Really frustrated with my company's leadership and morals

Okay, I totally agree that this place is hostile, but be prepared for them to fire you or lay you off for something unrelated, as did happen for me. And the likelihood that you can prove it was due to your complaint and not another reason is very low. The company is losing business, so they could just lay you off and say it's due to budgetary reasons, then you'd have no case. Or they could find some reason to blame it on your work. I know your work is very high quality, but they can find ways to blame you for things that weren't your fault, and they will.

Filing that complaint when you are looking to leave anyway is putting a target on your back. Please, please, please take it from me. I have been there and I can attest to it.

I know you are very upset by what happened, and rightfully so, but is it possible to address this without a formal complaint first?

@seesaw thank you. What happened to you?

Also it’s against the law in my state for a company to retaliate after a hostile work environment complaint is made

It wont look like retaliation is what I'm trying to tell you. They can fire you after your complaint and call it a layoff and get away with it.

I have a disclosed disability. It was disclosed when I took the job because I have a service dog. In a meeting in which the CEO knew I was recording, he made a discriminatory statement to me. I filed a complaint with the EEOC. Shortly after I was "laid off" even though my work had always been exemplary. The EEOC basically said they couldn't prove or disprove there was discrimination. EVEN WITH A RECORDING!

I did file a lawsuit, and we settled out of court but it was ugly and difficult. He did eventually get what was coming to him from his own stupidity, but "standing up for myself" would have done better for me by just finding a job and leaving.

Understand that I'm telling you what I'm telling you because I've been through this same thing and it was very painful and killed my self-confidence. You can just quietly document and then when you leave, raise a complaint with the EEOC. I mean, what do you think HR is really going to do about it? HR is there to protect him, not you. So they will say they will talk to him, but then he knows you complained and it gets worse, or even worse, they force you two to sit down and reconcile, yuck.

I'd say keep documenting every little aspect and send it all to the EEOC the day you give your two weeks' notice.

If you truly feel that the only way is to file this with HR, then do what you have to do. Just be aware they can find ways to retaliate that won't look like retaliation.

It’s your decision to file a complaint, I don’t blame you, but companies can find the dumbest reason to let someone go , they wait a few month then you are written up if you show up 2 mins late, or take a longer lunch, all the reasons Seesaw said. I live in a “ right to work state “ anyone can be fired , no reason is even needed.

Employers hold the power.

If you do lose your job are you prepared financially to hold yourself over until you find new work ? Yes you can sue but that can months and months to even a year before your case is in the stack the judge will start working on.

I worked for some mean Doctors over the years, many said very inappropriate things but I was a single Mom with bills, 2 weeks without a paycheck would have destroyed my ability to keep the power on and food in the house.

Double check to make sure financially you can swing it if they do something stupid.

Good luck

Thank you @seesaw and @christina! You’ve given me a lot to think about.

I cannot afford to lose my job.

@seesaw. I cannot believe that happened to you. How horrific. I’m so sorry.

The whole situation at work makes me enraged. I feel powerless, and in the meantime I’m getting beaten up and stepped on.

Maybe instead I’ll try to talk to my manager about what happened Friday, ask him if I’ve offended or upset him somehow and see if I can work it out that way.

If this coworker is not your boss and is on the same level as you, you don't have to do what he says. You had your own ideas about how to handle this particular account and you chose to handle it accordingly. It sounds to me like this other individual tends to react as though it's a personal attack on his abilities and he feels disrespected. When he feels this way he acts poorly and it's probably not just at you but instead is how he behaves in general when he doesn't get to have things HIS way.

Some people struggle with low self esteem and have poor ways of handling situations that affect their self esteem. When we deal with anyone, we tend to deal with an individual that has a history and tends to react based on their history which can include many incidents where that person's self esteem was attacked or disrepected.

What if YOU had instructed this guy to do something you decided was best for this account and you found out instead of this guy doing what you suggested he chose to do it HIS way and responded to your anger about that with a kind of "oh well" it's done MY way? You would get angry and feel disrespected and possibly even get a twinge of a powerless feeling when someone in your past disrespected you and your self esteem suffered. I don't know if someone's reaction always boils down to jealousy. Truth is, there are times when two individuals butt heads because BOTH have challenges when it comes to their self esteem.

It's not that others, including myself are afraid to stand up for themselves. You can have others able to relate to the challenges you are facing. What often is being considered is instead the possible consequences. Others are right in that the HR's job is to protect the company, that includes identifying an employee that can decide to take action that can have a negative affect on the company itself, EVEN if that employee has been treated badly. That is often handled by removing this employee that has shown they are willing to "rock the boat" if need be. This is especially true if more than one employee expresses a dislike about this one employee , even if that employee actually has merit in their complaint. Actually Hope, this is exactly why narcissists maintain their so called "flying monkeys".

In this particular company you are working for Hope, the CEO and others directly under him don't know enough to be able to recognize the value of what YOU do and your experience. That puts you at a disadvantage right from the get go. The problem with a ship being run like this is often the leader who doesn't really know picks individuals that also may not really know either. It may not even be something anyone can change even if that person comes up with a detailed proposal showing the changes that need to be made. Often, even if a person can convince the Company head, it will require changing how others are working their jobs and there can end up being quite a resistance that can become a mutiny. This is exactly WHY so many end up starting up their own businesses or hang on until they can find a job elsewhere where thier contribution can be appreciated.

You are working in a company that has a high turnover Hope, that is a redflag that is important to pay attention to. It means that individuals who may rock the boat in some way are disposed of, or individuals begin to recognize unhealthy working conditions and jump ship as soon as they find some other place to work instead. And then others are just there for a paycheck and whatever they can get for themselves.

This approach may end up helping the most Hope. Sometimes putting the sword down and talking things out is the best answer.

Thanks @Open Eyes. I think I have offended him because I don't follow many of his suggestions, though I always pump his ego by saying to him "oh, that's a good idea. I like it." But then I do my own thing for the company's success, my success and the health and success of my clients, most importantly. I am sure he does feel disrespected on some level, and I don't mean to insult him. But you're right. He is NOT my boss and therefore I do not have to take direction from him. We were all told he is there for us as a support and consultant. I've been told by HR that he and I are equals in terms of our expertise. So, no I do not have to follow his direction, his ideas or suggestions. They are merely that: ideas and suggestions. In the end, I research and do my due diligence to find the best solutions.

Yes, he and I butt heads. I am sure he hates me. After Friday's meeting, his animosity towards me is evident. He and my boss both hate me. But I cannot help that I have many more years of experience in the field than they do, and the fact that my solutions, approaches and ideas may be better than theirs.

And yes, our CEO is poorly informed of our work, therefore it's easy for him to be dazzled by these two men's arguments that they know best and belong in their roles leading our team.

I think I will ask our business manager tomorrow if she had any additional thoughts or suggestions for me. And I may try to hash this out with my manager. In time... .not now because I am still rip roaring angry and pissed off.

It is SO dysfunctional there. I am starting to become dysfunctional myself as a result. This is not healthy for me whatsoever. I applied for a job on Friday.

I am sorry you have been working in a company that isn't run right and you are facing how others don't even know enough to respect what you contribute. Working in that kind of environment can be bad for anyone's mental health.

This reminds me of when I fell on the ice and injured something near my knee and the pain was horrible so I went to see a doctor. This doctor had this downheartedness about him and I asked him questions about himself and his reaction was "why do you want to know me?". I explained to him that I prefer to know about the individual who is treating me, helps me feel like I am not just a piece of meat but instead a person and that helps calm my ptsd. Anyway, as I got to know him and he opened up, I learned how incredibly unhappy he was in his job and that he was not able to practice medicine the way he wanted to practice, instead his decisions were always met with having to deal with whatever the insurance company would agree to. He told me that if it were up to him he would handle my injury differently and that I would have to wait and deal with pain longer than I should not knowing the extent of my actual injury. He finally said in such a dishearted way how he just had to be grateful that at least he had a job where he could earn money to care for his family. He was NOT a happy man Hope. And he was not able to treat his patients the way he felt they deserved and that made it so he did not want to know them on a more personal level too. Bottom line is Insurance companies don't give a sheet about a person, they only care about the money and they are set up to MAKE money or stay in some kind of budget. Lots of times Hope, the human element isn't an actual priority. It's much harder "now" for a doctor to have a private practice too. Lots of times even though we can see things that "should be", it doesn't always mean we can make this "should be" actually happen or even that our knowledge and experience ends up being respected.

Thanks @Open Eyes. I’m unhappy myself.

I am going to have a heart to heart tomorrow wth our business manager/HR. I’m going to tell her everything I’ve been holding back: that our team lacks strong leadership. That my boss and manager both disrespect me In different ways, and how difficult that makes it for me because they’re both above me and I am powerless. I’m going to tell her that I believe they’re both threatened by me because I have far more experience than they do, and my ideas and solutions may be better than theirs, and it’s because I have years of experience in the field. I am going to lay it out for her. It’s time I speak up at the very least, if I don’t file a formal complaint,I can at least give her greater insight.

What do you think the HR could do about this?

She I know will talk to the CEO. So all I can do is self advocate.

Why wouldn't the best thing to do be to just discuss the outburst directly with the person who had the outburst? Saying the things to HR that you mentioned will likely put a target on your back. Do not ever expect anything you tell HR to be confidential. All the things you said you would say sound very threatening to me. She will summarize it to the CEO that you think the leadership is bad, you are better than everyone else, and your boss and the manager are disrespectful to you. There is nothing solution oriented about that. It's a bunch of complaints that make you look disgruntled. If anything, and you just want to deal with this situation, I would simply tell the HR lady that the manager yelled at you, and that yelling makes you very uncomfortable, and that you would ask that he deal with disagreements in a different manner. You are still standing up for yourself and setting a boundary, but anything more is very risky to your job.

that's not how I was going to approach it, and i will discuss it directly with the person who yelled at me. I was going to mention to HR where the current leadership of my team fails, and I planned on mentioning that they both have strengths but that we need another director on our team to truly lead us to succuss. We are missing another DIrector; they fired that person and never filled the role. HR made it clear to me that our manager is NOT a good mentor of us.

I spoke with my friend there. She says you have to self advocate. I don't know how else I can self advocate except for to mention where the current leadership fails and that we are losing important clients. And the fact of the matter is, I have more experience than both leaders in our field. Why can't I self-advocate and point out what we're doing wrong as a team? HR when I first started wanted me to give my feedback on how the team approaches the field. I have kept my mouth shut all this time. It's not going to be a list of complaints; I am going to offer my solutions as well.

I plan on presenting a well thought out argument for how we can improve our approach with stronger leadership and with another Director on the team. I plan on pointing out where our current leadership falters, while also complimenting their strengths, what I feel is needed, and how we can improve as a team and retain clients better. I am basically going to show her that we need another Director in charge and that I could possibly fill that role.

Hey @Have Hope to play devil's advocate: What happens if all of the things you plan on doing dont work? Then what? Will they hold it against you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Have Hope I plan on presenting a well thought out argument for how we can improve our approach with stronger leadership and with another Director on the team. I plan on pointing out where our current leadership falters, while also complimenting their strengths, what I feel is needed, and how we can improve as a team and retain clients better. I am basically going to show her that we need another Director in charge and that I could possibly fill that role.

It seems you are once again looking to have more power so you can try to run the department better. The problem with this is being able to handle the difficult individuals you already struggle with now. Having others work under you that are difficult and don't respect you can end up being even worse than you have it now.

A well run company has a program set up and takes the time to train new employees to work under certain guidelines. So, in theory what you have in mind isn't a bad thing. The problem you have been facing is that your collegues tend to do things THEIR way and they get all bent out of shape whenever you tell them there is a better way to address the needs of the clients. It's understandable that you get stressed because you KNOW how things are supposed to be handled, the CEO doesn't and neither do these individuals that work with you. And every time you do something the way YOU learned from years of working in that area, your collegues tend to react with disrespect and continue to insist on handling things THEIR own way which as you have noticed leads to losing clients. The mentality of these collegues isn't going to change and you can't just keep going to HR every time they don't listen or react disrespectfully towards you. That means that when clients are lost because you are not being respected, you will end up having to be held accountable. This may be why that position has not been filled and this company has resorted to operating without a director.

Good question! I will have to think on that.