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Default Jan 13, 2020 at 07:16 AM
  #1
This is a saying that my best male friend has always said to me for YEARS:

"The strong give up and move on. The weak give up and stay."

He has said this to me whenever I have found myself in a no-win situation at work.

I've complained on here about the leadership in my company being really poor.

My most positive thinking self thought that I could make some really strong and positive changes in my workplace, IF I were promoted to a leadership role.

Now I am feeling the opposite:

I am seeing that in fact, the poor leadership stems from the CEO and extends to all other leaders. It's in fact, our CEO who is misleading the company. I had this epiphany over the weekend.

He made some very poor decisions when moving certain people into leadership/mgmt roles when they aren't equipped to handle that role.

These people also maneuvered their way into these roles and manipulated the CEO into thinking they were a good fit, when in fact, they lack the knowledge and the experience level to truly lead us to success. We keep losing important business, and they keep telling us "we don't see the value of your services."

Whose job is it to communicate that value? Our CEO's job and the leadership team.

The CEO also doesn't educate himself on all aspects of the services his company provides; therefore, he believes others' lies about their capacity to lead a service line.

The writing is clearly on the wall:

I must leave my company for another job & give up any ideas or hopes of leadership and/or positive change. I am up against far too many obstacles and battles.

I've also been told that my CEO is known to be a joke within our industry. A former colleague confided in me and told me this.

So, I am trying to recall my best friend's saying and words to me:

"The strong give up and move on. The weak give up and stay."

These words really resonate for me right now and apply so well to my current situation. The company keeps losing employees and important business and the company's funds are dwindling.

I must find another job. So I give up. Now I am going to look full-time and just get the hell out. Onwards and upwards, as one of my former bosses used to always say.

It actually feels good to have come to a definitive conclusion on this debate within myself.

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Default Jan 13, 2020 at 11:07 AM
  #2
From everything you have said about your job, I agree with you. Poor management at the top tends to trickle down to the other levels of the organization, making real change very unlikely. In addition, from what I have seen, the most incompetent managers usually don’t realize they are incompetent. Everyone else is the problem in their minds. So, they rarely listen to criticism and are unwilling to change. Of course, this poor management bodes poorly for the company’s future, so even if you do stay, who knows if the company will be around in another year.

At my previous company, for example, IT and upper management implemented a new content management system without getting any input from the editorial staff that were actually going to use it. When that was a disaster, WE were blamed for working more slowly, making the system unstable and not being able to keep up with the expected production levels.

There are a lot of crappy places to work, but there are definitely good places where you will be treated with respect and listened to. At least, these days you can often check out an employer’s reputation online, which could help if you are deciding to accept an offer. Best of luck with the search.
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Default Jan 13, 2020 at 06:48 PM
  #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by rechu View Post
From everything you have said about your job, I agree with you. Poor management at the top tends to trickle down to the other levels of the organization, making real change very unlikely. In addition, from what I have seen, the most incompetent managers usually don’t realize they are incompetent. Everyone else is the problem in their minds. So, they rarely listen to criticism and are unwilling to change. Of course, this poor management bodes poorly for the company’s future, so even if you do stay, who knows if the company will be around in another year.

At my previous company, for example, IT and upper management implemented a new content management system without getting any input from the editorial staff that were actually going to use it. When that was a disaster, WE were blamed for working more slowly, making the system unstable and not being able to keep up with the expected production levels.

There are a lot of crappy places to work, but there are definitely good places where you will be treated with respect and listened to. At least, these days you can often check out an employer’s reputation online, which could help if you are deciding to accept an offer. Best of luck with the search.
All soooo true. That’s what I’m seeing in my company.

I found a great job to apply for today so that’s good.

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Default Jan 13, 2020 at 08:32 PM
  #4
sometimes the strong stay on and make changes. it takes no guts to leave and bail. it takes strength to stay and make changes in the environment.

I think the opposite of the statement is true. the weak bail, the strong stay, make changes and succeed. no one says the changes will be easy or forthcoming, no success story of any value is easy....if to fight for something you believe in is so worth the cause, if you truly believe in it.

don't rely on what other business people say...competitors may not be likely to be honest about ceo's (and honestly to a non-mgt employee..if you are not in the mgt loop you might just be getting bs)

I would suggest that if you do move on, align yourself with employees at your level, not the ceo, etc. nothing can cause employee trust issues then a new employee who doesn't relate to their coworkers but does solely to upper mgt. regartdless of company size.

good luck in your decision
 
 
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Default Jan 13, 2020 at 10:11 PM
  #5
I somewhat agree with @resurgam that it's a bit of a blanket statement. It does take guts to stay through a toxic environment and try and turn it around. It also takes guts to do something new. Neither is better than the other, just what is best FOR YOU.

I would ask yourself though: if you have had a number of bad/toxic work environments, then you are becoming the independent variable in all these situations. Not saying that they aren't toxic or bad, but what are you doing that could be contributing to that or maybe having you perceived in a way that's making the environment bad for you, and what can you change about your approach in a new environment that will make it more successful? The work place never changes. All offices are toxic. It's about what you can do to bring your own positive energy, that others will follow your lead and be positive and supportive.

Please don't think I'm point a finger at you. Rather I'm just saying that we all contribute to the situations we find ourselves in. If you consistently find yourself in a toxic workplace - what is happening that's getting you there? What are you missing during your vetting of the employer?

Just some thoughts as you look for a better employer and interview them to acquire your skills and leadership.

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Default Jan 13, 2020 at 11:31 PM
  #6
I agree with @resurgam's observations about that quote, 100%.
 
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Default Jan 14, 2020 at 06:48 AM
  #7
Um, I wasn't looking for opinions, but nonetheless I got opinions and criticisms, which I happen to disagree with.

This is a mental health support forum isn't it? Not an opinions forum?

@resurgam -- your comments are frequently the opposite of supportive. I'd like to remind you that this is a support forum, and a mental health forum where people have issues and simply seek support. And I disagree with you. My work is causing me mental health issues: that means it's time to leave. I view this as a strength. I don't see it as being strong to remain in a toxic work environment that is rampant with bad leadership, stemming from the CEO downwards, when it's effecting my mental health. I see that as being stupid and naive. It's a sinking ship! Why do you always have to turn things into a negative? You like to poke holes in everything I say and turn it into a negative. You do the opposite of what I would call being supportive. What you do is disempowering. Maybe you should look at yourself and how your own issues interfere with being supportive to others on here. Again, I remind you that this is a support forum, and people expect and want supportive replies. It's written in the guidelines.

@seesaw, It is true that maybe I don't weed through them well enough in the interview process. I know the next time, I will try better in the interview process to weed them out. As you said, most work environments have big problems and toxicity to them. I am simply looking for strong leadership that doesn't try to undermine their employees. There was no way for me to know that when I first interviewed. And I later found out through a former colleague that my boss has thrown many people under the bus in order to get ahead, not just me, but several others. And he's the worst of them all.

I already bring my positive energy to my current work environment. I've stated that I am the most positive on my whole team. I go to work, I do my work, I am a strong team player and i am very positive. What more can be asked of me?

Why do I feel defensive in my own thread? People poked holes in my enthusiasm when I wanted to go after a leadership role in my company, and now people are poking holes when I want to leave and say that it's a strength to leave.

Again, I wasn’t looking for opinions or constructive criticism. I did not ask what people think nor did I ask what can I do better. The premise of this forum is to provide support. To me, that means supporting the OP in their feelings and validating them.

I will walk alone....

I give up, on here and in life.

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Last edited by Have Hope; Jan 14, 2020 at 08:39 AM..
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Default Jan 14, 2020 at 09:35 AM
  #8
i am sorry you feel I am being negative....you post in a forum and you will get replies. because you disagree with my opinion, does not mean it is non-supportive, it just means that it is a different opinion. I post to offer support. other's agreed with my opinion, so I wonder why you did not call them out for agreeing with me, would not their support also be wrong?

honestly people can offer support in many different manners. I re read my post and honestly do not see anything negative within it. I along with others bring a different view to the table, just as you do when you respond to a post. kindly reread my post and tell me where the negative aspect is.

thanks for reminding me to examine my issues. they are in check, but thanks. I've worked in toxic environments, plenty of them, both as a lower level employee and as a upper level manager. I understand the conflict. over 25+ years of employment in both the private and government sectors provide me with a pretty decent overview of the workplace.

look, you posted about a quote. I offered an alternative viewpoint...something to consider perhaps until you can get out. geez, sorry if offereing you something to give you support (as in the strong can stay & survive and change the workplace) seemed to be so offensive to you.

you want to leave your workplace, by all means do it. no one is stopping you. least of all me. again best of luck in your pursuit.
 
 
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Default Jan 14, 2020 at 09:44 AM
  #9
This was negative and unsupportive:

“sometimes the strong stay on and make changes. it takes no guts to leave and bail. it takes strength to stay and make changes in the environment.”

So you’re saying here that I have no guts? That I am weak because I choose to leave? That I’m not strong becauSe I choose to give up on a toxic work environment? That’s a most disempowering statement.

Again if I had wanted opinions I would have asked.

And again perhaps think about what the guidelines are around support and what they mean. Your posts are almost always triggering.

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Default Jan 14, 2020 at 09:59 AM
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I am not saying you have no guts. take a deep breath. I offered a different explanation to the quote. some people opt to leave in adversity, others stay to fight. your choice. fight or flight. basic human nature. you posted a quote, I offered my opinion ..something which when posting to a public forum you tend to get.

I don't aim to trigger you. not my mission. but different people, different opinions, different responses...why are you not upset with those who agreed with my comment? are they not unsupportive either?

I offer my comments in good faith, if they trigger you I am sorry, again, not my goal. and you say my posts are "almost always triggering" how am I to know which ones will or will not bother you?

perhaps some of the triggering is on your side, just a thought. there is no malice on my side..what you read is what I meant. if you don't want responses to your post I don't know what to tell you...you say you only want support, well support looks different to each individual. what can I say.

this is all I am going to add to the issue. I have said more then enough. really there is nothing additional I can add to the issue without being redundant. I wish you luck in all your endeavors, what ever they may be.
 
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Default Jan 14, 2020 at 10:01 AM
  #11
Mods please close this thread. It’s not beneficial for me. Thanks.

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Default Jan 14, 2020 at 10:06 AM
  #12
And I recall doc john’s words: “respect the OP’s requests. And what they’re looking for when they post.”

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Default Jan 14, 2020 at 10:14 AM
  #13
I wasn't trying to undermine you in any way, Have Hope. I just wanted to offer some suggestions as you search so you can find a great new workplace, because I DO support your leaving, and I didn't want you to find yourself in a bad environment again. I think you can tend to be overly positive about situations because you want them to be great places so badly. Like with your current place, it seems you've given them the benefit of the doubt so many times but you've finally decided enough is enough. So I just wanted to offer some ideas to help weed out the bad as you start this new journey. Sorry if that was a buzzkill.

No one here is trying to make you feel bad. We all want the best for you. Hope you can see that.

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Meds I've tried: Prozac, Zoloft, Celexa, Effexor, Remeron, Elavil, Wellbutrin, Risperidone, Abilify, Prazosin, Paxil, Trazadone, Tramadol, Topomax, Xanax, Propranolol, Valium, Visteril, Vraylar, Selinor, Clonopin, Ambien

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Default Jan 14, 2020 at 10:17 AM
  #14
Don't give up, Have Hope. You're doing SO well!

Misunderstandings occur (this is the internet, and we are all sensitive people) but don't let it add to your despair.

As a member who was brought to my knees by a miserable workplace, I applaud your decision.

No offence to the others on this thread. I know, for instance, that Seesaw has had work issues in the past. But in Have Hope's situation, it might be a case of if you haven't experienced it, you can't understand it.
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Default Jan 14, 2020 at 10:33 AM
  #15
Thank you both. I greatly appreciate the support! I’m at work so I can’t type very much.

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Default Jan 14, 2020 at 12:20 PM
  #16
Have Hope, I don't think resurgam's responses were unsupportive. resurgam took the time to offer their opinion based on their own personal experience with toxic work environments. I found their post very respectful of your feelings. That's the beauty of community; the diversity of voices. Not every voice looks or sounds the same. Why should it? If you only want people to tell you what you want to hear, how does that help you grow? Diversity is what makes the world a unique place.

I know with online forums, it's easy to misinterpret context. I agree with resurgam's interpretation of that phrase because I view toxic work environments that way too. Does that mean I don't support you? Absolutely not. What it means is, if I leave a toxic environment, it's only because everything I tried to do to make positive changes has failed, so leaving is both the last resort and best option.

If you don't want opinions, then posting may not be a good activity for you. Because, when you post a thread on any public forum, people with diverse opinions will respond. How do you respond to people in your offline life, when you ask them for advice and they give you an opinion that you disagree with, or feel is unsupportive? Online, you can put that member on ignore until your feelings cool off. But, I do worry that your not managing your expectations well by expecting anyone who responds, to only tell you what you want to hear. If you open yourself up to the that you can choose to not respond to people's posts you take offense or, or disagree with, without confronting them, then I think you will feel more relaxed about posting. Use the ignore button. That's what it's here for.
 
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Default Jan 14, 2020 at 12:22 PM
  #17
I just don’t want to feel defensive and I got defensive. I appreciate both your last replies @seesaw and @purple, Violet,Blue.

I’m typically very self critical as it is, and I’ve been very down on myself lately. I come on here for support, to feel validated and reassured. That’s all I’m looking for.

I feel good about my decision to leave my company. Once I realized that the CEO himself is a bad leader, I realized there’s too many battles to fight in my current work environment to truly succeed there. And they’re failing as a company. The writing is on the wall.

I found a Director level role for which I qualify and will apply! I’m excited about the prospect of leAving. And most certainly I will apply any lessons learned going forward.

Thanks again you two. I really do appreciate the kindness.

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Default Jan 14, 2020 at 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Have Hope View Post
And I recall doc john’s words: “respect the OP’s requests. And what they’re looking for when they post.”
Ah, well resurgam did respect your request. But you disagree with resurgam. That's the difference. resurgam didn't post intentionally to hurt your feelings.

I don't think there was any misunderstanding. I think it's unrealistic to preface your threads with, "I'm only looking for support." Not everyone's views will align with yours and not everyone's going to agree with your approach to problems, in their effort to offer you their approach to your problem, which could be different. Different doesn't mean bad.

Creativity in problem solving requires diversity. If everyone tried to solve the problem the same way, the problem can't get solved. Does that make sense? When communities come together to solve a problem, everyone has input. Some of that input is relevant and helpful and some may not be. But, brainstorming ways to solve a problem in small or large groups, often means there will be a lot of different opinions. And different opinions offer broader perspectives.
 
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Default Jan 14, 2020 at 12:28 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by StreetcarBlanche View Post
Have Hope, I don't think resurgam's responses were unsupportive. resurgam took the time to offer their opinion based on their own personal experience with toxic work environments. I found their post very respectful of your feelings. That's the beauty of community; the diversity of voices. Not every voice looks or sounds the same. Why should it? If you only want people to tell you what you want to hear, how does that help you grow? Diversity is what makes the world a unique place.

I know with online forums, it's easy to misinterpret context. I agree with resurgam's interpretation of that phrase because I view toxic work environments that way too. Does that mean I don't support you? Absolutely not. What it means is, if I leave a toxic environment, it's only because everything I tried to do to make positive changes has failed, so leaving is both the last resort and best option.

If you don't want opinions, then posting may not be a good activity for you. Because, when you post a thread on any public forum, people with diverse opinions will respond. How do you respond to people in your offline life, when you ask them for advice and they give you an opinion that you disagree with, or feel is unsupportive? Online, you can put that member on ignore until your feelings cool off. But, I do worry that your not managing your expectations well by expecting anyone who responds, to only tell you what you want to hear. If you open yourself up to the that you can choose to not respond to people's posts you take offense or, or disagree with, without confronting them, then I think you will feel more relaxed about posting. Use the ignore button. That's what it's here for.
Please read the guidelines again. And please re-read my prior posts.

I did not ask for opinions, or for constructive criticism.

This is not just a public forum like reddit. It’s a mental health forum foremost. I did not ask for unsolicited opinions. I come here looking for SUPPORT AND VALIDATION.

doc John has stated that everyone needs to respect the OP’s requests for what kind of support they seek.

I am going to request to close this thread. Thank you to those who have been supportive.

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Default Jan 14, 2020 at 01:07 PM
  #20
Thread closed by OP request. Please remember that this is a support community and to honor an OP’s wishes about what they want from a thread.

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