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Default Nov 02, 2019 at 10:14 PM
  #1
1st off I think this thread/question could be posted in any number of different forums. I'll start here and see how it goes.

I suffer from many different major long term mental health issues. The biggest of which is depression & suicidal ideation & desires. It appears that the only people/places that are willing to touch me with a 10 foot pole is in patient facilities. There are a number of reasons I don't want to go. One of which is if I go I will have to take short term disability which is reported to my employer. I drive for a living. I don't have a CDL but I do have to pass a DOT (Department Of Transportation) phyisical. As dumb as it is if you seek help for depression your DOT certification is revoked for 6 months. If you suffer from suicidal thoughts you lose it for a year. No my company won't fire me but they will tell me they have no work for me and stick me in the warehouse getting 17 hours a week, on average. So at that point I might as well be fired.

How can I get around this? The doctors treating me must put down what they are treating me for in order to get the short term disability approved. I have seen the language used in the paperwork and it clearly states "Pain without cause is not a reason for disability." What do I do? I've been with this company 20 years and have worked hard to get to where I am.
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Default Nov 03, 2019 at 04:22 AM
  #2
I am so sorry you're struggling with this @Twitch99

(((safe hugs)))

I think you raise an important concern here, given that our records are never really confidential when it comes to certain jobs or careers, such as your driving career, those in the military, those in law enforcement, etc. Depression and other conditions such as PTSD can happen to many people at different stages of their lives. Many people choose to go on disability (I'm one of them), whereas others avoid mental health treatment for reasons beyond stigma and culture, such as potential career losses. It's hard to say what alternatives you have when the "gold standard" is to seek mental health treatment from a professional.

Concerning sui ideation, I can imagine how that factor alone could be challenging when such is not treated as confidential at all. Depression in general is treated semi-confidentially, with the exception of having your records tied to your job/career. In essence, for some people in certain careers, our medical and mental health records are not entirely confidential.

Perhaps there are public safety and public health concerns that influence policies and practices in different institutions. Nevertheless, for someone like you who has worked for most of his life in a particular career, it's a weighty loss - a complex loss comprising financial loss, reputational loss, job loss, career loss, identity loss, etc. Such losses are often overlooked in determining a person's fitness to continue their duties, especially when loss equates to increased depression and increased anxiety. There should be transition programs to deal with such losses, so as to buffer the effects of loss. There should also be exceptions made to those who want to keep their jobs in some capacity, even if a lateral move is required.

Being reduced to 17 hours per week is not a lateral move, so I think it is unfair and almost discriminatory to negate the skills and hard work you've put in just because of a particular diagnosis; their alternatives should be lateral, meaning same pay and hours but different job that allows for disabled persons to work.

One alternative is to seek help from the ADA:

What is the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA)? | ADA National Network

ADA.gov homepage

Access Denied

The ADA may be able to help you find free or affordable representation and/or tips for keeping your job.

In addition to the ADA, if you are part of a Union, you can also seek assitance through a Union Representative. Perhaps the ADA and a Union Rep might work together for your needs.

You don't want to lie, since you'd be given different treatments that may not work. But I can see how disclosing the information that you've shared here can cause havoc on your job.

Also, in terms of treatment with a therapist, you can try to seek some type of therapist (maybe an online therapist might be safest for now) who understands treatment-resistant depression, *chronic* sui ideation, and your history (which you've stated in a different post). If there are different ways you can communicate your needs without the therapist suggesting inpatient treatment, then that would be the best best. Most people with *chronic* sui ideation will go inpatient, but there are different types of inpatient services for different sources of sui ideation, such as trauma facilities (as opposed to the 3- to 5-day hold facilities that only offer medications, stabilization, and brief occupational therapy - no real coping skills at all, save referrals to potential therapists in your community). Trauma facilities do offer coping skills, but there may be other facilities for treatment-resistant depression that offer different types of coping skills. There's also that "stimilation" or "brain rebooting" thing, which I forgot the name of (ECT or TMS, I think), which has helped some people with chronic sui/depression. Medications would also help, but only psychiatrists can prescribe such meds. There's a difference between a psychiatrist and a psychotherapist, btw. A psychiatrist holds an MD, whereas a psychotherapist does not (the psychotherapist can be a PsyD, LCSW, MFT, LPC, PhD, or other licensed counselor). A psychiatrist isn't there for talk therapy, at least not most. A psychiatrist will take a very stoic approach to assessing your symptoms and diagnosing you. A therapist, on the other hand, is there for talk therapy only. There are many different types of therapists with different types of modalities. Finding the right one is tricky, but doable.

Dr. Grohol has written articles about finding a therapist, which can be found here:

Find a Therapist & Psychological Help | Psych Central

And here's another article on online therapy, or "Telehealth": Telehealth: Wait, There's Online Therapy?

Dr. Grohol has also written an article on TRD (treatment-resistant depression), which can be found here:

https://psychcentral.com/lib/about-t...epression-trd/

Dr. Grohol has also written articles about patient rights, which can be found here:

https://psychcentral.com/blog/your-p...ts-in-therapy/

https://psychcentral.com/lib/your-psychotherapy-rights/

Also, Dr. Grohol (DocJohn) offers biweekly chat sessions for one hour, which can be found here: https://psychcentralforums.com/calen...do=getinfo&e=2

You can set up an event reminder, but remember to make sure your PC settings are set for the correct time in your area. Then, when chat is in session (in the "Auditorium" Forum, there are three, so make sure you choose that forum when chatting), you can ask DocJohn (aka Dr. John M. Grohol, Psy.D.) questions about your situation. There are guidelines for what questions you can ask, so please make sure you read the guidelines ahead of time.

I hope these tips help.

Others on PC might have different advice, better advice, or similar advice, too.

Take care and be safe!

(((safe hugs)))

It's nice to see you posting on PC again, btw.
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Default Nov 05, 2019 at 08:13 AM
  #3
Do you have a/some long-term disability policy(ies)? Are you talking about state DOT or federal DOT?

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Default Nov 05, 2019 at 09:59 AM
  #4
I am talking about federal DOT regulations. If I go out on disability then it must be reported to the disability company why. Once I come back I have to take my DOT phyisical again and at this point the disability company will have told the doctor why I need another exam. Then per federal regulations the doctor can't pass me. My employer shouldn't find out why I didn't pass but they will find out that I didn't pass. At that point I can no longer drive.
Yes I know that's a complicated answer but it is a complicated process.
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Default Nov 05, 2019 at 10:22 AM
  #5
I looked it up here: Is depression an automatic refusal for a DOT card? | TruckersReport.com Trucking Forum | #1 CDL Truck Driver Message Board

Wow, that's really tough for anyone to risk losing their job because of a mental disorder. I suppose that there's nothing the ADA could really do to help in this regard.

Is there any way to find a different job that pays the same? If you apply for SSDI, it could take a year or longer, and sometimes requires an appeal before you get approved. Also, you don't get much money from that. If you apply for temporary disability, you run the risk of losing your job. The question would then be whether or not the job you have now is worth keeping, given your need to find treatment and help. Sadly, that's an option, too.

I'm so sorry you are struggling with all this.

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Default Nov 05, 2019 at 10:44 AM
  #6
No I have looked around at different companies and can't find anything that pays the same. My biggest problem is I'm a low skilled worker, so I'm lucky to have a job that pays as well as I do.
Side note: Thanks to our previous President people who have mental disorders can not adopt.
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Default Nov 05, 2019 at 11:36 AM
  #7
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Originally Posted by Twitch99 View Post
No I have looked around at different companies and can't find anything that pays the same. My biggest problem is I'm a low skilled worker, so I'm lucky to have a job that pays as well as I do.
Side note: Thanks to our previous President people who have mental disorders can not adopt.
@Twitch99

Here's another helpful article: Does the DOT medical exam violate the ADA? How to Comply With Both

The thing is, can your company offer you a comparable job (same wage, different job not requiring DOT, lateral move)?

Also, DOT's notion of "severe psychiatric disorders" leaves room for misinterpretation.

What does your wife say about all this? Would you be able to learn a different trade that allows disabled persons to work? Other trades that you could learn at a community college include welding, auto mechanic, automotive service tech, carpentry, masonry, etc. Here's a link: Top 20 Highest Paying Trade School Jobs

I am 45 y/o, and there are many people our age who return to college with mental illnesses. You'd be surprised at what you can learn and do, and who knows, you might be good at other jobs such as engineering, humanities, theology, math, biology, chemistry, law even, criminal justice, etc. You never know until you try. (PS: You'll run into the same issues as DOT with health-related fields, so if you do choose another field, choose one that is more ADA-compliant and mental-illness-friendly. Psychology, as a field, is a toss up, depending on what you plan to study and who your supervisors are; some supervisors act like "gatekeepers" who weed people out if they have unresolved mental illnesses. If it's clinical psychology or anything regarding licensing for practitioner work, you might find it really challenging and difficult. But then there's neuroscience, cognitive science, and I think some sort of airplane psychology that you could consider as a field as well, even though it takes a long time. --That is, if you have a passion for correcting parts of the system that aren't understanding of people like you; you could take your experiences and turn it into a passionate new career.)

I'm barely applying to grad programs now at 45. I've seen people as old as 60 in undergraduate and graduate schools. You can do it!

Community college is where I started out before I transferred to a four-year university. It's never too late for you to find a different field to work in. Given your long-term experience with your company, you have demonstrated your stability and ability to maintain a job, even though you struggle with mental illness. Besides, colleges have "Disability Access Centers" for those who have documented mental illnesses. They also have support groups. Further, I was the president of an honor society at a two-year community college, which offered transfer students scholarships up to $40k ($10k/year) if their GPA of 3.5 was maintained by graduation of a 2-year college. It's possible that you can accomplish so many more things in a community college, but you have to have support systems in place, such as a therapist, a psychiatrist, and a support group - all of which will help you to redirect your life, deal with both SI (sui ideation) and depression, among other things, and find a new passion.

If you like cars and truck driving, then maybe you might check out mechanical or electronic engineering. I worked as an administrative assistant for electronic engineers who designed car parts. They were the funnest, most laid back people ever! I didn't understand all of what they did, but I knew enough to transform Autocad specs into Word Documents. If you'd like to learn more about becoming an administrative assistant (there are men who do this for Fortune 500 companies, etc.), you can learn all those skills in a 2-year community college and then apply for maybe the corporate offices of the company you currently work for. You need not limit yourself to skilled work when you can learn a new "desk" job. Administrative assistants can make a lot of money - maybe starting at around $45k and working toward a medium pay of $75k, depending on the organization. I don't know how much you make, but even a slight lowered pay might be worth all the heartache you are dealing with by keeping your current job.

You can learn typing skills, computer skills, and many other basic skills at a two-year community college.

What do you think about that? Can you write down alternative goals and dreams that you might have to help you redirect your path? I know this is hard, given your mental illness, but it's doable.

Please don't lose hope. You have a wife and family who may be able to help you through this, and may find that your new direction is encouraging for your family. Discuss this over with your wife and see what she says.
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Default Nov 10, 2019 at 02:03 PM
  #8
1st off @Lilly2 that first link you posted ADA & hiring practices does not apply to me. I have already been hired. If i go out on disability the reason must be stated. If it is for depression or suicide then federal law states I can not pass a DOT phyisical anymore. At 1 point I found an actual federal website that talked about it.

2nd part if I can no longer drive can my company offer me a comparable position? Yes they certainly can. "Look here we have a similar paying job in South Carolina. Oh here's on in California. We even have a few in Texas. So you have plenty of options." The problem is I would have to move and I would leave behind my family. My company is really good at C.Y.A.

No I can't learn a new trade/job. I'm too dumb for that. I'm lucky I have a good paying job for a low skilled worker.
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Default Nov 10, 2019 at 02:11 PM
  #9
(((safe hugs))) @Twitch99

I'm so sorry that you're caught in a bind. Having you relocate doesn't seem fair or comparable at all; that costs you more hardship and relocation expenses as it is; how could that even be allowed, especially if someone is disabled?

That said, your health really should be more important than your job. Can you and your wife make alternative plans? Is your wife helping you at all?

I'm so sorry you are going through all this!
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Default Nov 10, 2019 at 11:21 PM
  #10
@Lilly2 my wife is trying to help but is only making things worse. She is constantly pushing for me to check myself in to a mental facility. She knows this will most likely cost my job, which will only make things worse, & I have said on multiple occasions that I would rather die than go back.
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Default Nov 11, 2019 at 10:25 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by Twitch99 View Post
@Lilly2 my wife is trying to help but is only making things worse. She is constantly pushing for me to check myself in to a mental facility. She knows this will most likely cost my job, which will only make things worse, & I have said on multiple occasions that I would rather die than go back.
@Twitch99 I'm so sorry that you face a conundrum of having to choose between mental health and your job. Many people do not understand that, and the stigma as well as discrimination gets raised. There may be public safety reasons for driving with certain mental illnesses and/or conditions, as I think I have to get a doctor's note just to transfer my DRLC from another state to the new state for which I now reside. It's a pain. The worst they can tell me is, "No," which would mean an extensive amount of life adjustments, but public safety and public health overpowers our goals in life, sometimes. That said, there are alternatives for your situation.

You may live in a rural area where mental health is limited, and where you fear running into the same traumatic issues that you experienced in the past, but there may also be the possibility of better experiences while inpatient. If your wife is adamant about you going inpatient, then it is likely she has already contemplated the costs of you potentially losing your job. And if she wants to work on your marriage together, she's doing what she can to offer you freedom to do that - seek help and being okay with you losing your career. That sounds like a loving wife, to me.

Sometimes our mental illness, including trauma, gets in the way of us seeing the true intentions of others. Your wife may seem pushy, but she is also very understanding and kind with regards to her willing to stay in the marriage - through thick or thin - and with her willing to lose some monetary benefit while increasing stress on her part to work and become the bread-winner while you seek help. That sounds like an awesome spouse, to me.

It's a matter of you making a choice and taking the next step. There's help out there, but given the extremity of your symptoms, it would appear that the best help you can receive at this day and age is inpatient. The rules of mandatory reporting probably wouldn't allow for outpatient treatment for very long before the T recommends inpatient, and the reason for that is public safety, public health, your safety, and your health - not a punishment on you, but rather the only safe means for which you could receive help for suicidal ideation with attempt fantasies, even though you've had these thoughts for 30 years or so. Remaining stagnant in your situation just brings further distress to you, as it seems you go around and around in circles with the same contemplations and thoughts, which affect and can worsen your mood.

A lot of people care, but there's a point in time when you have to make the choice to care for yourself and care for others who care about you. It's hard where you are at, but the longer you sit in this cycle of contemplation, the worse your feelings will get and the harder it will be to make a decision.

If you and your wife can afford your travel to a trauma treatment facility (there are a few in the US), then those facilities would be far more helpful than a 3-day or 5-day involuntary hold because trauma treatment centers do have daily or multi-weekly therapy sessions as well as many groups, whereas psychiatric hold tanks only look at medications and stabilization. Trauma treatment facilities provide medication, stabilization, AND trauma workshops as well as (in some cases) daily therapy sessions. They would treat you more kind and less like a "number" at such facilities, but you need the signoff from a LOCAL therapist who is willing to send you there than anywhere else. Trauma treatment facilities also have social workers who can help you with your job/career/driving situation, and they can offer some alternatives - more so than psychiatric holding tanks.

There's only so much we can offer and your wife can offer in terms of support and advice, but a decision by you and only you to seek one of those advices will move you forward in the right direction. Your life IS WORTH IT! You may not feel it or know it, but it is. It's hard for you to see right now, but please PLEASE try.

River Oaks is one hospital. There are others as well. You can write down a list of all your symptoms, life history, current concerns, past traumas, trauma treatment centers, and tips we've all offered you on PC and then take that list/those lists to your new T, and ask your new T to be helpful with finding a trauma treatment facility, which often takes insurance. It sounds like you don't have Medicare, so the 190-day lifetime restriction on inpatient facilities may not apply to you, but it depends on your insurance. It sounds like you still have a lot of options here, and worrying about your job/career isn't help you at the moment. Your wife has already indicated her support, so that can relieve you of having to worry about your job/career or even your relationship with your wife. Seeking treatment can help not only you but also your relationship with your wife, too.

Please consider these options. (((safe hugs)))
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