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Old 01-21-2019, 02:20 AM #1
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Default Fear of baby kickiing and fear of not bringing it to full term

My first cousin is also going through the same thing. When she was a child, she heard some people say "i can not imagine something moving inside of me" (that was one trigger) and the other one was when that comedian Chelsea Handler said "I don't think I would ever be able to carry the baby to full term, I would feel so trapped". She keeps on repeating these 2 thoughts and I don't know how to help her. Last year she was pregnant and miscarried because of the abnormalities (Trisomy) and before she was referred to an abortion, the doctors told her "You can not get an abortion until the committee approves the diagnosis" and she freaked out. She could not imagine that she was trapped with something inside of her without having the control to expel it or keep it or to do what she wanted. May be she is a little controlling but this was really a traumatic experience for her. Please don't judge. Anyhow, she was pregnant 3 times. First time the feeling was good and she felt proud but her husband wanted her to abort, so she did. Later on they decided to have children, and she had two miscarriages. First was early in pregnancy and the second one was at 4m. She was ok with it at 3,5m but then they told her something was wrong with the fetus and for her, even thought she later on cried and felt deep sorrow, she still felt relieved. Now that she is supposed to be doing ivf, she is afraid that "what if she changes her mind in the middle of the pregnancy?" or "how will she react when she feels the kicks of the baby for the first time, will she freak out?". This is a sensitive issue and she tried talking to a therapist but without much success. She can not talk to her husband or anyone else since the society does not understand this kind of fear. I thought that may be this is because she generally a person with low self esteem? Or may be because her own mother was not really a warm person and she never developed a warm relationship with her? I don't know what to tell her. She is at the borderline age where if she does not do it soon, I am afraid she won't be able to do it later-at least not naturally. She has this one IVF shot now or never. OK, may be not never because the IVF she can do later, a month, two from now. In the meantime, I don't know what to tell her what to do and how to calm her down. Ironically, she does want to have a child (her own) and she knows that she will be a great mother once the baby is "out". I know that too because she is a very nice, warm and rational person. Together we visited many websites and we came across a term Tocophobia, but other than defining it, we didn't come across any answers on how to deal with it and what to do. Like i said, she was fine past 14 weeks, may be this was the answer for her, that she would be ok, but now again that she is preparing for the pregnancy, she is freaking out with all of the questions I mentioned at the beginning. She is for some reason not connecting to the idea of being pregnant in a way other women do. She is also generally doubtful of people (had a hard life, turbulent upbringing etc) and I am thinking may be she is doubtful of people, human beings in general? I am not a psychologist so I don't know what to say and how to help her. She asked me recently "what if I decide to terminate the pregnancy at 25 weeks, where can i go, where can i do it?" Together we searched the net, thinking may be if I give her answers and security in light of “you can control what to do with your body (gave her names of the clinics where they perform late abortions) that this would calm her down and actually make her want the baby, and it did somewhat but only until week 22 or so. This is where her “25 week question” comes from . Like I said, her biggest fear is of being pregnant itself. Are there any other women/couples who have gone through this? Any psychologists or other women with similar fears she could may be talk/contact online? How can this anxiety be overcome? Please help.
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Old 01-21-2019, 08:29 AM #2
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Default Re: Fear of baby kickiing and fear of not bringing it to full term

Sorry that she is going through this. Perhaps just start with one therapist and shop around if necessary. Like others mentioned on another thread, perhaps this isn't the right time to start trying to conceive. The end goal with pregnancy is to bring a healthy baby into the world.
The pregnancy is the easy part as far as raising kids goes. What about her thoughts on child rearing? Does she have any parenting skills in mind for raising kids? Maybe beginning therapy now could help heading into the possibility of post parthum depression which I'm personally concerned for her on that side of things if she's having these thoughts at this stage.
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Old 01-21-2019, 12:04 PM #3
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Default Re: Fear of baby kickiing and fear of not bringing it to full term

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Old 01-21-2019, 12:14 PM #4
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Default Re: Fear of baby kickiing and fear of not bringing it to full term

Quote:
Originally Posted by FearfulMother View Post
My first cousin is also going through the same thing. When she was a child, she heard some people say "i can not imagine something moving inside of me" (that was one trigger) and the other one was when that comedian Chelsea Handler said "I don't think I would ever be able to carry the baby to full term, I would feel so trapped". She keeps on repeating these 2 thoughts and I don't know how to help her. Last year she was pregnant and miscarried because of the abnormalities (Trisomy) and before she was referred to an abortion, the doctors told her "You can not get an abortion until the committee approves the diagnosis" and she freaked out. She could not imagine that she was trapped with something inside of her without having the control to expel it or keep it or to do what she wanted. May be she is a little controlling but this was really a traumatic experience for her. Please don't judge. Anyhow, she was pregnant 3 times. First time the feeling was good and she felt proud but her husband wanted her to abort, so she did. Later on they decided to have children, and she had two miscarriages. First was early in pregnancy and the second one was at 4m. She was ok with it at 3,5m but then they told her something was wrong with the fetus and for her, even thought she later on cried and felt deep sorrow, she still felt relieved. Now that she is supposed to be doing ivf, she is afraid that "what if she changes her mind in the middle of the pregnancy?" or "how will she react when she feels the kicks of the baby for the first time, will she freak out?". This is a sensitive issue and she tried talking to a therapist but without much success. She can not talk to her husband or anyone else since the society does not understand this kind of fear. I thought that may be this is because she generally a person with low self esteem? Or may be because her own mother was not really a warm person and she never developed a warm relationship with her? I don't know what to tell her. She is at the borderline age where if she does not do it soon, I am afraid she won't be able to do it later-at least not naturally. She has this one IVF shot now or never. OK, may be not never because the IVF she can do later, a month, two from now. In the meantime, I don't know what to tell her what to do and how to calm her down. Ironically, she does want to have a child (her own) and she knows that she will be a great mother once the baby is "out". I know that too because she is a very nice, warm and rational person. Together we visited many websites and we came across a term Tocophobia, but other than defining it, we didn't come across any answers on how to deal with it and what to do. Like i said, she was fine past 14 weeks, may be this was the answer for her, that she would be ok, but now again that she is preparing for the pregnancy, she is freaking out with all of the questions I mentioned at the beginning. She is for some reason not connecting to the idea of being pregnant in a way other women do. She is also generally doubtful of people (had a hard life, turbulent upbringing etc) and I am thinking may be she is doubtful of people, human beings in general? I am not a psychologist so I don't know what to say and how to help her. She asked me recently "what if I decide to terminate the pregnancy at 25 weeks, where can i go, where can i do it?" Together we searched the net, thinking may be if I give her answers and security in light of “you can control what to do with your body (gave her names of the clinics where they perform late abortions) that this would calm her down and actually make her want the baby, and it did somewhat but only until week 22 or so. This is where her “25 week question” comes from . Like I said, her biggest fear is of being pregnant itself. Are there any other women/couples who have gone through this? Any psychologists or other women with similar fears she could may be talk/contact online? How can this anxiety be overcome? Please help.
We cant make diagnosis of your friend. only she and her doctors can tell her and you how things are going to be for her when she finally feels the baby kick inside her.

what I can tell you is that when it comes to pregnancy its natural to have all kinds of fears. you see all these horror movies and everyone around you has this comment and that advice. its hard to figure out. on top of that pregancy makes a persons body chemicals go completely nuts, one moment theres happiness, the next anger, fears crying.. all kinds of things happen so in the end each person reacts differently to being pregnant and that moment when they finally feel their baby kick.

I can tell you that as a lesbian married to a lesbian and using IVF/ donors its complicated, scary but enjoyable at the same time.

that moment when my wife and I discovered the process "took" and we were pregnant, it was the happiest moment. we celebrated then stayed up all night talking about the fears, possibilities, hoping nothing prevents going full term (I have health issues that could prevent full term if not watched and treated at the same time)

I remember with each of my children what I was doing at that moment when I first felt the first kick. its not painful. kind of just feels like that fluttery feeling any one gets when they are very happy and excited only that feeling didnt come from my being excited. that feeling was caused from feeling movement. another way to think about this is next time you eat something wait about half hour then put your hand on your abdomen. you may feel your body moving as it processes the food you just ate. its like that, nothing abnormal or painful or claustrophobic. its just that moment of wow I felt something exciting and good. at least thats the way it was for me and my wife.

the fears and worries do not go away during the pregnancy. if anything being a mom means your brain has to learn how to balance the caring and worrying about another human being instead of just worry and taking care of their self. all but one of my children are school aged and I still worry about them, whether they will be safe, what will they grow up to be, all those natural mom worries.

in some respects a mom being worried works tot he positive because with out worry a mom would not be so aware of their child, what their child is doing and whether they are healthy or sick all kinds of stuff.

I tend to think the worry factor during pregnancy is just natures way of preparing a mom for refocusing their attention from just their self to include their baby.

that said there are therapy tools that can help a naturally worried and obsessively worried mom get through the hard pregnancy thoughts, fears and worries.

my suggestion is have your friend talk with their doctors. they can help her to decide what she wants to do and how to go about doing it.
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Old 01-21-2019, 05:17 PM #5
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Default Re: Fear of baby kickiing and fear of not bringing it to full term

Quote:
Originally Posted by FearfulMother View Post
My first cousin is also going through the same thing. When she was a child, she heard some people say "i can not imagine something moving inside of me" (that was one trigger) and the other one was when that comedian Chelsea Handler said "I don't think I would ever be able to carry the baby to full term, I would feel so trapped". She keeps on repeating these 2 thoughts and I don't know how to help her. Last year she was pregnant and miscarried because of the abnormalities
I imagine this was hard for her but I am not sure the "trapped" feeling wouldnt happen again.
Quote:
She could not imagine that she was trapped with something inside of her without having the control to expel it or keep it or to do what she wanted.
This is very concerning to me.When you choose to bring a child into the world(even in utero) you no longer are able to do what you want. I mean yes you could have an abortion but anything else means you have to think of something other than yourself. Is she willing to think like that?
Quote:
May be she is a little controlling but this was really a traumatic experience for her. Please don't judge. Anyhow, she was pregnant 3 times. First time the feeling was good and she felt proud but her husband wanted her to abort, so she did.
What made the next pregnancies ok but not this one? What changed the husband's mind?
Quote:
Later on they decided to have children, and she had two miscarriages. First was early in pregnancy and the second one was at 4m. She was ok with it at 3,5m but then they told her something was wrong with the fetus and for her, even thought she later on cried and felt deep sorrow, she still felt relieved.
Why do you think she felt relieved?

Quote:
Now that she is supposed to be doing ivf, she is afraid that "what if she changes her mind in the middle of the pregnancy?" or "how will she react when she feels the kicks of the baby for the first time, will she freak out?". This is a sensitive issue and she tried talking to a therapist but without much success. She can not talk to her husband or anyone else since the society does not understand this kind of fear. I thought that may be this is because she generally a person with low self esteem? Or may be because her own mother was not really a warm person and she never developed a warm relationship with her?
I have to admit that this concerns me. It concerns me because these feelings have come up before. The fact that she wonders what will happen if she changes her mind implies (to me) that she is not ready to be a mother. You really need to be aware and come to terms with that once you are pregnant with the intention of having children- your body is no loner yours. The baby has to become the focus and the most important. Wondering what happens if she changes her mind makes me think she has already changed it. It almost sounds like an aversion to pregnancy. The thing is, babies are not meant to be 'what-if' decisions. You have to have it all decided before you begin IVF. There should not be any doubts left because you are about to pay a lot of money and put your body through some duress in order to have a child. A child that she may want or change her mind on- but that isnt really fair to the child, Imagine if she wondered if she wanted a baby or not but still carries the pregnancy? She has the baby and now the baby will represent the choice she didnt make and maybe she will even resent it.

Quote:
I don't know what to tell her. She is at the borderline age where if she does not do it soon, I am afraid she won't be able to do it later-at least not naturally. She has this one IVF shot now or never. OK, may be not never because the IVF she can do later, a month, two from now. In the meantime, I don't know what to tell her what to do and how to calm her down.
I think being gut-level honest with her would be a good idea. Help her to face things head on while the decisions are easier.

Quote:
Ironically, she does want to have a child (her own) and she knows that she will be a great mother once the baby is "out". I know that too because she is a very nice, warm and rational person.
There are many nice, warm rational people who are not good mothers. What makes her think she will be a great mother? What are the attributes the she has that make you think she will be a great mother?

Quote:
Together we visited many websites and we came across a term Tocophobia, but other than defining it, we didn't come across any answers on how to deal with it and what to do. Like i said, she was fine past 14 weeks, may be this was the answer for her, that she would be ok, but now again that she is preparing for the pregnancy, she is freaking out with all of the questions I mentioned at the beginning. She is for some reason not connecting to the idea of being pregnant in a way other women do.
it honestly doesnt matter what her situation may be called or caused by. The fact that there is this much turmoil involved leads me to think now is not the time for her to get pregnant.

Quote:
She is also generally doubtful of people (had a hard life, turbulent upbringing etc) and I am thinking may be she is doubtful of people, human beings in general? I am not a psychologist so I don't know what to say and how to help her. She asked me recently "what if I decide to terminate the pregnancy at 25 weeks, where can i go, where can i do it?"
To me this is very scary. I am not moralizing this and I am very pro-choice but wondering how late she can have an abortion is just...scary to me. I just do not understand changing your mind that late. To me that means you were never sure to begin with- or that you chose to get pregnant for the wrong reasons or impulsively.

Quote:
Together we searched the net, thinking may be if I give her answers and security in light of “you can control what to do with your body (gave her names of the clinics where they perform late abortions) that this would calm her down and actually make her want the baby, and it did somewhat but only until week 22 or so. This is where her “25 week question” comes from . Like I said, her biggest fear is of being pregnant itself. Are there any other women/couples who have gone through this? Any psychologists or other women with similar fears she could may be talk/contact online? How can this anxiety be overcome? Please help.
Where is her husband in all of this? How does he feel? You said he wanted her to have the first abortion so does he now support her being pregnant? Did he have a change of heart?
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:36 PM #6
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Default Re: Fear of baby kickiing and fear of not bringing it to full term

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Originally Posted by amandalouise View Post

I remember with each of my children what I was doing at that moment when I first felt the first kick. its not painful. kind of just feels like that fluttery feeling any one gets when they are very happy and excited only that feeling didnt come from my being excited. that feeling was caused from feeling movement. another way to think about this is next time you eat something wait about half hour then put your hand on your abdomen. you may feel your body moving as it processes the food you just ate. its like that, nothing abnormal or painful or claustrophobic. its just that moment of wow I felt something exciting and good. at least thats the way it was for me and my wife.

the fears and worries do not go away during the pregnancy. if anything being a mom means your brain has to learn how to balance the caring and worrying about another human being instead of just worry and taking care of their self.


I tend to think the worry factor during pregnancy is just natures way of preparing a mom for refocusing their attention from just their self to include their baby.

that said there are therapy tools that can help a naturally worried and obsessively worried mom get through the hard pregnancy thoughts, fears and worries.

my suggestion is have your friend talk with their doctors. they can help her to decide what she wants to do and how to go about doing it.
I came back in thinking about how to describe kicking. The Flutters is exactly the right word for it.

I still say start seeking out a therapist asap through insurance or other means. Having one on call so to speak will reduce any sense of urgency if this were to develop into post parthum depression.

Sweets raises a point which I'm curious about as well. The husband/future father. Did he have a change of heart to pursue IVF?? Why is termination of pregnancy coming up during such an involved life experience as IVF? I've known couples who have done this...it's a commitment and then some. Hows her relationship with her husband?
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Old 01-22-2019, 12:40 PM #7
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Default Re: Fear of baby kickiing and fear of not bringing it to full term

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I came back in thinking about how to describe kicking. The Flutters is exactly the right word for it.

I still say start seeking out a therapist asap through insurance or other means. Having one on call so to speak will reduce any sense of urgency if this were to develop into post parthum depression.

Sweets raises a point which I'm curious about as well. The husband/future father. Did he have a change of heart to pursue IVF?? Why is termination of pregnancy coming up during such an involved life experience as IVF? I've known couples who have done this...it's a commitment and then some. Hows her relationship with her husband?
yes it is a commitment both financially ......

in the thousands to regulate/ synchronize both the male and female reproductive systems so that the eggs are ready to be harvested when the male counter part is ready for fertilization, then theres the thousands for the extraction surgery, then theres the mega bucks hundreds to thousand for the fertilization, then theres the process of making sure the womb is ready for implantation, usually with the use of meds due to viability of a fertilized and ready egg, thousands for the implantation of 2-5 fertilized eggs, my wife and I go with no more than three at a time. then if not pregnant that cycle you do it all over again, and again and again .. very rarely does it "take" the first time. not to mention a series of shots every cycle. my point here is its very very expensive for anyone planning to do the IVF plan to have about 25000 in savings account for the whole process.

the abortion factor comes in play each time because sometimes a fetus is deformed or ends up being a tubal pregnancy or because too many fertilized eggs in the womb. many people are not financially able to raise more than one child at a time but the process requires at least 2 in case one doesnt "stick", a fetus cant grow to term in a Fallopian tube that does not stretch. and sometimes fetus's due in the womb when this happens the mother has to make a choice of carrying that deceased fetus to term or terminate. imagine carrying this child that is not alive in your body for 9 months, have a c section and then when most parents would be showing off their cute cuddly baby you are planning a funeral.. my point there are many reasons why abortion is discussed as part of the IVF process.
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Old 01-23-2019, 04:23 AM #8
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Default Re: Fear of baby kickiing and fear of not bringing it to full term

Quote:
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yes it is a commitment both financially ......

in the thousands to regulate/ synchronize both the male and female reproductive systems so that the eggs are ready to be harvested when the male counter part is ready for fertilization, then theres the thousands for the extraction surgery, then theres the mega bucks hundreds to thousand for the fertilization, then theres the process of making sure the womb is ready for implantation, usually with the use of meds due to viability of a fertilized and ready egg, thousands for the implantation of 2-5 fertilized eggs, my wife and I go with no more than three at a time. then if not pregnant that cycle you do it all over again, and again and again .. very rarely does it "take" the first time. not to mention a series of shots every cycle. my point here is its very very expensive for anyone planning to do the IVF plan to have about 25000 in savings account for the whole process.

the abortion factor comes in play each time because sometimes a fetus is deformed or ends up being a tubal pregnancy or because too many fertilized eggs in the womb. many people are not financially able to raise more than one child at a time but the process requires at least 2 in case one doesnt "stick", a fetus cant grow to term in a Fallopian tube that does not stretch. and sometimes fetus's due in the womb when this happens the mother has to make a choice of carrying that deceased fetus to term or terminate. imagine carrying this child that is not alive in your body for 9 months, have a c section and then when most parents would be showing off their cute cuddly baby you are planning a funeral.. my point there are many reasons why abortion is discussed as part of the IVF process.
Points taken, I can certainly appreciate that side of it. And thanks for sharing the process. I was more taken aback by the ops point about changing ones mind altogether at 25 weeks.
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