain that their daughters are ungrateful? Or say things to defend their parenting skills? In my experience, abusive parents often claim to be victims of their children without acknowledging their impact on their kids' behavior. Or are their parents just puzzled without being spiteful or overly critical? Do your aunt and uncle ever complain about eachother or hint at marital troubles or dissatiafaction? Could they just be clueless?

Maybe you could ask each of your cousins to have lunch with you separately and see how they respond. You might find out a lot if you encourage them to talk without making any suggestions or giving advice. Just tell them you want to catch up with them or chat on the phone and see if they act like normal people. And its best not to mention the parents or express an opinion about them if possible. That might antagonize them if they are very touchy. Sorry this is so long. I would be very interested to hear if you find out any more about your cousins.

Dear MrsA,

thank you so much for your long reply! Sorry for my late answer, this forum doesn't send notifications and initially nobody had replied.

Yes, I agree with you that this type of reaction does not really make sense as a response to a divorce. Over here more than 1 out of 3 marriages go into divorce, no child has ever loved it, but we would live in a world full of isolated people if this was normal.

One thing to add is that the older cousin was diagnosed with a cervical tumor when she was 4 years old and as a consequence had ovaries and uterus removed. She's been on hormones since the age of 12 to compensate. This could account for a couple of things. Then again, it is quite odd that she had a normal realationship with her mother (at least in terms of what was "visible") and then at the age of about 40 (give or take) she broke off with her literally from one day to the other and this very harshly, considering she even made sure her mother couldn't even call her anymore. One option for this might be that she went into therapy and found out something terrible about her mother that she hadn't considered to be wrong before. I heard about the cruise incident because my mother called me being unsure what to do about it. Of course she also called my aunt.

Now, I hope it is ok if I speak as frankly, but appearantly BOTH of them strictly avoided sex for their whole lifes, which is ... well, not very natural, I think. I mean, many people are late bloomers or just aren't all too hot for it, but never ever? The younger cousin is a rather social type of person and to me also the type of person to be in a relationship. She now is, but with a man who is most likely unable to do it. Looks to me a lot like she had always avoided relationships for not having to have sex.

As for aunt and uncle, to me they appeared to be relatively normal people. A bit superficial, a little bit greedy for money and luxury many, drinking wine regularly, but I really couldn't detect anything extraordinarily. Their marriage and family life appeared to be normal and my aunt says it compeletely hit her out of the blue. Appearantly only when my uncle met this other woman (who is described not to be attractive at all and wasn't any bit younger than my aunt) he appearantly realized what he was missing. Happens every day, so what is this about?

To me it looks that they are both acting out (or maybe acting in) some family matter, but what is it? One option could be that they were both abused by their own father and their mother knew about it but didn't do anything to protect them. But I can hardly believe it. I mean, yes, many times all people around could have never imagined it, but still. I'd be very surprised to hear if this has really happened.

But what else could it be? The younger cousin doesn't really have that much reason to be chronically depressed, there must be something she must be hiding or covering. But what else than abuse could it be?

Other than that, my cousins never liked me, they were never interested to talk to me. A rather mutual thing, I never hated them, but I also wasn't really interested. Our common grandmother's funeral was the last time we saw each other and the last time we talked. Concact with my aunt is also very limited, I mostly know from my mother who is in touch with her. One thing to add, I USED to think they both were acting irrationally, but now I'm pretty sure there is a good reason for that. But I don't think they would talk to me today, so...

Please let me know what you think, I would love to hear more!